Customs Question

[takinitslow]

So a friend who i have known for a few years now asked me if i could bring him a small tv the next time i come. He said he would pay for it which is fine. So i asked him about bringing it into the country through customs, he told me all i needed to do was make it my carry on. I am just looking for info on if i am going to get charged import tax or if i can say its a gift or what? Any info would be appriciated.

[kim&betty]

We brought a 13" color TV to a friend, was packed in a large duffle bag, in our checked luggage. Not a flat screen an old school big 13". You can get good ones at a thrift store for about $20 or less usually, get a receipt, and customs if you declare it would be $10 or there about. For trips #2 and beyond (about 20 lost track) we always go through the nothing to declare line, no problem as of yet. First trip to Ja we brought a large suitcase full of school supplies for youts. We went through the declare line, MISTAKE! The customs officer couldn't understand why we would bring a suitcase full of supplies for children we had never met. He didn't charge us any duty, but he did try to shake me down for several packs of cigarrettes, I refused - very tense and un-irie, my wife was intimidated to the point of giving him a pack of her marlboro's from her purse, I was pissed. From then on I have nothing to declare, it its all my stuff, for my personal use, no matter what is in the extra bags.

[Sweetness]

You can buy small TVs in Jamaica for comparable prices - I would just do that when you arrive instead. Not many basic items that can't be found in JA.

Also, I have done similar for long time friends but never got paid in full for my purchase - partial$ but not all - just my experience though. If you do bring one, you will need your receipt and pay customs for the item. They do not really like people bringing items in for re-sale from my experience with them.

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

The others are correct. If you declare it as a gift - that is what duties are paid on.
It was lucky the school supplies were not charged duty.

In the very slight chance your bags are inspected - the TV is just for your personal use. For instance because the hotel you are staying at does not have them.

[SweetSue]

Several years ago, a friend of mine was bringing down a big suitcase full of school supplies which she had promised in advance. SO when she got banged for a $25 overweight luggage charge, she paid it. However, insult got added to injury when going thru customs (voluntarily declared) and they charged her some ridiculous duty fee because 1) they couldn't believe someone would bring all of that down just to GIVE away 2) despite receipts, they couldn't believe it all came from dollar stores. Its a shame her good deed got punished... She now packs less and doesn't declare a thing. :(

[Rob]

The others are correct. If you declare it as a gift - that is what duties are paid on.
It was lucky the school supplies were not charged duty.

In the very slight chance your bags are inspected - the TV is just for your personal use. For instance because the hotel you are staying at does not have them.

Sorry about singling out this one post, but giving advice to LIE when visiting another country is not the wisest advice in the world. Each country has their own laws, and lying on customs/immigration forms, which are official government documents is hardly advisable. It is against the law, and you are subject to substantial fines as well as jail time. In simple words DO NOT LIE on government forms.

The vastly smarter advice is Sweetness' take on things. Why are you bringing down a TV in the first place? Why not buy one here. At Courts you can get a brand new flat screen TV for under $200us. If you buy it here in Jamaica - you are not only NOT breaking the law by lying on your customs/immigration forms, but you are also helping out the local economy by purchasing the TV here.

If you want to buy a used TV, there are several shops in Negril and Sav La Mar where you can get one.

Please do not heed the horribly bad advice to lie on official government forms when entering ANY country...

[captaind]

I'll second what Rob said. Lying on a government document carries more penalty than any amount of duty you would pay.

This is true in the US as well. When my captains file their paperwork the penalty for falsifying a government application is 100,000 and/or 5 years in jail.

If you say it's for your own use you'd better be able to prove how.

[RockRobster]

Unless there is more than....say....$20 difference in price, which it doesn't seem there is....why don't they just buy it in JA?

Never lie to any government. If they catch you, your credibility is now worthless so any excuses will be met with rolling eyes. Then comes the fun. Confiscation. Consternation. Incarceration. Financial Deprivation. Deportation. Oh, I almost forgot....Humiliation.

How good of a friend is this? Are you SURE they have the $$ for the TV? If they do have the $$, why do YOU have to buy it and bring it?

[Delta]

Takin - Personally I would say pass on the tv for no other reason then luggage fees. You have a good heart bringing a tv for someone but is there another way to can assist (again the luggage fees!) LOL

[SweetSue]

Unless there is more than....say....$20 difference in price, which it doesn't seem there is....why don't they just buy it in JA?

Never lie to any government. If they catch you, your credibility is now worthless so any excuses will be met with rolling eyes. Then comes the fun. Confiscation. Consternation. Incarceration. Financial Deprivation. Deportation. Oh, I almost forgot....Humiliation.

How good of a friend is this? Are you SURE they have the $$ for the TV? If they do have the $$, why do YOU have to buy it and bring it?

WELL SAID & VERY GOOD POINT. ALSO - Good to know Rob is watching the posts and ready to give good advice. Personally, the only "gifts" I bring down are small personal items that may not be readily found on the island and also for my own use. Otherwise, I do a lot of local shopping.... :)

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

Read my exact words again. I thought before I posted and chose my words carefully - so I would NOT be telling them to lie. I only gave the OP a valid reason they would bring a small, used TV that would not subject them to duty.

If they decide at the end of their vacation, they don't want to bring it back - for instance, not enough room in the suitcase with all the souveniers - that does not mean they lied on any forms when entering the country. As long as they haven't actually made up their minds to leave it, when filling out the forms, they are not lying.

As far as prices, I'm in this exact position for my upcoming trip - trying to decide whether to bring down a TV for my home in Negril or buy in Jamaica. Believe me, I've been trying to find on-line prices for TVs in Jamaica - there is very little on-line info. Courts is one of the few - but still very limited. I am seeing prices at least double what I can buy for in U.S. So even paying the extra bag fee to make it one of my checked bags - it looks like I am saving $100's. Granted this is for a new flat screen TV, not a used 19" old-style tube TV.

If someone can definitely tell me where there is an electronics store between MoBay and Negril, or Negril and Sav, where I can get a 32" or so TV for about $300US - that would save me a big hassle. I'll buy you lunch.

[Sweetness]

Ohio - they are re-selling the TV. Its not for their use.

I bought an "inbetween" 17" model (not old but not flat screen) for $100 in Negril. Hopefully Rob or other local can help more with something that large. I think Sav or Mobay wil have what you want in your range for sure. Most hotels have big flat screens now so they may be able to give you a tip on where to get one. Keith at Westender might be a good contact to network with.......

[RockRobster]

Ohio-let me make sure I understand your last post. You have a home in JA. You want to bring a new TV to JA for your JA house because you can save money buying it in USA. And, as part of the savings, you wont be paying JA taxes on the purchase. The TV isn't destined to leave the island when you do. Isn't this the exact scenario why you should be charged duty on the TV?

[takinitslow]

Thanks for the advice. I think i will be passing on bringing it not worth the hassel. And not willing to break any laws to be nice.

[Rob]

Read my exact words again. I thought before I posted and chose my words carefully - so I would NOT be telling them to lie. I only gave the OP a valid reason they would bring a small, used TV that would not subject them to duty.

If they decide at the end of their vacation, they don't want to bring it back - for instance, not enough room in the suitcase with all the souveniers - that does not mean they lied on any forms when entering the country. As long as they haven't actually made up their minds to leave it, when filling out the forms, they are not lying.

As far as prices, I'm in this exact position for my upcoming trip - trying to decide whether to bring down a TV for my home in Negril or buy in Jamaica. Believe me, I've been trying to find on-line prices for TVs in Jamaica - there is very little on-line info. Courts is one of the few - but still very limited. I am seeing prices at least double what I can buy for in U.S. So even paying the extra bag fee to make it one of my checked bags - it looks like I am saving $100's. Granted this is for a new flat screen TV, not a used 19" old-style tube TV.

If someone can definitely tell me where there is an electronics store between MoBay and Negril, or Negril and Sav, where I can get a 32" or so TV for about $300US - that would save me a big hassle. I'll buy you lunch.

I read your words very carefully and the original poster stated quite clearly that the TV was not for their personal use and they were bringing it down to resell to their friend. They had already made up their mind. Your alternative suggestion as to why they would be bringing it down is not the truth in this situation. To suggest they use it amounts to asking them to lie to the Jamaican government.

Please dont think that the customs agents are not aware of the various scams that visitors, expats and even returning Jamaicans try to use to justify their intention to get around the laws. They are fully aware of them and have ways to deal with them. In this case, should they not believe the "tv for my own personal use in a room with no tv" scenario, they will often make the visitor pay duty on the tv, then ask them to keep the receipt and present it when they return to customs WITH the tv for a refund. If the visitor claims they decided to leave it behind or claims it was "stolen", then no refund is given.

As for the TVs available on the island, I would check Courts, Mega Mart and ATL once you are on the island - all are on the way to Negril from the Montego Bay airport. Not all their products are on their websites. They always have other items in stock that they do not mention on the internet. We saw several new flat screenTVs under $200us in the stores just last week - and none are listed on the websites.

As pointed out by RockRobster, bringing in a new tv for your home here in Negril is exactly why duty is charged on items. To get a duty free exemption you would have to fill out more government forms and show proof of property ownership, your government issued TRN as well as all the receipts for the various items you are bringing in. And please note, if you do plan to live in another country, it is always wise to actively support the economy of that country. It will be to your future benefit to help the economy grow.

[Lola]

Rob posted: "As for the TVs available on the island, I would check Courts, Mega Mart and ATL once you are on the island - all are on the way to Negril from the Montego Bay airport."

What store is ATL, is that the full store name or short for....? And what town is it in?

Thanks for posting the availability and approximate costs, info much appreciated!

[Accompong]

Rob posted: "As for the TVs available on the island, I would check Courts, Mega Mart and ATL once you are on the island - all are on the way to Negril from the Montego Bay airport."

What store is ATL, is that the full store name or short for....? And what town is it in?

Thanks for posting the availability and approximate costs, info much appreciated!
I believe it stands for Appliance Traders Limited in Kingston.
Peace and Guidance

[BCBud]

Attached is info on ATL's store in Montego Bay (including map for its location)
http://www.blurtlive.com/business/Appliance-Traders-Ltd4

[Lola]

Wonderful, thanks!

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

Ohio-let me make sure I understand your last post. You have a home in JA. You want to bring a new TV to JA for your JA house because you can save money buying it in USA. And, as part of the savings, you wont be paying JA taxes on the purchase. The TV isn't destined to leave the island when you do. Isn't this the exact scenario why you should be charged duty on the TV?

I am marrying a Jamaican and establishing myself and a home down there. The plan is to do what typical snowbirds from Ohio do, except in JA not Florida - live in Jamaica 6mo when it's too cold in Ohio and live in Ohio 6mo when it's too hot in Jamaica. So the TV is for my personal use in Jamaica - not to sell or gift. It's my understanding this is the case where one is not expected to pay duty (when moving personal goods to live in JA)?

If I need to wait until married and established in JA with home, TRN, etc - to be entitled to bring household goods to JA exempt of duty, that is what I am asking about. Or would only my wife be able to return to JA with such goods exempt of duty. I know they have a pretty good limit each trip - I think is either $US600 or $800. But what about me with a TRN?

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

...They had already made up their mind. Your alternative suggestion as to why they would be bringing it down is not the truth in this situation. To suggest they use it amounts to asking them to lie to the Jamaican government.

I'll second your advice on this much - don't do illegal things, especially in a foreign country. You're talking to a guy who doesn't smoke in JA and declared coffee and spices when coming back into the US my first trip - because I didn't know for sure whether you had to or not. I am one who believes in following the rules - but also in taking advantage of flaws in the rules. Note I am not saying break the rules, I am saying follow them to the letter - so strictly to the letter that they actually benefit you.

In JA they have red tape and rules that are insane. When you think about it - these rules are almost comical. In this case we are talking about, it's not what is in your baggage that determines whether it is declarable, it's what is in your head. Since if you intend to return with it, it's your personal possession and there is no duty. But the exact same item, if you intend to gift it - you should declare it and pay duty. So I say don't lie about a reason - just truly change your reason. Nothing says you can't change your mind later. That's why I think this is insane.

So I admit I could have expanded on my reply - like I tried in the 2nd post - and what I said just above. I could have said explicitly I was telling the OP to change his mind on why he was bringing it down - since that's all it takes to be able to be within the rules. But I took a short cut in saying what is the same thing - if you read my exact words - so I'll take my lumps. Everyting criss, mon.

But that might only go as far as living with yourself about being a good person. I also agree if your item is found, you might have a hard time convincing the customs guy you're being honest it's your personal item. I don't know what they do in that case - do you pay duty and keep your paperwork, then collect a refund when you leave the island taking the item with you, proving to them you were telling the truth all along? Doubtful.

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

Lastly - too many posters to mention everyone who posted with info on TV retailers. Thanks all.
I will look into ATL in MoBay and MegaMart. I already also familiar with Bashco, which I think might be a source - they show a TV in their online ad, but no prices.
I know there are big shopping malls in MoBay - that's what I think is my best bet. But if retailers pay the same duty on imports as we do - I am expecting prices to be more than double.

I am VERY familiar with Courts - not in a good way. (my fiance financed a refrigerator from them - ended up costing her about triple the purchase price if she had not financed) It is essentially a rent-to-own place and many Jamaicans end up stuck in financed hell - making payments and late fees on already over-priced goods way past their intended end-date.
They are the only source I could find with prices online. Their 32" TV is about $675US - more than double US prices. That's why I was hoping to bring one down, instead.

So with all the hassles I know would happen bringing down a TV - I'll even change my offer for lunch. I'll settle for even a not brand new TV or even not a flat-screen - just has to be a 30" or larger, "gently used" or new but with a mfg date in 2010 or later, with a good picture.
But I can't take "try StoreX", or "I heard about StoreY". I need someone to tell me they were in StoreZ and such-and-such Brand and Model# TV were there costing $Jxxx. (I know there is a Bashco in Sav)
But I don't think the price difference vs US is just $20US or so - I think it will $100's.

Or does anyone know how much the duty would be on a TV with a receipt showing it cost $300. My experience with electronics thru the JA Post Office Customs was duty was about 100% of item's value. That's why I was hoping to bring one in duty-free.

[Sweetness]

Ohio--- ?? OP didn't need a TV. How cool that you are going to split your living - it is my dream too at retirement. I am still learning the runnings in JA and how to respectfully coexist within the wonderful culture.

Last reach I went thru the nothing to declare line as always but because I had large suitcases she made me go thru the other line and get completely searched. It was nerve racking - was questioned on every item I had. I was staying a month so brought extra kitchen items, etc. Had a few color books for the kids I love there (no duty but noted something like "culture" on the paper). I also took down some biz cards for a taxi driver friend - slipped my mind that there might be duty on them and she was puzzled and pissed I didn't admit I had them when she asked what I had in my bags - how much did they cost? - she let me go w/no duty but I was not allowed to even touch anyting in my bags during the search and she meant BIDNESS. Whew - only time I have ever had to do this.

For me, only reason I would carry down things not available in JA (which is not much) or that I prefer (personal items) is if moving there and then I would prob send down a small container - I hate traveling already and the less stress the better for me anyway.

Hey where are you in Ohio? I grew up in Cleveland (Parma, Olmstead Falls, Strongsville). Dad retired from NASA.

[Sweetness]

Duh - I see from your profile you are in Dayton. Disregard my question.

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

Hey where are you in Ohio? I grew up in Cleveland (Parma, Olmstead Falls, Strongsville). Dad retired from NASA.

Sweetness - thanks for the Customs story. You're not the only one I heard being told to go thru the other line because of bigger bags than they thought reasonable.
How much convincing did it take that they were YOUR pots and pans - and did they ask if you were going to take them with you when you left?
It's funny you mention the business cards. I got some for my fiance (has a nail shop) in JA and they were outrageously expensive for like just the first 100 - they said others later would be cheaper because the die was already made???? But instead I brought a box of a 1000 down next trip for half the cost. Until you mentioned it now, I didn't think of them even being declared for duty.
I know a few people who put stuff in storage so don't have to take so much every trip - wonder how customs handles that?

Luckily now, I have a place to leave the bulky stuff - pool floaties, snorkel gear, rolling cooler, radio, beach towels, some clothes,... - all brought down one trip at a time. This trip WAS to be the TV - LOL.

Oh yeah - I am from suburb on South side of Dayton, Centerville. But grew up on a farm in Clinton County - a little to the south-east. Wilmington and Blanchester are towns there.
With my previous job I traveled to Cleveland area a lot - great deli's. You must have loved Drew Carey when his show was on. (I loved that Parma song-and-dance they did)

[Sweetness]

LOL yep I loved that show and at the end of the dance they all yelled OHIO......I got to go up last yr and forgot how beautiful the countryside is there.......but I digress

Yes I was grilled about ever single thing in both suitcases. the Kitchen stuff I told the truth and she raised her eyebrows but kept going on and on (did make me show my hotel info showing I was staying a mth). Lucky for me that a JA local was getting it worse than me at the table next to me (go figure?) so she was busy yelling at him. I felt lucky I didn't get charged for anything but did not mind paying if needed. Best of luck as you transition to paradise!

[Rob]

In JA they have red tape and rules that are insane. When you think about it - these rules are almost comical. In this case we are talking about, it's not what is in your baggage that determines whether it is declarable, it's what is in your head. Since if you intend to return with it, it's your personal possession and there is no duty. But the exact same item, if you intend to gift it - you should declare it and pay duty. So I say don't lie about a reason - just truly change your reason. Nothing says you can't change your mind later. That's why I think this is insane.

OB,

It comes down to simply being honest. If you bring an electronic item down for your personal use, customs expects you to take it back with you. If you do not take it back with you, this is not what is keeping with the "personal use" concept (please dont confuse this with something that you can "use up" like soap, shampoo, etc). So yes, if you fail to bring back an electronic item that was declared as "personal use", whether you want to believe it or not, you are breaking the law.

Jamaica is NOT the only country that does this. There are restrictions in the US and Canada as well for items that come in the respective countries. There is nothing comical about it - the rules are set up to protect each country's economy.

[Rob]

I am VERY familiar with Courts - not in a good way. (my fiance financed a refrigerator from them - ended up costing her about triple the purchase price if she had not financed) It is essentially a rent-to-own place and many Jamaicans end up stuck in financed hell - making payments and late fees on already over-priced goods way past their intended end-date.
They are the only source I could find with prices online. Their 32" TV is about $675US - more than double US prices. That's why I was hoping to bring one down, instead.

OB,

If you choose the financing option with Courts, as with all unsecured loans anywhere on the planet, you will pay very high interest fees. This is not a Jamaican thing, or a Courts thing - but a simple economic reality.

In Jamaica, Courts opened up an option for people that was never available before. If you dont have the money to pay for something you want, and you really want that item, at least you have the option to get it at Courts. Most places this is not even an option. If you dont keep up on your payments the item get repo'd. You can go upstairs at the Courts in Sav and see all the items that have "Manager reduced" prices on them since they have been used and not fully paid for - they are the repo'd items. The financing "fees" cover the cost of all people who dont keep up their payments. You may not consider it fair, but when you dont have the money, the only other option would be not ever getting that item. Is that more fair - to never be able to have the item?

You want to bring down a TV to save money you would spend in Jamaica. By buying the item in Jamaica, you would help out the local economy. By helping the local economy, you help to create more jobs and higher wages. By creating more jobs and having higher wages, more people are able to pay for items that they would have to finance at present. By having more people be able to pay for items will increase the number of items available, increases competition and reduce the prices.

You are not the only one trying to save money by not supporting the Jamaican economy when you bring items into Jamaica. When you add all these people up, it does have a major impact on the local economy. So go ahead and save the money, but please remember that you are contributing to the lower employment, lower wages and lower economic status of Jamaica, a country that you say you have a home in. And you are helping to keep Courts in the business of offering a rent-to-own option....

[treefrog]

Agree 100% . Well said!

[SweetSue]

Well said Rob. You give us all something to think about. And I am sure it will affect my thinking about what I do or do not bring down in the future.

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

Believe me, doing construction on a house and planning a wedding to a Jamaican - I support the JA economy more than you'll ever know. LOL.

This is way off-topic from OP, but I'll get out my soapbox for this one reply.

Yes, all gov'ts protect their economy with tariffs - but the usual amounts are a small percent of the value of the item. There are political fights all the time in the USA whether or not to impose them, or to raise them - trying to balance protecting domestic sources vs harming the people by artificially inflating prices. It's the age-old balance of how high do you set prices before you start losing customers. Whole economic classes are taught on this "economic elasticity". If private industry gets it wrong, they lose customers to competitors - if gov't gets it wrong, there are no competitors, but they cause a black market to form. You're starting to see it with cigarettes in the USA (I'm a non-smoker, just talking economics not efficacy).

My opinion is JA has gone way past that line. In Jamaica, the gov't has such bureacracy and adds such a high duty (I have experienced it at over 100% the value of the item with electronics) - that the gov't is standing in the way of improving their economy. Thoses tariffs, taxes, duties, etc are NOT just on us tourists bringing down goods - it's also on the imports sold by retailers. The prices on electronics are double and triple the costs in USA - and those prices aren't charged only to tourists, Jamaicans have to pay them too - that is hardly helping the people. (I focus on electronics because that is what my experience in JA has been with)

Improving their economy and providing jobs would help their people more than any retail jobs protected by tariffs. And around the world, it's lower taxes and smaller bureacracies where economies are flourishing. Yes the gov't needs funds to run - but if they eliminated their excessive bureacracy, they would have a much less bloated gov't to fund.

Back to the black market, In JA you see it with all the corruption in the system. Because the system is so-filled with rules, red-tape, and fees - it's almost become part of the official system for many bureacrats to just fish for "fees to expedite" the process (most of the world calls it bribes). There is so much corruption - the gov't doesn't trust itself to have just one official handle a transaction. Try looking up the rules to bring in imports legally - like a JA business would do. It's why you have to go to agency A for one form, agency B for some approval, agency C to pay the fee, back to agency A with the stamps on the form from B and C - it's mind-boggling. I know the gov't is trying to clean that up, but their first step should be to eliminate what causes that corruption - excessive bureacracy and fees.

To sum it up, I just feel the lion's share of the hiked up prices in JA is due to the duty (aka taxes) and other fees the gov't adds to get their "cut" - not to protect domestic sources or help the people. If I thought paying these dutys was helping the people - I wouldn't complain about it so much. I just feel I am being forced to contribute to keeping the corruption going - and is actually hurting the people in the long run, not helping. I could be wrong, but is my opinion for the above reasons.

This pet peave against paying these taxes/duties has to be put in context. I try to do my part by giving directly to the people - and hate so much giving it to the gov't. When there, I tip my hotel maid every day what my fiance says is too much. I go out of my way to pay people who want to do some service or task for me - that I could really do myself. I would rather do that than just giving to the guys asking for a handout.

Soapbox is put away again.

[Lola]

Buying there creates more jobs (agreed) but Higher wages --???

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

If you bring an electronic item down for your personal use, customs expects you to take it back with you. If you do not take it back with you, this is not what is keeping with the "personal use" concept (please dont confuse this with something that you can "use up" like soap, shampoo, etc). So yes, if you fail to bring back an electronic item that was declared as "personal use", whether you want to believe it or not, you are breaking the law.

I know about that half of the customs rules - tourists bringing down personal items on vacation. Most questions and answers on this board are focused on that category - for obvious reasons.

But there is a whole other set of customs rules if you are moving there (even half-time) and bringing your household items there. When doing that you are obviously not going to take the items back off the island when you travel back-and-forth between USA and JA. I thought some of the people on this board might have gone thru that and could explain some of THOSE rules to me. I am sure I can't just explain to the customs official that I am engaged and am building a house and bringing down goods that are for my personal use only - not gifts or for resale. I know once married, and we both are eventually "legal" in each others countries - I will be able. But is there something I can do in between those two conditions?

Some people on this board have moved to JA without marrying a Jamaican. I was hoping to get benefit of their experience with customs rules. Or from people who were in the same condition for a while I am in - engaged and/or building a house and therefore wanting to bring down household items - before becoming "official" with a TRN, etc. Maybe there's a bright line - nothing doing before marriage vs all allowed after marriage. But Jamaica just seems like it always has gray areas - if you know where to go and fill out the right forms. That's what I am asking about.

[SweetSue]

Just so you know, some things don't have to wait. You can get a TRN now w/o being a full time resident or citizen. It is your first step towards being able to do business, i.e. open a bank account, buy property, pay taxes, etc. in Jamaica.

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

and re Courts. Believe me I blamed my fiance more for going to Courts than Courts for doing business - no one forces you to go there. She bought something there the first day she started a job that was going to take 3yrs to pay. Then within 2 weeks things turned out she couldn't work for that boss anymore. And you know how hard jobs of any kind are to find in JA. I just don't know how Courts could ever have approved her credit.

But in relating that experience, I heard the same over and over again from many others. It just seems that is Courts business model (as it is here in the US with other RTO businesses). They are setup as place of last resort for people who really don't have the money or good credit to afford something. And their prices and financing terms reflect that. But hey, I'm a free market guy - so where there's a demand a business has every right to form and try to meet it. I was more thinking their prices were too high - that they were not an option as a place for me to consider buying the TV that I have been talking about - than they shouldn't be an option for others.

I know it's old fashioned, but what ever happened to denying yourself pleasure in the short-term for a long-term goal, and save up ahead of time for these type of purchases. They would avoid the high prices and finance costs. But hey, the whole US economy went in the tank because I am in the minority on that opinion.

OK I realize I got my soapbox out again - but last time (I hope).

[Rob]

Buying there creates more jobs (agreed) but Higher wages --???

Lola,

Simple economics. When there are less jobs available, there are more people looking for each job, so the employers can offer lower wages for each job. When there are more jobs available, there are less people looking for each available job, which makes more competition to find that new employee and that leads to higher wages.

[Rob]

They are setup as place of last resort for people who really don't have the money or good credit to afford something. And their prices and financing terms reflect that. But hey, I'm a free market guy - so where there's a demand a business has every right to form and try to meet it. I was more thinking their prices were too high - that they were not an option as a place for me to consider buying the TV that I have been talking about - than they shouldn't be an option for others.

I know it's old fashioned, but what ever happened to denying yourself pleasure in the short-term for a long-term goal, and save up ahead of time for these type of purchases. They would avoid the high prices and finance costs. But hey, the whole US economy went in the tank because I am in the minority on that opinion.

OB,

The US economy went into the tank for a few more reasons that just the one opinion you mentioned, but no need to get into that here.

But for the Jamaican issue about Courts that you mentioned, when the average wage is around us$50 for a 40 hour work week, the Courts rent to own plan may be the only option should someone want to own something that they want to have to make their life more comfortable. Perhaps it would be wiser to forego any such purchases, but human nature being what it is - people do like to make their lives a bit more comfortable. I am sure that some people feel that Jamaicans should not have anything that they cannot directly afford, but not everyone feels that way.

A note about the duties charged on electronic items, only the items that are considered luxury items attract a high duty - which is exactly the same as in the USA. The difference here being once again the definition of luxury items. When you consider the average wage of us$50 per week, a big screen tv is considered a luxury so they do attract a higher duty.

Please note that for years there was no duty whatsoever on computers and related items. There was none because the Jamaican government realized how important they were to the economy and the education system and people needed every single break they could get to be able to afford them. Only in the past few years has there been duty on computers, and even at present the duty on a computer is between 10-20% - well less than the 100% you claim there is on electronic items.

Perhaps the electronic items you have experience with are considered luxury items. But still, why bring them in the first place? If you buy them here, which you can, you will be helping the local economy grow. This will make less need for the duty to be charged by the government as there will be more jobs and higher wages and more competition. You can rationalize your wanting to save the money any way you desire, but please do not think you are helping the local economy when you bring in items to the island that can be purchased here.

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

First re Courts - I didn't say they should have to forgo altogether, just would be better to practice a little delayed gratification. Save up first and so avoid paying high prices and finance costs - they would be SOOO much better off in the long run. Again, I realize I'm in the minority on that practice, too. And I know saving is hard when you're poor - and the finance payment is a self-imposed forced payment. But doing that they are only digging themselves deeper in - not getting out of - poverty.

Glad to know that high duty isn't uniform - and there's at least some thought, like with computers. For instance I found construction material is more expensive, but nowhere near double. That's the kind of info I've been wanting to know. I know that some things aren't so over-priced as electronics - so didn't think the high duty was on everything, but it's like pulling teeth to find out any reliable info.

For instance, after these discussions, I tried to find out what the duty would be on that $300 TV bringing it thru customs and declaring it. Noone on this board seems to know, and these boardies are the most experienced people at Jamaican travel/immigration I know of. It's ranged from a guess it would only be a small $40-50US duty, to it would be so much that it would be cheaper to pay the $675US JA retail price I found. So I turned to several hours searching the internet. You would think the JA gov't would make that duty rates available on the internet - but it's not. I found you have to write to an agency in Kingston and they will mail you the schedule of customs duties. The gov't does a pretty good job at posting some things on the internet - like fiance visa info - so why not the customs info?

My sour experience with electronics duty was the following. I mailed several batches of developed pictures to my then just-girlfriend in JA after my 5-week trip. So she could see them on her electronic picture frame, too, I also copied them to 4 small 2GB SD-chips and included them with the pictures. Normal activity here in the US, right? Well, ignorant me back then, I had no idea that would be subject to duty. Or that there even existed a Jamaica Postal Customs Agent who's job is to open packages and assess the duty on things mailed to Jamaicans from abroad. They told my girlfriend she would have to pay $6000J to get this package. The SD chips cost me only about $7US each here, and they wanted $1500J duty for each!!! (the developed pics were duty-free) If I had known, I would have included the receipts to show the cost wasn't as high as they were valuing them based on JA prices for SD chips. My girlfriend argued and after a couple days and several trips to the PO, finally got them to come down to $4000J - but still. I wasn't trying to save money and buy US instead of JA in that case - just send my GF copies of our vacation pics. I was pretty much ignorant of JA duty before that, and assumed it was just some small percent of the value, but was rudely awakened to it then. Lucky that even though a high percent, in that case a small-value item. Imagine if I had unwittingly mailed a $200US picture frame, not knowing of the high-duty on electronics - they might have wanted $200-400US to get it.

So, apparantly SD-chips are luxury items, too - and about triple the price in JA than here in the U.S. because of the duty. They don't manufacture SD-chips in JA, or even the U.S. as far as I know - I think they all are shipped over from Asia. Us tourists for the most part bring our photo supplies with us. So mainly only the Jamaicans pay this duty when they buy SD-chips. By making Jamaicans pay triple the world market price when they want to take pictures on SD-chips, how is this protecting the JA economy and helping the JA people - rather than the gov't just ripping them off? I know the govt has to fund itself thru taxes, but you would think the normal GCT tax would be about the right amount for that.

You've convinced me that the duty on what tourists bring in on vacation IS good and protects their economy. But definitely not the duty on imported goods mainly Jamaicans would be buying for themselves - like SD-chips and TVs that don't have a mfg base in Jamaica to protect. Us tourists buying the occassional luxury item as a gift would be more likely, too.

It's only the duty on imported goods for retail sale (not the tourist duty at the airport) making a $300 TV cost $675 in a JA store that had me even considering bringing down a TV. Without that duty causing the excessive price, I would have just planned to go to a JA store and buy it. That import duty (again on JA imports, not the tourist one at the airport) is what caused me to think about other options than NOT buying in JA. And probably why so many people on vacation bring so much stuff with them, rather than just buying it in JA - which would be so much easier. Even stuff they are allowed to bring without declaring, like sunblock, bug spray, shampoo - liquids are such a hassle traveling by plane now. I'd love to come with just a carry-on bag and not pay the checked bag fees. But they are so much higher in JA, it's worth it to bring them - and JA loses out on those sales.

[Rob]

OB,

For someone saying that they are building a home in Jamaica, I am a bit confused by your comments.

"Normal activity here in the US, right?" - okay, lets say it was normal in the US at the time. Why would you conclude that this same activity is equally "normal" in a different country? You are comparing the 20th century's last remaining super power with a small, developing island country. Why would anyone expect that every activity be equally "normal" in both countries. There are codes, fashions, cultural, driving, cooking, musical, sporting, etc differences between Jamaica and the USA. Why jump to the conclusion the Jamaican government is ripping off its own people just because you notice there is a difference in a certain activity in Jamaica than the US? Isnt it possible that maybe you just didnt know the reason for the difference?

I did find it interesting that you did note that there was no duty at all on the photos. Hmmm, could this possibly be more "normal activity" in Jamaica at the time than an electronic picture frame was back when this "sour experience" occurred?

Which brings me to my next thought, when exactly did this take place. You claim you bought the 2gig SDs for us$7 a piece. You claim Jamaica charges triple the amount and state that this fact is one of the things keeping Jamaica a country in poverty. Yesterday at MegaMart I priced the 2gig SD cards at ja$695 - or around us$8.

You say the Jamaican government is ripping of their own people by "making Jamaicans pay triple the world market price when they want to take pictures on SD-chips" - and yet Jamaicans pay us$8 for something you paid us$7. How is this possibly triple the world market price?

But again, if this is because the "sour experience" happened years ago, maybe the SD cards that you felt were so normal in the US at the time were considered a luxury item in Jamaica at that time. Perhaps most Jamaicans had never seen or even heard of an electronic picture frame back at that time. And perhaps the very few Jamaicans that this policy would effect at the time would be considering them luxury items as well.

The Jamaican government has let you know that you can receive the duty list from them. I am sure that information will be online sometime in the future, but I am also sure that it is not one of their main priorities. Nothing online at present would be definitive and would be subject to change. Even the US government website states that their "interactive data base that will enable you to get an approximate idea of the duty rate for a particular product. Please be aware that the duty rate you request is only as good as the information you provide. The actual duty rate of the item you import may not be what you think it should be as a result of your research. CBP makes the final determination of what the correct rate of duty is, not the importer."

You say that you dont want to pay for checked bags and want to bring just a carry on. Well, why dont you? The sunblock, shampoo and bugsprays you mention are all available here. Stop at MegaMart after leaving the airport. Lisa and I were just there last night. We buy all our needs right here in Jamaica and do not depend on getting things "cheaper" in the USA to be able to survive. You can do the same. And you would be helping the local economy grow...

If you are wanting to buy just the US brands you are used to in Jamaica, of course you may find those products more expensive. The US does not export their products cheaply and wants to maintain a high standard for their export products. With these items as well as the luxury items such as the big screen TV, lets look at this another way. Maybe you should heed your own advice and forego those purchases until the time comes that you feel that you can afford it here and not break the law trying to sneak those products in by providing less than truthful information to the Customs Agents. For most items you will need, you can purchase the locally made or Caricom brands instead and they are much less expensive. There are some great products that you may not be aware of that are readily available here. As for the luxury items, they will become lower in price as the economy grows.

[tfw73]

Rob, good advice. I'm thinking of just buying 'vacation essentials' at the MegaMart and skipping the checked bag altogether. We'd have to use Wal-Mart for those purchases and that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, lol. I'm all for shopping locally, but when on vacation I much prefer to put my dollars into their economy.

[beccajean_ca]

Rob, good advice. I'm thinking of just buying 'vacation essentials' at the MegaMart and skipping the checked bag altogether. We'd have to use Wal-Mart for those purchases and that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, lol. I'm all for shopping locally, but when on vacation I much prefer to put my dollars into their economy.

Tfw that's funny about wall mart......I hate that place.It is pact and the tills are slow.grrr I would rather pay more then to shop there.

[beccajean_ca]

I'm also noticing that this thread is getting heated. I enjoy giving my money to the locals..you get better service,they remember you..and its nice to see them smile when you give a little to much :o

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

I didn't think my last post would be that offensive. I thought I was actually conciliatory on most points and especially compared to my earlier posts where I DID slam the JA gov't on bureacracy and corruption. In the last post I was just trying to fill in the holes of generalizations in my earlier posts and personalize it with details of my actual experience. And use that to argue just my position that charging duty INSIDE the country (as opposed to airport tourist duty) was harmful instead of helpful. It's a political argument but I didn't think it was offensive - even now going back re-reading that last post - I thought it was mild. I am confused why you seem so offended by it.

I think sending pics to people who were in them is normal activity both here and in JA - my fiance and her friends take dozens of pics when I am there and share them with each other. I see all kinds of pics on their FB walls, and many other JA FB friends. My point about saying normal in the US in that sentence was that mailing an SD chip was normal way to share pics in US and something noone even thinks twice about. Not a commentary on what's normal in JA. I offered it only as explanation of why I didn't think twice it would be any problem in mailing them to JA.

The same with calling it a sour experience and relating the prices. As I said, I was completely ignorant of JA Post Office duty before that. I didn't think relating my experience and calling it a sour experience - because it was completely unexpected - would cause offense. It was late 2010 when I got those SD chips in USA - shortly before the 5-week trip listed in my signature. Soon after I know they were triple that price when I was in Negril because I priced them at several places because my then-GF wanted copies. The SD chips that go in electronic frames are the same SD chips that go in cameras and computers. It's not that they were rare or new in JA - they had them all over and I had bought them there in prior trip - they were just very expensive. I'll just make a guess it's your explanation that maybe the JA gov't no longer considers them luxury goods - so prices are same now? You seem to imply I am making it up about the price difference - why would I when it would be simple to ask a merchant who sells them what they cost 15months ago or so.

I didn't say the JA gov't was ripping off it's people because of difference in certain activity - but difference in price gov't artificially inflates and makes their own people pay. I was relying on your info that higher price is due to duty on what JA gov't deems luxury goods - like TVs. And if someone charges inflated prices - don't we all commonly refer to that as a rip-off. Tourists would rarely have a reason to buy a TV, mainly JA people do. But I don't think it matters whether it is luxury goods or everyday goods - TVs or SD-chips or suntan lotion or bug spray or batteries or other things I have seen with inflated prices - having a policy that artificially inflates prices hurts sales and therefore hurts the economy and therefore the JA people. I know that is debatable opinion because is economics. So that paragraph might be controversial - but I don't think it was personal, just political.

Regarding having to mail the gov't for the duty schedule. I didn't just criticize them for that - I also said they did a good job with online visa info. I only asked why if they could do one - why not the other. Most places I have seen where info is in both printed form and online - even the JA visa info - they tell you to rely on the online info because printed info that gets distributed is almost impossible to ensure it is current. You only have to update one form electronically vs having to print and distribute new paper forms and collect out-of-date ones.

You asked why I don't bring just a checked bag, and buy the liquid goods there. I brought it up because I think it reinforces my reasoning of why I think the JA internal duty (as opposed to airport duty) hurts the JA economy and so the JA people. If you can so easily, and completely within the tourist duty rules, bring in goods like suntan lotion, bug spray, shampoo, lotion, batteries, etc that are half the cost in US vs JA - it's only human nature to do it. Maybe it's only me, but I don't think so - I see alot of people posting questions about what things like this cost in JA. And at least to me, it has nothing to do with brand names - I couldn't care less. I don't begrudge anyone for whom price isn't a concern - I don't know why you begrudge me for whom it is a concern. I would hope JA gov't would realize this and change their policy so it wouldn't be an issue to anyone.

Finally, why would you think I was planning to sneak a big-screen down there? I don't even think it's possible to fit a 30" TV in a suitcase. Is that where the source of the the animosity comes from - because I argued it's insane to have a duty law that depends "it's not what's in your bag if you have to pay duty, it's what's in your head" - and you apparently agree with that law? When I started asking questions about my own situation, I asked if anyone knew what the airport tourist duty would be - or what the other section of the duty laws that applied to people moving household goods down would be - so I could compare the US price plus baggage fee plus duty to the JA retail price. Later I even said that I came around to the advice given here to buy in JA, and don't get a flat screen and maybe to buy used - and asked for prices on gently used or new but 2010-or-so model. Hardly the questions/posts someone thinking about sneaking a TV in writes. I couldn't care less about brand name - just value - so if they have competitively priced goods, I'll buy them. But whenever I go shopping with my fiance - whether for household goods, clothes, kids toys, construction materials, and especially electronics - I am shocked at how much more expensive most things are there. Almost everything except JA food to cook at home. I wish they had more of local mfg base and more locally produced items. But I don't see that happening nor the JA economy improving much without huge change in their gov't - bureacracy, corruption, size, bank lending policies - and yes, one more time, tax/duty policy. But my criticism is not unique to JA policies - I think pretty much the same about US policies, too - just a likkle more so about JA.

I do like a lively debate, and think I try hard to stay civil doing it. I did discuss my own personal business because I thought it added to discussion - but I tried not to get personal about others business. If I fell short in that, and offended - I apologize. Sometimes it's hard to be passionate about a topic, and not be somewhat confrontational.

[Rob]

Dispensing accurate and helpful tourist information is purpose of this board and why it was created. The original poster's question was best answered by Sweetness in that there is no reason to bring down a tv for someone when you can get it here. There is never any reason to lie to the customs agents of any country to which you are entering. That is not sound advice.

To elaborate on the additional tourist related comments, you can purchase items such as shampoos, bug sprays, sunscreens, etc. on the island when you get here to make your air travel less of a burden. On the way from the airport, just stop in at MegaMart and you can find a wide variety of products you need at affordable prices. You can wait til you get to Negril and go to HiLo or Valuemaster to make these purchases, but the selection will be less and the prices slightly higher on some items.

Local brands and Caricom produced brands are the least expensive and are comparable in price to the North American brands that most of our visitors are familiar. North American brands tend to be more expensive.

So to save the hassle of carrying these items with you, you can purchase them on the island in an affordable fashion.

OB,

The fact that you are married to a Jamaican and building a house in Jamaica makes your situation different from tourists visiting the island. I understand that you are having problems understanding how and why the Jamaican government makes the decisions that they do, but I do feel that you need to take more time to understand the differences in the USA economy and the economy of the vastly smaller developing nation of Jamaica.

[Lola]

Perhaps its not relevant to compare prices in the US to prices in JA, hey, I didn't like the cost of things in England compared to the US when I went there... its based on their internal economy. The US has enormous land and people resources, thus many things cost less in the US, as profits are generated by selling many units of a thing.

As a future long-termer/resident, just compare prices within Jamaica, and you can do all right. It pays to look around and shop around, even in Negril. Prices vary from store to store and some will negotiate. Shopping can be more personal/in-person here.

[Bnewb]

I totally agree with you, Lola.
As a Canadian that lived near the American border...we would venture over to the US for certain products that were always much cheaper than buying in Canada. In one instance a friend of mine wanted to purchase a car radio that in the US would cost $100us. In Canada the item would cost around $400us...by the time we bought the item, paid for gas, paid a huge amount of duty...this product came out around a total of $300us...still much cheaper than we could have bought it for in Canada. I still see some items that are much cheaper in the US than Canada....but this is extremely logical as Lola & Rob have pointed out...the economies are different for each country.

OB...I've been reading what both you & Rob have written & if you think you've offended and/or you're debating Rob...I don't think you're getting the gist of his message. If you're truly planning on living down here....there's certain aspects of your preconceived thinking that you will have to let go and this is what Rob is trying to suggest to you....otherwise, quite bluntly...you won't make it & it'll cost you more in the long run.
As someone who has been living down here for 5 years full time now...Rob (and now I) have these questions asked quite often. We find by the way someone responds to the received info, predicts whether they will survive down here or not. I've heard Rob being called negative, anti-American, pessimistic and a buzz-killer :) when asked how to survive in Jamaica...but the reality is he has survived here successfully, full time for 20 some odd years...this has been no accident.
I've heard & seen many people trying to purchase property, build homes here, start businesses all without success...and it breaks my heart as I know this is a dream for so many people. My wish is that they would listen to someone that has actually made it here & why they have. It's sad when I hear the one's who don't make it, then blame either the Jamaican people or the government or both when the problem is obvious from the outset.

If anyone is trying to live down here and/or start a business...my simple advice is to talk with someone that has succeeded & is still living here successfully.

[Delta]

Soooo ummm, do they have gluten free items at Mega Mart????

[Rob]

You can get most everything at Mega Mart - here was a photo taken just before Christmas inside the store. I have seen many gluten free products on the shelves...

11881

[Delta]

Wow! Looks like my kind of store. I'm trying to see how much stuff for Daniel I need to bring with as opposed to being able to get there.

[SweetSue]

Where exactly is the Mega Mart? Looks huge! I have heard so much about it but I never went there. Generally upon arrival, I get out of Mo'Bay pretty quickly. Either because I am on a Juta or my pickup wants to get away from the traffic. I have driven on the island - Negril to Mandeville was a good run - but never in Mo'Bay. That is a concern I will have to overcome & just do it.


http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/4;10704;116/st/20120417/e/soon+come.../k/63c0/event.png
(http://www.TickerFactory.com/)

[Delta]

SweetSue looks like we arriving the same day!

[SweetSue]

SweetSue looks like we arriving the same day!

Yup! Maybe I'll see you there on the beach...


http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/4;10704;116/st/20120417/e/soon+come.../k/63c0/event.png
(http://www.TickerFactory.com/)

[tfw73]

You can get most everything at Mega Mart - here was a photo taken just before Christmas inside the store. I have seen many gluten free products on the shelves...

11881
Oh no! My husband and I are addicted to bulk shopping!!! I hope we can resist spending all of our vacation money at Megamart!

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

Hi all - back finally. I got a detached retina requiring eye surgery and not allowed to read or use computer - but finally allowed to again. They inject a bubble in your eye to help hold the retina in place, but that means no flying for 6 weeks minimum. Also, first 5 days off work had to use my PTO that WAS going to use for vacation days in JA. Bottom line - JA trip off until probably Sept or so, when I earn another week's PTO. Oh well - that's life.

Bnewb, Rob, Sweetness, and others - I DO thank you for the perspective, truly. I'm glad my posts weren't being taken as offensive. I thought they were - and being replied to with criticism for my being cost-conscious - but reading other's takes on comments, must be just me. My frustration came from having several customs questions (long-term move related section of customs laws, not the vacationing tourist related) and not finding answers. No problem - everyting criss, mon!

So this is in the same spirit of just providing information. To those boardies who ARE cost conscious, almost to the point of being obsessive-compulsive (like me) - or those thinking about longer-term living, not a short vacation - the following is offered as my experience so far, unique as my situation is.

Just as background as to where I am coming from, all my life I have value-shopped - it's just my nature now. I grew up on a crop and dairy farm in Ohio - having to work hard to earn things starting with chores before/after school as early as I can remember. I paid my own way thru college (Mechanical Engineering) by using savings and co-op'ing. I subscribe to Consumer Reports to learn how to haggle better with salesmen and know what items are rated the best value. I read and listen on the radio to Clark Howard (the Consumer Warrior - "Save more, spend less, and avoid being ripped off") and Dave Ramsey ("how to get debt-free"). I setup web alerts to track airfares for several weeks before each trip. I even check 2 1-way airfares compared to Round-trip airfares. So for me, it's almost impossible to NOT compare prices and value, it's just second nature.

So all that are the reasons I have been so obsessed with comparing US-to-JA prices (and you're right, I'd probably be better off if I didn't). But the biggest is that like probably most of you preparing for vacation, I go shopping before every trip - usually several times. And the prices get ingrained because I am comparing between K-Mart, WalMart, Target, Sams Club, etc before I finally buy (maybe that's not as usual). So when I see the same items in JA the next week for so much more - it just blows my mind. And it does make me worry about plans to live there, albeit part-time. That's something I'll just have to work on.

Now, I DO realize that living there longer term, that would fade (hopefully) - and I would just get used to JA prices and comparing between THEIR stores. But even then, I will be retired doing snow-bird thing married to a Jamaican - 6 or so hot months in USA, 6 or so cold months in JA. Not living there full time and running a business like many of you where you forget the prices back home. So I will still have the "curse" of knowing what items could be bought for back in USA.

So being in the more unique position I am currently - planning marriage to a Jamaican and slowly building/stocking up a house there from A-Z over many vacations, and planning on living there half-time sometime down the the road - this is my experience so far. From batteries, to bath and kitchen items, to towels and bed linens, and especially small electronics, and everything in between - a cost-conscious to the point of almost being obsessive/compulsive shopper definitely notices the price differences. And I have to disagree and say it's not minimal - I've saved hundreds of dollars by bringing many of these things down. (NOTE: nothing remotely close to TVs - just things that few-weeks staying tourists bring all the time - especially those that are house renters). What I know I can't bring down I DO buy, or plan to buy, in JA - but it hurts knowing the price difference. I wish I were like many of you and COULD just get it out of my head. Granted - my experience is just stores in Negril to Sav areas (my fiance has lived in just Westmoreland and St. Elizabeth parishes - MoBay is not familiar to her, and so not to me either). So it sounds like we need to add a shopping day or two to MegaMart, ATL, and other places in MoBay, each trip.

Now you may think - well how does this guy enjoy spending money vacationing in Negril, then, if he's that cheap? I have just been talking about comparing prices and hating to pay MORE THAN NECESSARY - it's not that I don't mind spending. Jamaica is a great value for vacationing, comparitively (I'm learning that for living - just not so much). But if you've seen me and my now-fiance out and about on previous trips, you know I frequently bring her family/friends along on our excursions and days/nights out. Last St Patty's Day Pub Crawl was good example. And I bring down lots of OSU Buckeye clothing to give away - to friends new and old, her family, hotel staff - and especially for all their kids. (but I do buy it at the Dollar store - LOL)

[Sweetness]

Hey Buckeye - sent you a message. I still believe almost everything needed to live in JA can be bought in JA and most are similar pricing to US especially in Sav or other non-tourist areas. Over the years I have brought household goods w/me for long trips only to find them right at Hi Lo for cheaper than I paid in US. Dollar store and stuff like that are good for kid stuff so there are some exceptions but really most things I had to buy to set myself up household wise (and I like all the comforts tru mi) were affordable. Difference I noticed was the name of the brands but quality seemed similar too to what I have at home. I do like my special sharp kitchen knife, microfiber blanket and some fancy candles, stuff like that that I bring but the basics are right there and not higher in most cases. Just my experience. Plus often in JA prices can be negotiated - not the case in the States--gotta watch for sales.

I hope your eye heals up quick so you can get back down. Prayers for you and yours. Sweet

[Rob]

OB,

Sounds like our backgrounds growing up in Ohio had many similarities. I had a lawn/snow business with a friend starting at the age of 12. I also worked hard for my money. I paid for my own car. I paid for my college. I also subscribed to Consumer Reports and read it religiously. I knew where all the outlet malls were located in Ohio and shopped at many of them. Heck, my girlfriend is from bargain shopping capital of Canada! But I think you are missing my point about how important it is to support the local economy of the country in which you are choosing to live.

Earlier you have made some harsh judgments about how the store, Courts as well as the Jamaican government are ripping off their own customers/citizens. You suggest that the customs duty should be avoided by being less than truthful to the customs agents when coming to the island. You make these claims and yet now state that neither you or your fiance are familiar with Montego Bay, which has more consumer choices than Negril and Sav La Mar combined. I would hazard to guess that you are not familiar with the least expensive shopping area on the island either, Kingston, which has more choices than Negril, Sav and MoBay combined.

I am not sure how you can possibly come to these conclusions when you are admittedly unaware as to what items are actually available on the island, or how cheaply they can be purchased. Some of the outlet malls I mentioned earlier were the same distance from Columbus as Kingston is to Negril. As it was for me then, for some items, the time/hassle/cost associated with getting there is worth the savings.

You are choosing to and suggesting for others to not support the local economy of Jamaica, a small developing island nation where you are building a home and are wanting to live half your future years. You say you want Jamaicans to have it easier and have more consumer choices. I do as well. But, in order for the necessary changes to take place, the local economy needs to grow. For you to choose to not support the local economy and to suggest for others to do the same is contrary to this goal. Rather than being a part of the solution, you are choosing to be a part of the problem.

This has nothing at all to do with the cost of products in the US. It does not have to do with being cost-conscious or being an obsessive/compulsive shopper, although if you are as obsessive as you claim, you should really be familiar with shopping in Montego Bay and Kingston.

The point I have been trying to make is that it is all about helping the local economy of the place you are choosing to build a home to grow and prosper.

And please dont think for one second that those of us who live here are not aware of the prices of items in our birth countries. I am not even sure why you would suggest that. Besides, there is this handy thing called the internet that lets you see prices from stores all over the world...

[SweetSue]

Rob - I have been reading your comments on this subject and it has definitely affected what I do or do not bring down. Sure, I still throw in a few items that I would not have opportunity to find or buy on the island. Small gifts or certain toiletries I prefer. Those 3 jars of peanut butter I got for half price, ha ha. A really cute item for someone's new baby. Otherwise, I just bring a little more cash and I am trying to find the best places to shop in JA. I understand what OB is saying about Courts - I feel the same way about the places in NY that capitalize on the inability of the poor to save money or get credit. They end up paying 3 or more times as much the true cost of the item. It is not only in JA that the poor get taken advantage of. Plus, I am not totally pleased with the quality or price of certain items I have looked to buy in JA but I definitely understand the need to support the economy - if only because I care about people who live there.

Thanks for all you do as a source of solid information & reason.

Peace.


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[sbeth]

Very informative thread. This is making me consider what items I plan to bring with me next time I come. Last time I came I packed mosquito repellant, sunblock, toothpaste, etc. But this is making me consider staying in MoBay long enough to purchase these items. Question - I have sensitive skin and need serious sunblock that doesn't have a bunch of dye and perfume. I usually buy neutrogena or something comparable for sunblock. Are brands like that available at MegaMart?

[TBfan]

Been through similar (though I was not expecting to be paid for the items) but I did not expect to have to pay duty. Some customs agents are reasonable but some are trying to squeeze $$ out of travelers and others are just plain NASTY!

[TBfan]

I would not be worried about paying duty on mosquito repellent or sun screen. Unless you are carrying an unreasonable amount of it.

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

It's ALIVE again- some topics just won't die. LOL.
If you do bring down items that you might have to pay duty on - i.e. baby clothes for a JA friend, and you are not traveling with a baby; school supplies to donate; and the like - I suggest you bring the receipts. If they do impose duty, at least you will have proof of the true value of what the item cost you to purchase. Otherwise, similar to what TBfan mentioned, they could set the duty based on the much higher cost of what the items would cost in JA.

My experience has been (with mailed items, not had it happen at the airport) that the duty is NOT a small percent of the value of the item - it was 100% of THEIR assessed value of the item. I don't remember exact values any more, but just for example. SD cards I bought in US for, say $10 - used to mail vacation pictures to my fiance - that cost $30 in Negril - they initially wanted $30 duty. After a few days of my fiancee arguing with them at the post office, they agreed to a lesser amount. So as TBfan mentioned - seems like it depends on what agent you get, and there is no amount set in stone. If I had known there was going to be a duty assessed - I would have included the receipts for the SD chip in my mailed package.

[sbeth]

I am not worried about paying duty on sunscreen/bug spray. Rather I was thinking that it would be better to support the local economy and purchase there. But - I need to know if I can buy US brands there because I desperately need my sunblock and I have very sensitive skin.

[Beebeluv]

this one got rob going! hehe.. dont mess with the BOSS lol hehe