oh oh ::: Ja-Election .... Feb 25th

[frankk]

Saw a well managed parade of people wearing orange in Treasure Beach yesterday. It's democracy in action and we should all be glad to have freedom to do that.

[johng]

Accompong, seems we are talking oranges and apples here the past elections I know very little about except many blamed Dudus for losing the 2011 Election to Portia Simpson-Miller and Bruce Golding was finally kicked out when after initially refusing to give up Dudus was forced to change his mind. Do you really not think that Dudus isn't in many ways still running things from a foreign. You are right my knowledge of Jamaican politics since Dudus has left is minimal. My point was that it was during the Seaga Manley wars that Jamaica escalated to todays situation of violence and murder on the island. And anybody with a brain knows who and how they did it. That's my point. I pray for peace not war. I love all Jamaicans and truely hope that the elections are quiet and peaceful but it more than obvious there are more violent activities island wide since 1980. That's my point. Dis ano likkle joke business.

[Rob]

Johng,

Having been here for the past 5 elections and this upcoming election number 6 on the 25th, I think I have a little first hand perspective on the situation that may clear things up a bit.

I was here for the '93, '97 and 2002 elections where the PNP retained their seats and PJ Patterson was the Prime Minister (for us American folks, you dont vote for Prime Minister, the PM is from the party that won the most seats in the general election). PJ Patterson resigned for his own reasons, and and this allowed Portia Simpson-Miller to become the first female PM. In 2007, after the PNP being in power for the previous 18 years, the JLP won the majority of seats and Bruce Golding became the Prime Minister.

Please note that in all of the elections above, you will not find any news stories of any serious election related violence, even as the party in power for 18 years (PNP) turned the reigns over to their opposition (JLP). The transition was as peaceful as any in North America.

During the JLP controlled Parliament, the US asked for the extradition of the "Don" of Tivoli Gardens, Dudas. This was not during any election time and this unrelated Dudas affair was the eventual cause of Bruce Golding resigning for not handling the US extradition of Dudas in an efficient manner. Many were killed (numbers vary widely) in Tivoli Gardens which was the last of the "old style" garrison communities that have been spoken about in this thread. While some places are still referred to as "garrisons", they no longer resemble those of the past as in 1980. People from 1980 would not recognize Tivoli today. With the US monitoring of Dudas, there is no way he is running things from his prison cell in the US. We have driven through Tivoli Gardens and it is a different place than it was in the "garrison" days.

We have first hand experience of how the island handled the situation as the exact moment the government went after Dudas in Tivoli, we were at a roadside bar in MoBay on our way to Port Antonio. While we sensed an underlying anxiousness wherever we stopped (and we stopped a lot), when we entered the establishment, the radios and TVs were turned off for our benefit since we were perceived to be on vacation. When we mentioned we lived here, the radios and TVs would come back on and the conversations would become mostly one of sadness for what was transpiring. Soon the sadness would change to determined talk of not allowing any unrest to occur in their area. We had some very interesting conversations. We ended up having a safe, easy journey and noticed no unusual activity at all in any of the many cities we passed through on the North Coast.

Long after this situation was over, due to growing complaints about Bruce Golding's handling of the Dudas situation, Bruce Golding chose to resign and Andrew Holness became the new PM. Oddly enough we were in Kingston when this occurred. In a government office, the day we got there Golding was still PM and his picture was on the wall. When we went back to the same office a couple days later, his picture was gone and you could see the outline of where it was hanging.

In 2011, due to many reasons including the new and disliked IMF loan that the JLP arranged, and also because of the Dudas/Golding affair and Andrew Holness' relative inexperience as PM, the parties once again changed positions. The PNP became the ruling party with Portia Simpson-Miller becoming the first female Prime Minister by way of the election victory of her party. Once again, this transition took place as peacefully as any in North America.

During the last election, when Andrew Holness was driving his motorcade through Red Ground, we were watching from the Red Dragon and there were people wearing the JLP "green" showing their support, some folks in the PNP "orange" obviously not showing support, and yet some wearing both green and orange showing how much these old symbols of the past have decreased in any real meaning. There was cheering and waving by everyone - horns being heard and smiles all around. People saw the Prime Minister in their community, the party mattered little.

Times do change and Jamaica is changing with it.

[smith744]

...blah blah blah ..... Times do change and Jamaica is changing with it.

.
.
clap
clap
clap

some-how
we should start a campaign
to nominate Rob
as a 2016 Hero's Day honoree

.
.
.

[johng]

OK Rob,
Let me try and say this one more time. I am very hopeful that the Jamaican elections are crime free, just as I have wished every previous one. As a traveler to JA since 75 and many times since I try and stay up on the happenings there. My point, since the 76 and 80 Elections guns and violence has increased dramatically ( I do no think comparisons to other countries in those categories have any meaning) we are talking Jamaica. During those years for political reasons which perhaps are too sensitive to discuss both the PNP and the JLP resorted to warfare in their campaigns. Do I endorse that? Of course not. But political instability is a method used, especially in the Carib and Central & South America to get certain ducks in a row. Manley is lucky he didn't end up like Maurice Bishop did a couple years later. Without using the alphabet soup initials of the agencies involved you know who was holding the puppet strings. As a member of the Negril Community you have seen the increase in gun violence for a long time. In the 70's in Negril theives stole wallets and cameras, there was ganja smuggling, a rare rape and once in a great while a murder. So in summary yes elections in the past 5 years have been crime free but since 76 and 80 the crime rate due to guns has skyrocketed. That's all I'm saying.

[smith744]

.
an observation

I was down there
during the past 3 elections

had *heard* the stories about election violence
......but, in & around Negril (and Lucea), everything was irie

tru tru was a likkle back & forth verbal battles,
but nothing serious

and with the last election
when my sweetie-pie Portia won
it was as peaceful as any election here in WasingtonDC

an aside:::>>> and off topic:::>>> with those 3 elections, I was sadly surprised to see how many folks didn't vote

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

terrible turnout
low participation

yet,
always a lot of complaining 'bout this & that with the government

so,
on-island (( and here in USofA ))
when-ever i hear chat 'bout government this or government that
mi-SAY:::>>> '''... did you vote...??..'''

so,
all of you's going down this month,
tell all your Ja-*friends* ::::>>> Go Vote..!!..




[[[ sermon done ]]]

[TAH]

Seems appropriate:

[smith744]

Seems appropriate

.
yep
VERY-much so
:-).
.
.
and NOT just in Jamaica

[Rob]

Johng,

The Jamaican election statistics do not support your speculations. The election violence has gone down since '76 and '80, which is now some 40 years ago.

Comparing Jamaica to Haiti is also an "apples to oranges" thing. Papa Doc and Baby Doc have no similarities to the Jamaican process at all. There is nothing like the "Tontons Macoutes" here, and to make any comparison between that nonsense and current day Jamaica is unfair to anyone reading this forum.

Please feel free to pray, there is nothing at all wrong with that. But to compare 2015 to the 1970's and 1980 is once again, apples to oranges.

Take care man.

[Irieonline]

I don't think Jong is talking about election violence. I think what he is trying to say is since those violent elections happened violent crimes overall have increased, not violence during election times. That's how I read it anyways