What has happened to the Jamaicans???

[johng]

One of the biggest reasons I returned to Jamaica after my first visit to the island / Negril in 1975 was because I found the Jamaican people to be awesome, honest and trustworthy and beautiful God loving people. The saying " Guns don't kill people, people kill people" resonates true.

Maybe the question is too simplistic and the easy answer is "Well there is violence Internationally" but for many of us who love Jamaica it is because we love the Jamaican people. To lump all the "Bad man" with the majority of still great people is very unfair but the question still begs "What has happened to the Jamaicans???. Is it the importation of violent behavior from "The civilized world" or is it that the availability of illegal guns has proliferated way beyond a healthy level or perhaps the combination of the two.

I am reminded of a neighbor state here in New England whose motto is "Live Free or Die". Could it be that too many Jamaicans have come to the end of their rope don't give a S*** anymore?? Are they encouraged by the lyrics of too many songs that encourage violence and death particularly by gun??

I have talked to many Jamaican friends living in Jamaica, especially one from the Blue Mountains in Portland that can not believe what has / is happening in JA. Most see it as the fault of the JA Government and their policies of divide and conquer.

Any thoughts on the subject are sincerely welcomed.

Cool,
John

[Accompong]

WE are what happened to Jamaicans.

We are the people who give people money for no quid pro quo. Rewarding bad service and behavior equally or more than for good. Sending money to scammers to collect on Lottery winnings when we didn't even play a lottery and now they fight over the business it brings in. Provided TV and Movies where gunmen are glorified. Buy their ganja they export which provides money for smugglers to pay the growers with guns. Training future gangsters on the streets of American cities how to deal drugs and use guns instead of working hard for a living. Many of US are not setting a good example for them.

Our country in 1975 and Jamaica in 1975 were pretty good places to live. Just like in 2016, we are again becoming pretty similar and that isn't that much of a good news story either.

As my best friend Marshall says, "Jamaicans are either very good or very bad. The ones that are very good will melt your heart and the ones that are very bad will rip out your heart and eat it"

[Rob]

Johng,

To adequately address your question, it needs to be reworded as to allow for an answer. You state "To lump all the "Bad man" with the majority of still great people is very unfair but the question still beg What has happened to the Jamaicans???."

As you point out, nothing has happened to "the Jamaicans" as a whole, but why are some Jamaicans turning to the violent behaviour you question? This topic is brought up nearly daily at the places we hang, and to a person, the average Jamaican is frustrated by this trend. They are not at the end of any rope and are wanting to do things about it.

There is some obvious truth that the importation of violent behaviour from international violence is a factor. The world is not what it was in 1975. Around this planet in the realities of 2016, people are blown up or gunned down sitting in restaurants and bars, shot or stabbed while shopping, gunned down at school and movie theatres and even killed during routine traffic stops. To expect Jamaica to exist in a vacuum is not realistic. Of course there is some residual effects taking place. But that certainly does not explain the type of violence we are seeing here.

I would put as much emphasis on the "gun lyrics" theory as the often espoused "violent video game" theory. There may be a contributing factor, but most people can and do make the separation between fantasy and reality.

The JA Goverment conspiracy theory of "divide and conquer" would make sense if there was something to divide or conquer. With the majority of Jamaicans living from paycheck to paycheck trying to make ends meet, if there is a paycheck, the "conquering" is a moot point. Cant divide what has already been divided. Plus, this flies in the face of the logic of what has recently taken place on the island.

Earlier this month, the USA FBI and ATF set up on-island offices inside the US Embassy. Why have these foreign investigation agencies whose mandate is to operate within USA boarders opened offices in the Jamaican US Embassy (which is considered US soil)? There are two quick answers. The first is the continuing international "lotto scam" in which Americans send millions of dollars to Jamaicans because they "won" millions of dollars in a contest they never entered and need to send payment to collect their "winnings". The second reason is to help determine more precisely where all these guns are coming from by tracing their routes through their serial numbers. This is a quote from the US Ambassador in Jamaica:

"Having the FBI means that if there is a federal crime committed here which affects both Jamaica and the United States(read lotto scam), I don’t have to wait for the office in Miami for international affairs to send me agents. Once we have an office here full-time, that guy will go out, train people, and will liaise and exchange information,” he explained.

The ambassador said the ATF is crucial, as it can trace serial numbers and conduct forensic tests on guns coming through the United States and Central America in the drugs for gun trade.

He pointed out that the US has invested and will continue to invest tens of millions of dollars and thousands of man-hours in improving the capabilities of Jamaica’s security forces and the judiciary."

Source: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...-at-US-Embassy

So Johng, this is indeed a problem with international roots. For lotto scammers, they can become rich nearly overnight which can be very enticing to the youth and even some otherwise hardworking people wanting to get in on the riches. This is where much if not most of the recent violence originates. Since the FBI has been and is now effectively working on the island, anyone who "knows too much" about a scammer's business becomes an instant target.

All it takes is for the scammer to think they may be turned in for them to take action. With the limitation of wire-transfer amounts, the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars often need to be physically brought to the island. When the money carrier does not have all the funds or the scammer feels they cannot be trusted, action is once again taken almost immediately.

What started out in the eyes of most Jamaicans as seeming almost as a victim-less crime has mushroomed into an international problem which has brought the FBI to the island. So to do your part, please let others know to stay away from the lotto scam. If someone you know gets a call and are told they won anything but have to pay money first to get it, ask them to please just hang up.

[jon c.]

Our country in 1975 and Jamaica in 1975 were pretty good places to live. Just like in 2016, we are again becoming pretty similar and that isn't that much of a good news story either.


A lot of people don't seem to realize that crime rates in the US were much, much higher in the mid 70s than they are today. Crime hasn't become worse in the US, but the narrative has changed to make it seem that way for political purposes.

I don't know what the reality is in JA. Certainly Negril is a lot different but I suspect that's substantially a function of population growth. For decades JA has had a reputation for crime being out of control. Regular visitors decried that as a false rep. With a couple incidents in their "neighborhood" many of the same folks are now joining the chorus about how dangerous it is. Has crime statistically increased all that much or is it perception due to a couple of high profile incidents?

Crime is a funny thing in terms of stats. Only recently learned that my own county has the highest crime rate in Florida. Given Florida's reputation, that statistic might leave a visitor worried. But I have never lived anywhere in this country where I had less concern about crime impacting my own life. There is nowhere in this city I ever think twice about potentially being a victim of crime. Which isn't all that relevant, but it does go to show our perception of crime has a lot to do with what crimes we hear about and how those crimes intersect with the sphere of our own lives.

[eddiemingus]

To divide and conquer. The point here has nothing to do with material or monetary gain. Just like in america Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump are doing just that dividing the people and setting them against each other. And to conquer has to do with taking over the political system. You made excellent points John I wouldn't argue any of them and I've been coming here since 1973.

[Rob]

Eddie,

"... conquer has to do with taking over the political system." Lets look at the facts in the past election.

This last election was decided by less than 4000 total votes island-wide. The elected seats ended up 32 to 31. It has been called the closest election ever in Jamaica. And less than 50% of eligible voters cast ballots.

Limbaugh and Trump aside, it seems that the Jamaican voters completely "took over" the political system. Over half the voters didnt play the game at all, and those that did split it as close to even as possible at 4 one thousandth of 1 percent. If divide and conquer was the plan to take over the political system, neither party conquered or took over anything. If anyone took over anything, the people ruled this election by allowing neither party take over controlling power of the political system.

[johng]

Everybody that has contributed to this thread each has solved a part of a very complex puzzle. The Lotto scam?? Who would have thought that anybody would fall for that?? Yet I had a 95 year old neighbor who passed recently that if she had been contacted could very well have "fallen" for the scam.

jon c. the decades of JA having a reputation for crime being out of control often times were contained in the cities (Kingston, MoBay, etc..) and were political in nature rearing its ugly head during election time and had a lot to do with intimidating the voters with fear, especially the 1980 election. Yes it was bad for JA tourism at the time.

But now I read about 2 or 3 people at a time, entire families, young children, the elderly and tourists being murdered for, in many cases, no logical motive for the act. Yes that has existed worldwide since the beginning of mankind but somehow I remember a special charm that I felt while in Jamaica. Perhaps a wallet or camera were taken from time to time. Maybe an attack or even a rape but that was such a rarity that most didn't even hear about it.

Maybe I'm being too nostalgic here and not realistic in my comments but to see the meltdown of a culture, community and country fall prey to the evil and negative is difficult for me to accept and yes Rob it is up to all of us who care to do whatever we can big or small to try and help our Jamaican brethren.

As for me the more I think about the breakdown in Jamaica society the more credence I give to the simple. Greed, fueled by foreign intervention, political manipulation leading to the importation of thousands of guns and violence and the evolution of the ganja trade into cocaine, especially crack and also heroin and other addictive and violence provoking drugs. The recipes for disaster!!

[Rob]

johng,

Unfortunately I dont feel you are fully understanding the most important piece of the current puzzle, which is the lotto scam. When the news reports about "no logical motives" for these latest acts, as jon c. pointed out, your location and perception can mean everything. For those of us living daily in Jamaica, we now take it mean that it is probably part of the lotto scam. The police may not have all the proof yet to make that announcement or even be withholding information as to not interfere with an investigation.

From LoopJamaica, their "Lotto Scam" section has 4 pages of headlines such as the following:

Over a dozen alleged lotto scammers to face court this month September 3, 2016

'Budding career': Co-conspirator in law student scamming case has bright resume - friend June 29, 2016

Woman impersonates FBI agent in Jamaica-based lotto scam June 27, 2016

Jamaican man receives 2.5 years in prison for lottery scam June 11, 2016

'Gifted and talented' St Ann promoter arrested for scamming elderly American woman June 4, 2016

Jamaican lottery scam victim turns scammer June 2, 2016

And that is just from Sept to June.

Source: http://www.loopjamaica.com/tags/lottery-scam

About a year ago, the USA stated that the Jamaican lottery scam is bigger than drug trade. To quote the article:

"The United States Embassy has described the lottery scam in Jamaica as so organized that it is bigger than the drug trade.

The statement effectively becomes the latest warning about Jamaica issued online by the Embassy.

"The lottery scam in Jamaica has morphed into an organized crime wave bigger than drugs," stated a tweet this month by the US Embassy with a link to a CNN story about an 81-year-old Tennessee native committing suicide after he was bilked out of thousands of United States dollars by Jamaican lottery scammers.

The scam is wreaking havoc in both countries. Hundreds of senior citizens have lost life savings to the scam in the US while, in Jamaica, the scam has led to a wave of murders in Western Jamaica."

Source: http://www.loopjamaica.com/content/j...-trade-says-us

You can choose to give more credence to simple "greed fueled by foreign intervention, political manipulation leading to the importation of thousands of guns and violence and the evolution of the ganja trade into cocaine, especially crack and also heroin and other addictive and violence provoking drugs." But that goes against the facts as both the USA and Jamaica know them to be.

The lotto scam is the main reason the FBI now has an active office in the US Embassy in Kingston.

[bksmm]

So to do your part, please let others know to stay away from the lotto scam. If someone you know gets a call and are told they won anything but have to pay money first to get it, ask them to please just hang up.

I could give this advice to thousands of people and they would all just laugh at me or say do I look like a moron? I only know of one person who may fall for the lotto scam and that is my 83 year old father-in-law. The vast majority of lotto scam victims are the elderly and I don't fully understand why they fall for it, but then I'm not old. People do lose their memory and mental capacities with age or certain diseases, but I think there's more to it. I think many elderly don't make good decisions under pressure, especially when they're being scammed or threatened. Also, many in the older generation are not technically savvy and they can be too trusting of strangers.

I could be dead wrong but your statement "Americans send millions of dollars to Jamaicans because they "won" millions of dollars in a contest they never entered and need to send payment to collect their "winnings"" sounds to me like you feel the victims are stupid or partially to blame. The criminals that pull off these scams have very sophisticated methods of building trust with their victims and they are also persuasive, tricky, and sometimes threatening. Again, under pressure the elderly often make poor choices, are easily confused, and for some reason they don't consult their family (maybe they want to demonstrate their independence).

My father-in-law recently had a $4000 water softener installed in his 1600 sq. foot house that's about 75 years old. The house doesn't even have a dishwasher and it needs kitchen and bathroom remodeling, new carpets, and a new roof but he had the water softener put in because some sales guy convinced him to. My father-in-law lives by himself now as his wife died a decade ago and he didn't bother to consult any of his children prior to his purchase. Shamefully, I told my wife he was an idiot for it but in reality he made a poor choice due to his age and dementia. But in his case, he wasn't really scammed as he got what he paid for, he just fell for the salesman's persuasion.

In my opinion, the criminals in Jamaica that are targeting the elderly in the lotto and other scams are 100% responsible for their actions and should be held accountable. My wife and I just got back from our first trip to Negril a couple of weeks ago and while we had a great time, we had several people who tried to scam us. I wasn't going to write a review but maybe I will to let others know what we encountered.

[booger]

'In my opinion, the criminals in Jamaica that are targeting the elderly in the lotto and other scams are 100% responsible for their actions and should be held accountable. My wife and I just got back from our first trip to Negril a couple of weeks ago and while we had a great time, we had several people who tried to scam us. I wasn't going to write a review but maybe I will to let others know what we encountered."