Another way to answer...

I have been asked my impressions of how things have been going during the Dream Weekend parties and now with the new curfew hours. My general feeling is that many people in Negril are struggling to the point of resigning themselves to learn to live with Covid. The stress, tension, lack of money and jobs is real and is coming to a boiling point.

In the Observer today, a friend of mine, Ryan Morrison expressed essentially the same ideas, but in a much more economic way. Here is his quote:

"Morrison, a former banker, argued: “If a man has a business place and he places his house on the line by using it for a mortgage, his car is on the line, his investment is on the line, his investment is 100 per cent on the line and the recovery rate of COVID is 95 per cent. So, I have a five per cent chance of dying, but I have a 100 per cent chance of losing my house; I am going to take the chance with the COVID.”

Through our small business contribution project, we have been able to help several small business remain open as well as provide thousands of US$ for St. Anthony's Kitchen. There will be more news coming shortly about this project, so please, if you are able, contribute to the cause at https://negrilstore.com

Here is a link to the full article:

https://www.jamaicaobserver.com/ente...ut-west_228491

The whole world has lost sight of the fact that the mortality rate from Covid is much, much, much lower than was anticipated at the start, when we knew very little about the virus. In the US, the mortality rate is less than 1% but you would never know it. More people are dying from heart disease on a daily basis than Covid but, yet here we sit with the majority of people scared to death and leaders who don't seem interested in letting people know what is really happening. I'll be visiting from the states in December and I can't wait to get away from Dr. Fauci for a week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lax1724

The whole world has lost sight of the fact that the mortality rate from Covid is much, much, much lower than was anticipated at the start, when we knew very little about the virus. In the US, the mortality rate is less than 1% but you would never know it. More people are dying from heart disease on a daily basis than Covid but, yet here we sit with the majority of people scared to death and leaders who don't seem interested in letting people know what is really happening. I'll be visiting from the states in December and I can't wait to get away from Dr. Fauci for a week.

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Totally agree with you but am always afraid to speak up. Love you for saying this. Meanwhile 4 year olds are being forced to wear masks but that’s a different conversation. We can’t wait for our trip.

Lax1724, what mortality rate is acceptable? Let me guess: not vaccinated, high risk and ready to roll the dice? I hear Hedo is running red hot last minute booking specials.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lax1724

The whole world has lost sight of the fact that the mortality rate from Covid is much, much, much lower than was anticipated at the start, when we knew very little about the virus. In the US, the mortality rate is less than 1% but you would never know it. More people are dying from heart disease on a daily basis than Covid but, yet here we sit with the majority of people scared to death and leaders who don't seem interested in letting people know what is really happening. I'll be visiting from the states in December and I can't wait to get away from Dr. Fauci for a week.

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Some VERY wrong conclusions with that statement.

Doesn't take into effect those that spend weeks in hospital and ICU's recovering from COVID -- taking away hospital beds and resources from those that need the beds and resources for other urgent needs (accidents, other serious illnesses). Some people are dying due to COVID without actually contracting the disease!

Doesn't take into effect long haulers -- who haven't died of the illness, but are still suffering (and unable to work, etc) months after not dying (even though they didn't contribute to the mortality numbers, they haven't recovered).

Doesn't take into account the differences in available ICU bed (etc) in USA vs JA.

The "what is really happening" comment is very inappropriate. What's really happening is that Jamaican hospitals are filling up:

According to Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Health and Wellness, Dunstan Bryan, the situation has forced them to recall some healthcare workers from vacation, particularly for the western region, which is the hardest hit.

From the Gleaner on Aug 9:

https://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/...ealth-ministry

"Data from the health ministry has revealed that admissions at the University Hospital of the West Indies are at 100 per cent; Cornwall Regional Hospital is at 110 per cent; Spanish Town Hospital is at 160 per cent; May Pen Hospital is at 108 per cent; Mandeville Hospital is at 160 per cent; Sav-la-mar Hospital is 167 per cent and St Ann’s Bay Hospital is at 135 per cent."

The government may have a hard time "calling back" some of the doctors. Please read the full article from the Observer yesterday for whole story...

Doctors Depart

More than half of the 143 doctors who were last month left jobless after their contracts with State-run facilities were not renewed have moved on to brighter prospects, even as the Government — now faced with caseloads which outmatch manpower — says it is heading to Cabinet to get approval to create more posts.

Jamaica Medical Doctors Association (JMDA) President Dr Mindi Fitz-Henley told the Jamaica Observer yesterday that a number of the axed medics have left the country, others have found jobs outside of the public sector, while some were taken back by the Government. She said only 52 doctors of the 143 still remain unemployed.

https://www.jamaicaobserver.com/fron...dispute_228490

Wow that is not good news for the Doctor situation in JA … I hope something can be done to improve that … I wished their was more balanced messaging on this also .. If you catch this get treatment early don’t wait especially elderly or underlying conditions..

My conclusions are based on how many people have died from Covid and do not include how many people have died because of Covid lockdowns (suicides, overdoses, lack of screening, etc.). Transmission rates are highest indoors yet, we are forcing people in doors. Is a zero mortality rate an achievable goal? Is that what we are shooting for?

I can only assume you have lost no one to this very real, world wide, pandemic. In which case you are very lucky. Many of us are not so lucky. You will probably not enjoy the protocols put in place by the Jamaican Health Ministry. They are based on a balance of science (you know Fauci like) and the needs of the Jamaican people. We have visited 3 times since the pandemic began and each time have been extremely impressed with how hard everyone worked to keep tourists safe. Unless more people will vaccinate this is never going away and Jamaica as we know it can’t survive. And yes everyone is tired of Covid!

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Originally Posted by Rumlover

I can only assume you have lost no one to this very real, world wide, pandemic. In which case you are very lucky. Many of us are not so lucky. You will probably not enjoy the protocols put in place by the Jamaican Health Ministry. They are based on a balance of science (you know Fauci like) and the needs of the Jamaican people. We have visited 3 times since the pandemic began and each time have been extremely impressed with how hard everyone worked to keep tourists safe. Unless more people will vaccinate this is never going away and Jamaica as we know it can’t survive. And yes everyone is tired of Covid!

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I think you can be fully vaccinated and compliant with all the protocols but still be in disagreement. In my opinion the strict mandates that are required for the vaccinated now will make people think twice about getting it. But that’s just my opinion. The Jamaican people are desperate for normalcy as the protocols are affecting them economically and emotionally. I understand the reason for having them but like I said before there is a breaking point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lax1724

The whole world has lost sight of the fact that the mortality rate from Covid is much, much, much lower than was anticipated at the start, when we knew very little about the virus. In the US, the mortality rate is less than 1% but you would never know it. More people are dying from heart disease on a daily basis than Covid but, yet here we sit with the majority of people scared to death and leaders who don't seem interested in letting people know what is really happening. I'll be visiting from the states in December and I can't wait to get away from Dr. Fauci for a week.

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So help me out here. The population of the USA is about 331.5 million and 1% have died because of covid.....That's over 3 million, men, women, children, brothers, sisters, mom's, dad's and babies. Obviously no one close to you have died due to covid or you'd have a better understanding of what is going on in the world. My doctor told me the other day that a 32 year old completely health man has just being put on a life flight to our capital due to covid. He is not expected to recover, but if he does, he will need a heart transplant. That kinda hits home with me because he is married with 3 kids, but you don't know this guy so why would you care right!

Before you start tell us that the moon landing were fake too, please please cancel your stay in Negril and stay at home. Jamaica (and Negril) is struggling but I really don't need you sitting at the bar stool next to me tell me how covid is no big deal. If you want to help, stay at home and buy a support Negril tee shirt

Well said brownsd54. LAX 1724, if our leaders "don't seem interested in letting people know what is really happening" why don't you enlighten us? BTW, I don't remember ever hearing a report about "heart disease" overrunning a single ER or hospital system let alone killing an otherwise healthy young person in a matter of days. Yet our hospitals here in New Orleans are overrun and it's certainly NOT by heart disease. You ARE right that in the beginning we knew very little about the virus but now we do. We also didn't have vaccines then. Now we have successful vaccines and we know that mask mitigations work. So, what's your point?

Quick question , if the masks and vaccines and lockdowns are working so well , then why are we still at this point nearly 2 YEARS later? By the way I am vaccinated , pfizer , after a lengthy appt and conversation with my doctor, my choice but my employer was pretty pushy about the vaccines also. It's fine if you still believe the masks are an effective strategy, go ahead and wear it if it makes you feel comfortable , but why be so aggressive about it or to someone that might have a differing view point or just raises a question? It's to the point you can't have a different opinion without being chastised , name called , or censored. Information and knowledge are the best tools and then personal choices can be made more easily. Maybe just speak for yourself instead of projecting your fears on others but more importantly intruding on others beliefs or rights. It's been politicized to the point that millions no longer trust the message from the powers that be all over the world not just in the USA. Or to put it bluntly as many others seem to do , if you want to wear a mask cool do your thing but don't get in my face about it. You do you and I'll do me.

I want to step in for a moment.... is not every life equally important?

I am not taking sides because this pandemic infects random people, and that is truly scary.

But the ASS U ME seems to be taking over. How does anyone know that LAX hasn't known someone who died from Covid? That is a bad ASS UMPTION to make.

Billions, if not trillions have been spent fighting Covid. Over four million people have died. Every single death is tragic. Many preventable.

But as a sobering figure, according to United Nations, 10,000 children die of starvation every day. Every single day. That is over 6 million children who have died during the same time period from simply a lack of food. One million dollars would have saved millions of them, a billion would have saved them all.

I am 61 with underlying conditions. I care about everyone who has contracted Covid. But I am deeply disturbed and disgusted that the media never mentions that we could save more people than who have died from Covid with simple milk and rice. No need for a warp speed vaccine, just distributing milk and rice.

Food for thought....

Rob-

I can only hope that you will not be asked to move from Negril now that you posted that! I am not a virus denier. I am fully vaccinated and wear a mask where and when required. EVERYONE knows someone that died of covid. It has killed over 600,000 people in the US out of 36,300,000 recorded cases. You can succumb to the fear mongering that is being shoved down our throats and live in fear or, you can actually follow the science that is out there for all to see and make informed decisions based on your own risk assessment. Of course, if you dare to say something out loud, the folks that have caved to the fear mongering will accuse you of all kinds of things. God forbid someone have a dissenting opinion in today's world. Speaking of Dr Fauci, did anyone hear the answer when he was asked if masks would have long term negative effects on children? His answer was, "we hope not." Thanks Dr Fauci, we all feel better now.

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Originally Posted by Lax1724

Rob-

I can only hope that you will not be asked to move from Negril now that you posted that! I am not a virus denier. I am fully vaccinated and wear a mask where and when required. EVERYONE knows someone that died of covid. It has killed over 600,000 people in the US out of 36,300,000 recorded cases. You can succumb to the fear mongering that is being shoved down our throats and live in fear or, you can actually follow the science that is out there for all to see and make informed decisions based on your own risk assessment. Of course, if you dare to say something out loud, the folks that have caved to the fear mongering will accuse you of all kinds of things. God forbid someone have a dissenting opinion in today's world. Speaking of Dr Fauci, did anyone hear the answer when he was asked if masks would have long term negative effects on children? His answer was, "we hope not." Thanks Dr Fauci, we all feel better now.

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Omg I know.! For developmentally delayed children especially it is debilitating. I feel so bad for my children but like you i comply. I think unless you have small children it’s hard to understand. I have worked with my 4 year old for more than a year to get her adapted to mask wearing. She’s a pro now but I’m worried that at some point she’ll get fed up and stop wearing it then all hell will break loose.

Her first real haircut lol.

If Walter Cronkite were alive today, he wouldn't be happy with the evening news!
The Fourth Estate (news/media) chases ever dwindling profits and not the truth.
I'm located in west of Boston. The Greater Boston area has evolved into a major hub of Biosciences covering the full spectrum of Life Sciences.
Moderna is just one of many dozens of companies doing business in the Bio arena.
One of my clients with several advanced degrees in the Biosciences has said from the very beginning of the COVID Era, "It only takes this virus to mutate the wrong way once and we are all dead".
The Delta variant is highly contagious, what if the next variant is just as transmittable, but even more deadly!!
Get vaccinated and wear a mask, if not for you, do it for the children that haven't been vaccinated yet.

Rob, great idea with the fund raiser, I'm wearing my t-shirt at a Caribbean themed party I'm attending next week and I'll also be wearing a mask.
The cook is from Jamaica, so I'm hoping for some pumpkin soup!!

Enjoy,

VVHT

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Originally Posted by Jambarney

my choice but my employer was pretty pushy about the vaccines.

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Jamb, I'm guessing Badnaz had to twist your arm!!! :)

All the best, until we cross paths again on da rock!

VVHT

For all those complaining about children needing masks, hey, I'm with you. But I'd rather my child wear a mask than to get sick or even worse. He didn't want to wear seat belts, a bike helmet or life preserver at sea, but I made him wear those too. Tough love.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lax1724

My conclusions are based on how many people have died from Covid and do not include how many people have died because of Covid lockdowns (suicides, overdoses, lack of screening, etc.). Transmission rates are highest indoors yet, we are forcing people in doors. Is a zero mortality rate an achievable goal? Is that what we are shooting for?

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FWIW, while right wing media frequently mentions how suicides could increase because of the reduction measures, the actual statistics show suicides have generally DECREASED during COVID.

Zero would be great, but the goal is to REDUCE the deaths bu any number greater than zero. The more people don't die, the better.

Vaccines will help the most -- but until those are readily available to all (long way off in Jamaica) we have to stick with ALL the tools that we have -- distancing, masking, hand sanitizing, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jambarney

Quick question , if the masks and vaccines and lockdowns are working so well , then why are we still at this point nearly 2 YEARS later?

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Because some places, like Jamaica, the vaccine is not readily available. And in places where the vaccines are readily available, not everyone is smart like you and has been vaccinated -- and even in those places, the unvaccinated tend to hang out unmasked in clusters and communities of the unmasked and then unvaccinated and that's NOT the same as a homogenous mix (that's often assumed when "herd immunity" is mentioned).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jambarney

It's fine if you still believe the masks are an effective strategy, go ahead and wear it if it makes you feel comfortable , but why be so aggressive about it or to someone that might have a differing view point or just raises a question?

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Because, like second hand smoke, what people do around me affects MY health. When I see someone unmasked in a place where distancing is not possible, I have to assume (for my safety and that of my family and my co-workers, etc.) that that the umasked person doesn't care about others and is probably unvaccinated as well, and probably hangs out with other unvaccinated and unmasked people. Many of those assumptions are probably wrong more often than not -- but I have no choice. I wear a mask more as a courtesy for others than I do to protect myself. The "others" include staff -- some of whom may have family too young to be vaccinated.

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Originally Posted by Jambarney

It's to the point you can't have a different opinion without being chastised , name called

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I try not to name call -- notice I use "unvaccinated" instead of the terms that I normally use in conversation.

People ARE entitled to their own opinions. People ARE NOT entitled to their own science.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jambarney

Or to put it bluntly as many others seem to do , if you want to wear a mask cool do your thing but don't get in my face about it. You do you and I'll do me.

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Bluntly:

If you don't want to wear a mask, you should stay away from others.

If you don't want to wear a mask, don't go to places that require them. Much like wearing a shirt and shoes in an establishment with a sign that says "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service".

There are studies that show that cloth masks do not do much to stop COVID spread they only stop larger particles… surgical masks are better .. respirators are the most effective

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jamman

There are studies that show that cloth masks do not do much to stop COVID spread they only stop larger particles… surgical masks are better .. respirators are the most effective

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/marke...test-1.5795481

Great article thanks !

Thanks Pachenas for your response and calling me out directly but I wasn't looking for a tit for tat type of deal , that's why I didn't single out anyone's post in my original and why I won't post again in this thread. I appreciate your vast paste and copy expertise of all things covid , mitigation , and science , we are so lucky to have such an expert posting on the board. Your assumptions , concerns and directives about where I travel and whom I around are duly noted. I will give your post about as much consideration as I will my next drink of cold redstripe beer. Have a great day and once again you do you and I'll do me.

IslandLynn,

Your last post was removed for blatant name calling as well as other issues.

Please tone down the rhetoric...

Thank you.

Right this is your castle. Got it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jamman

There are studies that show that cloth masks do not do much to stop COVID spread they only stop larger particles… surgical masks are better .. respirators are the most effective

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Agree 100%.

COVID travels on liquid droplets, most of which are captured by most masks.

So, even a mediocre mask is better than no mask. And a properly worn mediocre mask is much better than a poorly worn surgical mask.

Exhaust valve type masks are an exception -- they do NOTHING to prevent the spread (protect the wearer only) and aren't approved for wearing while flying (at least in Canada).

At the end of the day, can we trust anything that we read or hear? My gut tells me, no. That is where critical thinking comes in. We all have the ability to use it but it is easier to just listen to what we are being told and then regurgitate it on social media than it is to put in the effort to really try to understand what is happening. It is also much easier to attack people with opposing views than it is to try to understand where they are coming from. The irony is that Negril is a place for me to go to get away from my every day life. Now, I'm being told I should cancel my vacation because someone doesn't like my views. Jeez.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob

Billions, if not trillions have been spent fighting Covid. Over four million people have died. Every single death is tragic. Many preventable.

But as a sobering figure, according to United Nations, 10,000 children die of starvation every day. Every single day. That is over 6 million children who have died during the same time period from simply a lack of food. One million dollars would have saved millions of them, a billion would have saved them all.

I am 61 with underlying conditions. I care about everyone who has contracted Covid. But I am deeply disturbed and disgusted that the media never mentions that we could save more people than who have died from Covid with simple milk and rice. No need for a warp speed vaccine, just distributing milk and rice.

Food for thought....

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Absolutely agree. Unfortunately the people with the money decide what's important enough to spend the money (resources on).

Also, unfortunately, the pandemic is occurring at the same time as the starvation (which is mostly due to anthropogenic climate change). Sadly, the eye-opening UN report from a couple days ago has already disappeared from the headlines.

We do have the ability to do things in parallel -- it doesn't have to be either/or. "The Vaccine" is the proven answer for the COVID issue, but Unfortunately some countries are now going to start giving out booster (3rd) doses of vaccine before much of the world (including Jamaica) even has their first dose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lax1724

Now, I'm being told I should cancel my vacation because someone doesn't like my views. Jeez.

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Opinions and views are mostly irrelevant.

Actions are what matters.

One's actions should not increase the chances of causing someone else to get sick.

Respect -- It's more than just a word.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThePachenas

Absolutely agree. Unfortunately the people with the money decide what's important enough to spend the money (resources on).

Also, unfortunately, the pandemic is occurring at the same time as the starvation (which is mostly due to anthropogenic climate change). Sadly, the eye-opening UN report from a couple days ago has already disappeared from the headlines.

We do have the ability to do things in parallel -- it doesn't have to be either/or. "The Vaccine" is the proven answer for the COVID issue, but Unfortunately some countries are now going to start giving out booster (3rd) doses of vaccine before much of the world (including Jamaica) even has their first dose.

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I think you misunderstood what I meant, please read the 2018 press release about 2017 and prior years child starvation numbers (pre pandemic and pre climate change talk) from UNICEF.

Here is the link, make note of the 1990 numbers...

https://www.unicef.org/press-release...orld-un-report

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThePachenas

Opinions and views are mostly irrelevant.

Actions are what matters.

One's actions should not increase the chances of causing someone else to get sick.

Respect -- It's more than just a word.

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My opinion is that based on your actions/words, you're kind of mean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lax1724

My opinion is that based on your actions/words, you're kind of mean.

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Seriously. Lax didn’t you know you can no longer have a civil discourse if opinions don’t mesh. You get called names and attacked by people who claim to embrace love and kindness. It’s a crock of crap. And sad.

And for the life of me I have no idea how vaccine even entered the conversation. My friend is not anti-vaccine, just anti-starvation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob

And for the life of me I have no idea how vaccine even entered the conversation. My friend is not anti-vaccine, just anti-starvation.

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Me neither!! Totally for it.

I mean vaccination not starvation. Sorry I’ve had like 5 rum punches.

Respect. That is the first thing I learned about Jamaica and from Jamaica many years ago. We need more of that in this world. The one thing I like about Jamaica is once I get there, the discussions about politics, religion ect don't seem to really be on the table. Most of us when we get there are in our happy place. My kids and I love meeting new people and hanging out with old friends. More respect and kindness for each other is what's needed in this world, not people hating on each other over differing opinions on vaccinations, covid or whatever. Irie everyone!

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Originally Posted by fargoman

Respect. That is the first thing I learned about Jamaica and from Jamaica many years ago. We need more of that in this world. The one thing I like about Jamaica is once I get there, the discussions about politics, religion ect don't seem to really be on the table. Most of us when we get there are in our happy place. My kids and I love meeting new people and hanging out with old friends. More respect and kindness for each other is what's needed in this world, not people hating on each other over differing opinions on vaccinations, covid or whatever. Irie everyone!

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Beautifully said, Fargoman!

As a whole Jamaicans are very passionate in their discussions about politics etc...but also know there's a time & place for these conversations.