Crime threads...advice for a sort of newbie?

Spent a lot of time in Negril in 80s/early 90s. 4-5 months a year for 5 years. That said, I haven't been back to Negril since 1993. I did post that in the late 80s I had some travelers checks stolen in Negril, but that didn't stop me from going back to Negril for 4 months the next year. Getting married and having children did!

So now that I'm going back after 20 years, should I really be concerned? I'm a seasoned traveler, but has Negril changed so much that crime is rampant? I still have many old and trusted Jamaican friends in Negril who I will be so happily reuniting with. The thought of staying in an AI never crossed my mind! It's totally unappealing to me. But some of these recent discussions about crime from posters who have been going to Negril regularly over the past 20 years makes me wonder if the Negril I once so loved is gone....

Any advice from those who used to go in the 80s/early 90s about what I can expect in terms of change would be appreciated. I never stayed on the beach or cliffs...always stayed in town or in the hills. I am staying on the beach this time. Places to avoid? Things to avoid (other than the obvious)?

Thanks
Kim

You'll be 100% fine on the beach during the day time. The higglers can be a pain, but really... No thank you - over and over and over works.

At night time, I would stick to the beach road when walking from place to place. There are more lights and more eyes. Plus you can get some good barrel jerk at night.

I havent had too many issues walking at night toward the west end area, other than the occasional car driving way too fast. I would recommend taking a car if you must get from place to place unless it is as short walk. (At night that is)

Just make sure you're not blackout wasted to the point where you dont have any semblance of you whits about you, and you'll be OK. During the night time, dont wander up any lanes that you're unfamiliar with.

I was a Newb just 24 short months ago, but have been six times since? I dont know I lost count.

We stuck our toes in the first time, then went all in with another poster here who frequents the island as much as anyone here. We feel fairly comfortable with the area now. But we try not to let our guard down too much. Particularly at night. Day time on the beach, there's nothing better in the world than bar hopping.

Most of the change is good, it is like anywhere you would travel, use your head and do the best to not put yourself in possible situations. Negril of old is not gone its just changed with the times like every where else.

2 words....COMMON SENSE

And kibby... It's definitely not as bad as where we are from....


Just a week or 2 ago.

http://articles.philly.com/2014-01-2...n-monday-night

I am sure you are familiar with Northern Liberties. A neighborhood where the yuppies and hipsters live.

Quote:

---

It had been a pleasant Sunday for Stephanie and Amber Long: a shopping trip where they picked out a $14 purse, an evening jewelry party. And now, mother and daughter were making their way home.

It was around 10:30 p.m., and they were walking to their car, parked on a Belgian block-paved stretch of Front Street in Northern Liberties where ritzy new apartments share space with vacant lots.

On the last day of her life, 26-year-old Amber, an architect who lived in South Philadelphia, had parked near a friend's house. She and her mother, Stephanie, a jeweler from Harrisburg who often visited her daughter, were steps from their car.

That's when two men approached from behind.

One snatched Stephanie Long's purse. The other went for the bag Amber had picked out with her mother.

Amber held on.

There was a loud pop.

And Stephanie Long turned to see Amber on the ground with a gunshot wound in her chest.





Or in November

---

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...232596141.html


Woman Raped, Beaten, Robbed in Center City

Quote:

---

Police are searching for a man who they say beat, robbed and raped a woman in Center City last week.

Investigators say the 29-year-old woman left the Tabu Lounge and Sports Bar on S. 12th Street last Thursday around 11 p.m. to feed a parking meter.

As she walked towards her car, police say she was approached by an unidentified m

---

Hello, fellow Philadelphian! If you are a seasoned traveller, you will be fine. People will say, "it's a fact that there is now more crime in Negril", but that needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It sounds to me that the crimes that are occurring today are the same crimes that occurred in the 70's and 80's. Only now, it may be a laptop being stolen instead of a wallet being fished through the grill of a window. Is there more crime now? Maybe - but there are also more people. Plus, I have yet to see any crime statistics; only a lot of here-say on the internet. And as Rob stated in his thread, the advent of the internet has allowed this type information to be shared quickly, where in the past we probably never hear about most of the crime that occurred in Negril.

To echo what others have said, bring your common sense and you'll be fine.

A guy known as Harry the Hippy had stuff stolen on the beach. He chased the thief,and
got stabbed by him. Never returned to Negril. This was over 35 years ago. sh t can happen. I have been in Negril every year since the early 80's, never a problem. Use common sense.

Great post Flip!

This just goes to show how shocking it can be when headlines like this are called out. Fact of the matter is, I feel very safe working in Center City and living in Manayunk (although the hipsters in Northern Liberties & Fishtown kinda scare me). I still feel safe in Negril, as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike_D

Great post Flip!

This just goes to show how shocking it can be when headlines like this are called out. Fact of the matter is, I feel very safe working in Center City and living in Manayunk (although the hipsters in Northern Liberties & Fishtown kinda scare me). I still feel safe in Negril, as well.

---

Yup, just puts things in perspective.

All the Philadelphians are going to chime in, I guess.

It's fine. Just use the same caution you would in Philly, and be aware.

I think a lot of what you are seeing is getting blown out of proportion. I had my issue back in November, but it was my own fault. What happened to kahuna! was by his own admission a result of letting his guard down.

Think about the thousands and thousands of people that go to the island every week, and nothing happens. Negril residents by and large are looking out for the safety of the tourist, as we drive a good portion of the economy. Frankly, when my incident happened, I was somewhat blown over by the support of strangers and the police. We probably have a higher rate of bad people here in Philly per 100 residents than you will see in negril.

And as I have said time and again... I am booked for November in spite of any issues.

We need to have a Philly get together.

How about after all this damn snow melts, and the temperatures allow for at least the limited desire to leave the house :).

We would all be pale (literally) reflections of our Jamaican personas!

Maybe this summer. I have a pool, and a outdoor bar next to said pool. As well as some 3 dives jerk sauce. We could pretend.

(Moved out to chester county.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike_D

Great post Flip!

This just goes to show how shocking it can be when headlines like this are called out. Fact of the matter is, I feel very safe working in Center City and living in Manayunk (although the hipsters in Northern Liberties & Fishtown kinda scare me). I still feel safe in Negril, as well.

---

LOL...you mean us Narbs aren't intimidating?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flipadelphia26

And kibby... It's definitely not as bad as where we are from....


Just a week or 2 ago.

http://articles.philly.com/2014-01-2...n-monday-night

I am sure you are familiar with Northern Liberties. A neighborhood where the yuppies and hipsters live.



http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...232596141.html


Woman Raped, Beaten, Robbed in Center City

---

Yes and many people still come to our city as tourists! But is it so bad in Negril that if I want to visit my old friends in the hills, even if I'm with them, I will have problems? Just want to prepare myself for any big differences from 20 years ago...Actually hadn't crossed my mind until these threads started to pop up.

FYI, going to new Mexican joint in Manayunk this week....we live at Han Dynasty :-)

I dont know about going to the hills. Not experienced there.

My GF and I have not run into too many issues over the last 2 years though. Some people were unfriendly here and there, but we have never felt threatened.

I feel much safer traveling to visit friends in the hills, usually have a long time friend with me and go to visit his family. Its good these threads popped up, you'll be fine and now more aware.... Stay on the beaten path, careful after dark, beach road has more people out and about so there is safety in numbers, the west end road gets dark and lonely at night, not safe....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kibby

Yes and many people still come to our city as tourists! But is it so bad in Negril that if I want to visit my old friends in the hills, even if I'm with them, I will have problems? Just want to prepare myself for any big differences from 20 years ago...Actually hadn't crossed my mind until these threads started to pop up.

FYI, going to new Mexican joint in Manayunk this week....we live at Han Dynasty :-)

---

I spend every day in Spring Garden and only sleep at Seastar (until I rebuild the house)

No problems there.

i live in a ritzy Main Line suburb of Philadelphia and we have crime too. We just don't have a beach.

Changed !!!! You heard,,it's like Lord of the Flies 2014 now. Hold on to your conch.

Quote:

---

has Negril changed so much that crime is rampant?

---

Yes it has changed a lot. and 'somewhat' for the 2nd half of the question. Maybe not 'rampant' per se, but nowadays it is ALWAYS there in the background ... Even if it doesn't happen everyday, or to you specifically, it has crept into the vibes.

another Philadelphian here -- and all this "it happens everywhere" is true, but it's not the POINT.

for me the point is ----> I'm not gonna spend a couple thousand dollars to go on vacation to a place where the vibes have deteriorated to a level where it is now no better than the big-city crime vibes at home. It's not about individual "incidents" - nor is it about the tiresome trend of somehow 'disproving' the validity of incidents because the victim may have been tipsy, or forgot to lock ALL 16 locks on their door, so it was THEIR fault. That is horse hockey. It's about the VIBE. Having to be on alert, and constantly having to watch my back just like I'm at 18th and Girard, is not irie or relaxing vibes. I don't drink but i DO enjoy going out at night, dancing til the wee hours at a club, walking by the sea in the moonlight - none of these things are 'unwise' - they're normal activities that people do on holiday; it's WHY we go on vacation. and if these kinds of very basic vacation activities are not safe to do - then it's not an enjoyable safe place to go.

I have loved Jamaica for 30 years, and defended it to everyone who said i was nuts - but no more. At this point for me JA is like 'that one guy' I never stopped loving, but had to break up with because some of his behavior got SO BAD that it reached a tipping point where it began to overshadow the parts of him that were good.

I don't go on vacation to be under the same kind of stress I have at home - where the 'advice' is to go in the hotel at 9 pm, never venturing out until morning. that is just ridiculous. There ARE still other places in the world I can go where crime, violence, resentment of tourism, and negativity is not the daily reality ... where the vibes are nice, where people can enjoy a walk under the stars, dance til dawn, splash your feet in the sea at 3 am if you want to... and be perfectly safe doing so.

Don't flash your bling, don't carry your 'life savings' with you, and stay sober.......

Rampant? If "rampant" means a very small number, then well, I guess so. There have been well over 1 million visitors to Negril over the past 3 years, and yet the number of incidents can be counted using your fingers. Here is what I wrote in a different thread to put things in perspective:

"After living here daily for over 20 years, I have had zero incidents of theft. That is zero, as in none. I am not naive enough to believe it can never happen, but in 20 plus years, it hasnt. And I dont think "being lucky" has much to do with it. The vast majority of those over a million visitors to Negril in the past 3 years have also experienced zero incidents of theft. Negril, with a small local population takes it personally when a visitor does experience an incident. And they are few and far between when you consider half a million people a year are visiting the tropical shores of Negril.

As reported by Hussyband during his incident, the neighbour women all came to his and his wife's rescue wanting to help. The police were very responsive to the problem and took active measures to help. And in the most recent story related, once again the neighbours stayed up all night with Kahuna3 and the police responded quickly to the incident.

In both these cases, the incident could have been prevented, admittedly by those that it happened. Not taking route taxis would have prevented the first case, and using the locking mechanism and deadbolt provided by the property would have prevented the second. Of course it was the thief that caused the incident and is the guilty party, but leaving oneself open to be an easy target does increase your odds of incident happening substantially anywhere.

Staying out til 3am at Scrub-a-Dub may not be the wisest behaviour. Walking in unlit areas at night may not be the smartest thing you could do. Never invite someone you just met back to your room. Just because someone seems charming and you have shared a few drinks and stories does not make them a "friend". Con-artists rely on this flaw in human nature and take advantage of it at every opportunity. And this goes for locals and tourists alike. I have seen more than my share of tourist on tourist crime. It takes years of substantial interaction for someone to become a real friend. If you feel you have made a real friend on your first trip, that person is probably looking out for their own interests more than they are yours.

And since that scourge of cocaine has been brought up, if you get yourself involved in that area, well, you may get exactly what you deserve. And remember, without the demand, there would be no supply. Jamaicans will not waste their time trying to sell something no one wants.

Also, there are almost always at least two sides to every story you hear on the net. Dont blindly believe them. A poster came up with a "list" of incidents that he had "heard" about. Well, we know a bit of the other side to some of those stories, and they happened over 3 year time period.

I wouldnt put too much reliability on anything that an admitted cocaine user says happened. Heck, back in the 80's when I worked the rock-n-roll circuit in Ohio, I saw many people empty their ATM accounts in one night and then have no memory of it in the morning and then blame everyone but themselves.

Another of these incidents involved a pair of sunglasses that the owner admitted they left at a bar and wrote it off as a case of "finders keepers". They have no idea who took the glasses and blame themselves for leaving them at the bar. To call it a case of theft is a bit over the top.

And for another incident, let's be fair, a coffee cup is not the most secure place you can put your money. I am not blaming the victim, but I am sure there was a better spot to hide the money.

And some cases are pure fiction. I happened to be at a hotel early one morning to work on their wireless when the police showed up. The woman and her Jamaican boyfriend claimed their room was broken into while they were gone and all their cash, credit cards and traveler's checks were stolen. They said they couldnt pay for the room and that since they were robbed, the hotel should let them stay for free. Oddly enough, the police found no sign of forced entry and their iPad, laptop, camera and smartphones were all sitting in plain sight, all items that could be easily sold. And yet they were not touched. Just because you hear one side of a story, please dont blindly believe it.

And tonight, there will be 100's of visitors that will get so inebriated on their drug of choice that they will not remember how they got back to their room. And yet they will arrive safe and sound without incident. This happens every single day in Negril and like their behaviour or not, they end up just fine.

It is foolish to think you have to be on your "A Game" all the time and quite frankly, I have seen many that make it just fine on their B, C or even D Game. Negril is an extremely safe place to vacation. The fact that we all can only come up with a few number of incidents per year should make you think. Thanks to the internet, all the information is now out there - no one can hide anything anymore."

ok, so here is what I'm hearing:
Beach ok during day
Don't get trashed (not planning on it)
Don't buy coke (not planning on it)
Don't exchange money on the street

Is beach ok to walk on at night? What's the deal with the taxis? Heard something mentioned about that.

I'll do the town/hills thing with my Jamaican friends....BTW, I called them after reading these threads and while they laughed a bit, they did say things have changed a lot since I used to come down. I'm starting to wonder if it's gonna feel like being in an AI if wandering around isn't safe like it used to be. But tickets booked and I am excited. Mostly looking forward to seeing old friends. And given that it's 5 degrees in Philly, I'm really looking forward to the warmth.

Thanks for the feedback. At some point I'll scan some of my old Negril pix from the 80s and post them....most are in the mountains, but I have a bunch of pix from the T Water hotel where I used to hang out on the beach.

Beach at night is something we try not to do. Never heard of anything bad happening to anyone, but it's a "Why tempt fate" thing for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flipadelphia26

Maybe this summer. I have a pool, and a outdoor bar next to said pool. As well as some 3 dives jerk sauce. We could pretend.

(Moved out to chester county.)

---

I'm in! Maybe I can smuggle back some authentic Red Stripe on my next trip.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kibby

LOL...you mean us Narbs aren't intimidating?

---

You Main Line folks are the scariest! I was once run off the road by a Volvo on Lancaster Ave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike_D

I'm in! Maybe I can smuggle back some authentic Red Stripe on my next trip.


You Main Line folks are the scariest! I was once run off the road by a Volvo on Lancaster Ave.

---

Yeah well watch out for my mini!!! It's pretty intimidating.

So if we are staying on beach (sister and self) and want to go out to listen to music on beach somewhere, we should go to road and taxi?

Depends where on the beach you are? If you dont mind walking, walking is OK.

In December, we decided to walk the road from BHV to Best of the West for a late dinner. We weren't sure how far it was and stopped to ask a couple of Tourism Police officers that we came across. They ended up walking with us the whole way there. We sat down, ordered and 3 minutes later, we were served our dinner. After dinner, our waiter drove us back (for a very reasonable fee). True story.

my 2 cents...u will be fine...sounds like u got some sense....I usually go to the music venues 3-4 times a week (alfreds, roots, bourbon) during our stay...passed flip on several occaions...lol....both with my wife and alone....and never taxied...most of the time, i walked the beach, and have only had one incident.....it was right outside of alfreds, one of the ganja dealers not wanting to take no for an answer....lasted about 30 secs, with a louder "I said NO THANKS"....some of the other "hustlers" who had seen me all week, sent him on his way....i feel safe on the beach, but that is just me....i always make friends with security at my place and take their advice....the road at night has alot of activity, as flip said, so more folks to watch out for you....

usually once every reach we will have dinner at Kuyaba and walk back to our hotel near Margaritaville, a little bit of a walk. It's dark out but not late, maybe 9-10pm. Some areas we pass are dark and at times we might be escorted but we never had any problem. We did have one guy last year that wouldn't leave us alon but we just stopped in the bar at Rondell and he went on his way. I mentioned him to the bartender who immediately went out to the beach to shoo him away but he was already gone.

you should be fine -but if your like me and like to go off the beaten path and explore-then maybe not so much… If your just going to hang out at the beach and go to local clubs that most tourists visit and dont go off the main tourists path..then yeah ,should be fine… and im not going tell you "bring your common sense -like your an idiotic 2yo" just know be very careful of who tries to friend you up there..and yes, take all the necassary safe /lock down your room precautions…
It not the same negril that your once visited…their is more crime because their are more criminals there ready to prey on unsuspecting tourist..times are hard ..it is what it is..
Jamaica the island itself hasnt changed too much -still has all the beautiful scenery and beaches and water-just more built up ..still a fun/beautiful place to visit… IMHO you just cant let your hair down as much as you use too…. got to be alot more on guard of everything..

FYI…many "things' do not make it to the internet….many crimes, etc are NEVER reported and you certainly wont find them all on the online gleaner, etc… just because you dont see them Here-doesnt mean they didnt happen..the people that visit this site are only a small group out of the thousands that visit jam.- so to think that the only incidents that happen are what is reported here is ridiculous…

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by suzengrace

FYI…many "things' do not make it to the internet….many crimes, etc are NEVER reported and you certainly wont find them all on the online gleaner, etc… just because you dont see them Here-doesnt mean they didnt happen..the people that visit this site are only a small group out of the thousands that visit jam.- so to think that the only incidents that happen are what is reported here is ridiculous…

---

Suzen,

You are apparently misinformed about the number of visitors to Negril.com. In the year 2012, we had about 405,000 unique visitors to the Negril.com site. In 2012. Negril had a total number of about 415,000 visitors.

The total visitor numbers to Negril for last year are not in yet, but since Jamaica broke the 2 million overnight guest last year for the first time, guesstimates are that nearly half a million should have visited our small resort town of Negril last year.

Negril.com received about 520,000 unique visitors last year, and once again our site traffic should be very close to the total number of actual visitors to Negril. For people coming to Negril who have internet access, which is virtually every single one of them, Negril.com is very easy to find.

And the vast majority of visitors do find it. We are the single largest Negril based information source on the internet, second to none. That is a fact that can be verified by the various internet ranking services. There is no other Negril focused website that comes near our visitor traffic.

Because of cellphones, smartphones, Negril.com, Twitter, Facebook, OGNR, the Gleaner, the Observer, the Star, Youtube, personal blogs, Tripadvisor, visitors own local newspapers and countless other resources available to everyone on the internet at a moment's notice, there are very few real incidents (along with a few fake ones) that do not make it to the internet nowadays. And with Negril.com being the largest Negril information source available, the true incidents do tend to make it here. To think otherwise is not understanding the reality of how invasive and fast information travels in the world today.

Some "incidents" are not reported such as the one recently mentioned by Muzikdoc (now reported) - that was because he didnt want the "fear mongers" to take what he considered a somewhat amusing incident and turn it into a "near robbery" as he he related here.

I am sure that some other incidents do go unreported by the people that it happened to because they simply dont want anyone else to know their business. It should be their right as human beings to choose whether or not what happens to them becomes public or not. Just because something happens to someone else does not mean that you have the right to know about it.

But even some of those stories become public and I have been asked by the alleged victim on a few occasions to remove threads about them and their incident because someone other than themselves had chosen to make it public. They wanted the right to privacy and did not want to have to get into detail and explain the real story since the second hand version being spread and speculated about was far from the truth of what had happened to them. So because of their right to privacy and not to have their lives exposed for the world to gossip about, we do honor their wishes and have removed those few threads.

And we have even had a case recently where a poster claimed to have had things stolen from their room during the night after a small dinner party with just a few friends. Another member was there at the same time and had a completely different take on the incident saying that they couldnt count the number of people who came and went from the room late into the evening where a rather loud open door party was held, a party that you could not miss seeing if you were staying on the property. There were countless opportunities to have items taken anytime during the evening, so to claim a room invasion during the night with no proof stretched credibility.

So the internet information pendulum can swing both ways, to allow people to know the truth about most incidents, and to correct the misinformation, rumor and speculation that often comes with these stories.

As has been said here many times, the Negril rumor mill is alive, well and active. The recent story about a taxi driver messing with a member by saying they missed Shaggy and Tessanne on New Years Eve at the Beach Park being the one that started 2014 off with a bang!

But thanks to modern technology and instant access to the internet, for you to think that there are many crimes that would have any bearing on or concern for tourists that do not make it to Negril.com is only speculation on your part. The facts do not tend to back up your statement. It is only your opinion, which by definition is not a fact.

Seriously? If its not reported here, it didn't happen?

Kikn,

Who said that?

I specifically stated that some events happen but are not reported for various reasons. Please re-read my statement.

But if an incident relating to tourism actually does occur, it will probably be mentioned here as most information ends up here simply because of our large traffic numbers. Because of the internet and how it works, there is no point in trying to stop it. That is such an old way of thinking...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiknback

Seriously? If its not reported here, it didn't happen?

---

I didn't read that! It is too easy to read someone's response quickly and miss words that are key to their communication.

Kiknback, to answer your basic question, it sounds like you have some old friends that you are going to see here and they will be able to orient you for your wider explorations. Have fun! Many people have returned after years away, and from what I have read of those who choose to share their experience they say a lot of the vibe is still here even though many things have changed.

We have a few things that we do, just to feel more secure.
Dont bring anything that we cant afford to lose.
Anything of value is either on our person, or locked in a safe.
Always lock your doors, even if you're on the beach nearby. It only takes a minute, but better safe than sorry.
Dont go off the beaten path at night.
When walking the beach at night, bring a flashlight. For visibility, but also, if being bothered, no one expects a bright light in their face. They leave you alone after that.
As many others have stated, use common sense like you would at home.

You seemed to suggest Suzan was incorrect when she said many incidents go unreported here.

I think she has a point.

And then you state several incidences that have been deleted here for various reasons.

I think that simply re-enforces her point.

"for you to think that there are many crimes that would have any bearing on or concern for tourists that do not make it to Negril.com is only speculation on your part. The facts do not tend to back up your statement."

I disagree.

Kikn,

I am suggesting that Suzan is incorrect and misleading people, trying to pass off her opinion as fact.

And you have the right to disagree. But do you know first hand of many real, actual tourist incidents that have not been reported here?

And I did not say several threads were deleted, but "a few" and those few", not "several" as you state. And they have only been deleted for one reason, the victim's right to privacy issues and not for "various reasons" as you claim. Please re-read my post.

But for the staff of Negril.com to attempt to hide true incidents would not only be futile but also undermine the credibility of Negril.com which would be counterproductive to our business.

As mentioned in our easy to read guidelines, items that have no basis on tourism as well as rumor and speculation that have no basis in truth are of course removed as they should be because they serve no useful purpose at all. The Negril rumor mill can invent all kinds of amazing fictional stories. You cant blindly believe everything you read on the internet. Read Snopes sometime - even major news outlets can be led astray by fictional stories.

But it would be easier for the staff of Negril.com to try and stop the sun from rising than trying to not have the truth reported here. But we do have the advantage of knowing nearly everyone in town, which makes it very easy to quickly determine what is true and what is fiction.