Plant breakdown??...lol. That is raw sewage. Plain and simple.
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Plant breakdown??...lol. That is raw sewage. Plain and simple.
Seeing that run off or whatever it was kept us out of the water. It was somewhat entertaining watching it move north while people got out of the water like a slow moving shark was coming toward them. Maybe tourists should be educated so they don't fear the runoff or dung.....
rob, no disrespect, but the same conditions require the same reply . . . i'm not talking about hear say, i'm talking about what i experienced first hand . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Sorry you are confused. The "plant breakdown" means plant material/foliage breakdown, not the water treatment plant. That is not raw sewage - it is just like tea leaves that produce the color of the tea. The water treatment plant is in full working condition thus there is no raw sewage. That is the plain and simple truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaherring
Jitterbug.Quote:
Originally Posted by JitterBug
I am talking first hand experience, I was there too. My reply was written in November 2012 based on what you and I both experienced in November 2012.
What you smelled was the rotting seaweed. It can produce an obnoxious odor. That smell would be there even if the river water hadnt been there. And if you remember correctly, the odor lasted for a few days after the water cleared.
So what you have done is to take two separate occurrences that happened simultaneously, the rotting seaweed and the river water and and came to the wrong conclusion. They are entirely two separate events and happened independently of each other.
People who witnessed this recent one as I did first hand all noted that there was no smell. That was because there was no rotting seaweed this time as we did not have rough seas to wash seaweed onto the beach. For your conclusion to be correct, there would have a horrible smell noted - which eyewitnesses said there was not. They experienced it first hand just as I did.
And I experienced both cases first hand.
I believe Rob is right on this one. There is no way enough raw sewage to color a whole shoreline would be seeping onto the beaches of Negril.
Well, I don't live there (yet), but I have observed fuel spills on the river as well as numerous dead fish. It is a fact that there is a sewage treatment plant up river and I would never swim in that "river come down" water. (In fact, even if the water appears crystal clear it could still be contaminated with any number of things.) River clean up and sewage plant monitoring are necessary. Is there any testing of the water that is ongoing? Heavy rains + high season tourists = more monitoring. run gone to do more research....
Goldilocks,Quote:
Originally Posted by goldilocks
Mike D has already answered this - the link he posted explains that Negril's water treatment plant is equal to how water is treated in first world countries and there is no raw sewage in the river.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_D
Yes, I've read rjonsun's report in it's entirety, as well as researched other sources. I stand by my opinion. :cool:
So your swimming in it right Rob?Everything A OK right?Looks like you have had a lot of rain lately and the **** ponds have dumped into the river.The same thing happens in North America.It rains ,down the street drain, to the sewage treatment plant and if it can't handle the overflow it gets dumped into the river.Done.
Dana1,
We have been getting much more rain than normal for this time of the year - it is usually dry season. But this is nothing compared to our real rainy seasons, which would dump as much rain in a couple days as we have gotten over the past few weeks. And it has been nothing at all like a tropical storm which dumps much more water.
It is all relative. Yes, there has been more rain than normal, but I dont think that there has been enough rain to have overflowed the treatment plant ponds. During rainy season we get much more rain and the treatment plant was designed with that in mind. You can google that information for yourself on the internet. It is a fact that the plant was designed with rainy season and tropical storms taken into consideration.
The river flowing into the sea happens because it is a river that feeds from the hills beyond the Great Morass and is filtered by that same morass, which gives it the darker color. Its a river, not a lake and flows into the sea as it has for hundreds if not thousands of years.
Hey, I got an idea. How about rather than produce only rumors and speculation - back up your statement with some facts. What is your proof that the treatment ponds have overflowed? Do you have any at all - or are you just making this up.
I drive to MoBay and back quite often. I cross the river in Lucea which empties into the bay and the one as you enter St. James which empties into that bay. Every time it rains the bays are discolored--just like here. And we've been getting a lot of rain. Depending on the current the river water from the Negril River heads toward the west end and sometimes it heads down the beach. My brother lived in Galveston, TX, for years and I visited. We joked about the "brown caps." The Gulf Of Mexico receives the water which flows from "The Big Muddy," the Mississippi River. Because of the prevailing current the "discoloured" water heads West and towards Galveston so the Gulf there is often brownish. It ain't sewage! Stop that rumor! --Fadder Jim
I used to stay at that end of the beach alot..and I have seen this and been in it a number of times..It is def water Runoff from the river...It will not hurt you..(I mean I wouldn't drink it) but contact wont hurt you..it clears up very quickly. Sewage would sink to the bottom and stay there.
Fred Strip---the water at the RIU Club is in a cove where the water tends to sit, it doesnt get washed in and out with the waves so Algae is going to grow there..the algae won't hurt you either...
Hey i got a idea.Maybe these peeps are also spreading rumors.I'll pass on the day trip to the $hit ponds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptQXyQzdVP8
A news video from 2012 in which the problems then were addressed and fixed back in 2012 is your proof that the treatment plant overflowed this past week? Are you joking or do you really have no proof at all and are simply making this up?
That's dated July 2012 and I was there at the time. I'm pretty sure they've fixed that
One morning next week I'm going to talk with fishermen I know and find out.
Just thinking about it........................It did that when I worked the beach so it ain't new......
Sounds to me like a whole bunch of tourists who spend a few days a year in Negril think they know more about this than someone who has lived there for a lot of years and who obviously has done his personal research.
Call it "Yellow Journalism" or "muckraking" (pun intended) doing Google searches for information and then posting old stories and links about a problem that occurred almost two years ago and likening it to something that occurred last week seems a little weak.
Like it has been said before, "Go to Negril once and be considered a 'Newbie' but go to Negril twice and consider oneself an 'Expert' and ready to know how tings agwaan"
Rob is trying to "clear up" (again pun intended) the rumors and misinformation and, as of yet, I see no credible evidence that this is anything other than what he stated. You can think and suppose and wonder all you want about this or any topic but "facts are facts" and I don't expect Rob, BnewB or anyone else to swim in the river or in the Caribbean sea near the effluent. And the fact that they don't does not mean that it is sewage they are trying to avoid.
Just my opinion.
Peace and Guidance
Attaboy ping pong!! Let me pat you on the back.
I read rjonsun's post and since I started this thread and have been away for about 24 hours I would like to say any of us can speculate what the coloration in the water is caused by tannic or sewage or a combination of both.
The only determining factor since there is a sewage facility up river, would be when these events occur if someone tested the water leaving the river and at the effected beach areas and posted the lab results for the public. It is not uncommon for beaches in the US or elsewhere to be closed for swimming if conditions of any kind pose a hygienic or safety danger to the public.
Is anyone doing this?? Do they come from Mobay and do testing and post a public notice?
Quote:
"rjunson wrote: Finally, what does this all mean to the Negril River, the ocean, the reef and the swimmers? Good question. The workers at the plant had no knowledge of any effluent parameters or lab results. They said that someone came weekly from Montego Bay to collect samples. I noticed that there was no chlorine or disinfection at the point where the water enters the river. The pan system is supposed to disinfect, but I'm not sure to what extent. A fecal coliform would have to be taken to find out how well it is working. For instance, Ocean City, New Jersey has a maximum fecal coliform of 200. If a 200 count is found on any of the beaches they are sut down. At the plant I work at our maximum is also 200, however our twice a week samples average less than 5. I would have to do more research, but I don't think that the pans do much to lower phosphate (from soaps), ammonia or nitrates (from urine). In fact a byproduct of pans are the massive amounts of algae that they produce. If someone will do the research and find test results for: fecal coliform, pH, turbidity, Dissovled oxygen, Phosphates, Nitrates, Nitrites, and BOD, I will compare them to US standards to find out how well they are doing.
Regards,
Bob"
Good post Acc.
Excellent post Accompong!
Why are some folks so argumentative & wanting to create drama where it doesn't exist.
I propose a solution to this back-and-forth "is it or isn't it" discussion.
How about if we all (at least those who care) put up a dollar and have a water testing kit purchased and have someone take a sample.
If it comes out to be "crap" - then post that as a fact.
If it comes out to be "pee" - then post that as a fact.
If it comes out (as Rob stated) - then let's post that result and call it a "fact" for all time to come.
You can Google "water test results for Negril River" which I just did and get nada, zip, nothing of consequence. But, in the meantime lets put it in the "things to do tomorrow" file drawer before we can actually fill in the blanks and solve this non-Agatha Christy worthy whodunit.
Just a piece of levity to brighten up you otherwise boring day spent on the computer. :p
Peace and Guidance
I know for a fact that there's pee in water. My bad.
Testing and publicly posting. We must have been posting at almost the same time. But should this not be covered by someone besides the tourist, like Negril tourism or Jamaica tourism commissions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Accompong
Trust me, Folks, to say that it isn't sewage if it doesn't smell like sewage. I'm an expert because I used to work in the overflowing sewage capital of the world.
All the same, I still hope the murky river water will be gone by time I get to Negril next month.
I am quoting from the journal I wrote back in 1973 while visiting Negril. Remember, there were only a handful of places to stay, no resorts, only a couple of restaurants and stores. There was only spotty water and electric and you had to go to Sav to change money. Negril only had a small population and most of them lived in Red Ground. There would be very little sewage problem because there were so few people. This is what I wrote:
"Sept 19 1973 ....at 11:30 I blew up my raft and floated to the 6 tall pine trees at the Sugar Company Limited. The water was pretty dirty so we walked down the beach maybe a mile. The dirty water was chasing us down the beach, so we split back to Red Ground."
"Friday September 21, 1973 When he got to the roundabout he said the water was too dirty. I went to the beach. It was brown, maybe 2 miles down the beach."
So long before there were thousands of tourist in Negril, the Negril river was occasionally making the ocean and beach area brown.
Regards., Bob
This is the real thing in Kandahar, Afghan!
Attachment 33647
Yes but how many people were pooping in the river near Sheffield in those days? Thats the unknown
It's honestly not bad. A lot of good bacteria decomposes sewage very quickly and our noses are very very good at detecting things like that. Where do you suppose all the sewage goes from all those resorts on the beach?
Jackie and I didn't know there was a toilet at sunny side until this most recent trip.
As rjonsun stated, the water is tested weekly by regulators that come from Montego Bay. According to the NWC (National Water Commission):
"Our Regulators
In addition to the Ministry of Water, Land, Environment and Climate Change and the provisions of the NWC Act, the National Water Commission is regulated in different areas and to different degrees by a number of different entities.
The island's surface and sub-surface water resources are regulated by the Water Resources Authority (WRA) which is the agency established by statute for this purpose. Other bodies that regulate the NWC are the Office of Utilities Regulation (OUR), the Ministry of Health, National Environment and Planning Agency (NEPA), the Jamaica Bureau of Standards, the Ministry of Labour, and the Factories Act."
http://www.nwcjamaica.com/REGULATORS.asp
Here is the link to the Water Resource Authority:
http://www.wra.gov.jm/
And here is the link to the NEPA site:
http://www.nepa.gov.jm/
And their link to their marine (sea) water standards:
http://www.nepa.gov.jm/standards/wat...ard_marine.pdf
If you check out these sites as well as the others listed in Our Regulators section of the National Water Commission, you will see that there are many regulations, standards and guidelines that must be followed.
And other than the very few properties that still use a septic tank system (the old Elephant Cesspool trucks that were seen daily are a thing of the past), all the resorts and hotels are connected to the new sewage system.
Until I hear about something like this being done I am treating everything I hear from both sides as pure rumor.Quote:
Originally Posted by kylake
Flip you are killing me!its a good thing to laugh out loud:)
Thank you, Rob. I am glad to see they do this right in Jamaica.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/on-th...21708444539050
A likkle update from the Government.
Thought you might like to read this.
Peace and Guidance
nuthin new...water run off the morass...same thingy as mi saw back in the 80's....
wi have had some seagrass in da wata on da Cliffs of late......nuthin new there as well....
when wi get some good showers.....this all can be expected......
swimming as of yesterday was excellent here on da Cliffs and da Beach...
Cool Runnings, Marko
The press release from 2012 by the NWC that Accompong posted does come down hard on NEPA for having no scientific basis for their 2012 claims, and that they were ignoring other and obvious causes such as the mouth of the river being virtually blocked:
"The National Water Commission also wishes to point out that the Negril Wastewater Treatment Ponds were recently rehabilitated and are now, based both on the empirical scientific data and easily observable aesthetic presentations, operating at a much improved level. Our preliminary analysis of the Chemical Oxygen Demand (COD) from discharged effluent from the ponds indicates that the ponds are not contributing negatively to the health of the river.
In fact, while NEPA has provided no scientific basis for its allegation, the ponds are teeming with a large, healthy fish population, a normal biological indicator of the health of a pond. NWC's on-going monitoring over the past month also shows no evidence of untreated sewage being discharged into the South Negril River from the wastewater ponds.
Furthermore, it would appear from the statement issued by NEPA that no other possible cause of pollution has been or is being considered even in the face of clear evidence that many other activities in the area impact the river and that the virtual blockage of the mouth of the river could also contribute to poor water quality."
But to be fair to NEPA, the organization did not have adequate resources back in 2012 and has received additional funding in November of last year for more monitor and testing:
"Peter Knight, Chief Executive Officer at NEPA, said that the Agency welcomes the injection of funding from TEF to address the planning and environmental problems in the resort town.
The funds, he noted, will allow the Agency to deploy three additional enforcement officers who will: monitor facilities with environmental permits and licenses issued by the Natural Resources Conservation Authority (NRCA) and enforce regulations under the Wild Life Protection Act.
“The enforcement officers will also enforce the Negril Marine Park Regulations; investigate planning breaches; monitor compliance with planning approvals and monitor environmental incidents which may occur within the Negril Environmental Protection Area,” he said."
http://www.nepa.gov.jm/newscenter/Pr..._in_Negril.asp
So the facts point out that there is more monitoring going on now than ever before and that if there was a breach, the many and varied Jamaican news organizations would be sure to hear and report about it. That is what they do, report the news, actual news. And since government organizations are required to make reports, reporters do have access to this information.
As I have said before, it is impossible to hide real news and even fake news in this day with speed at which information travels because of the internet. But facts are still facts, and if there was a real problem, there would be no way to hide it.
But when the only "proof" of a current event is a 2 year old video and the confusion of taking two separate events and drawing a false conclusion from 2 years ago, it becomes quite obvious that there is no real problem. Why is there no credible news service anywhere reporting on this if it was true? But I guess conspiracy theorists have the answer to that one... (grin)
What happened was just a common, extremely natural occurrence of the rain water coming down the hills and running into a river that flows into the sea as it has done for millennia and will continue to do in the future. It is how how nature works...
Really?! That's probly my most used toilet in NegrilQuote:
Originally Posted by Flipadelphia26
usually just "Went for a swim"Quote:
Originally Posted by TizzyATX
Not me, no way, water is TOO clear!!