I skip the chocolate because I don't need to be eating it, LOL! I do appreciate their entrepreneurial skills.
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I skip the chocolate because I don't need to be eating it, LOL! I do appreciate their entrepreneurial skills.
Bnewb- that's really great that you are offering support and guidance to some of the challenging children you describe. Your first post didn't read like your second one. Thanks for the clarification.
It very often takes just one person caring and believing in a child to help change their life around, so I applaud your efforts.
I know Negril really well too, so felt I needed to advocate for the children who might be given a negative cover story on a public forum. Bad stuff always grows and multiplies often without merit.
goldilocks - I sometimes give in to temptation and eat the chocolate lol.
"I nearly always buy off the children, as even if I've only helped one out of ten children that day eat a meal, then I'm happy with that."Quote:
Originally Posted by Westenders
I contribute to the soup kitchen as I feel it promotes a healthier regime and doesn't encourage begging rather promotes schooling. The groups of children I encountered on the beach on a school day weren't interested in selling. One group of 3 had between them 2 Rasta bracelets that were definitely tattered and recycled. It was just a cover to beg?
Thanks Westenders...but no need to applaud my personal efforts...it's a community effort by all of us that live here!
Maybe it was the second portion of my post that was confusing as I was not referring only to children in that post...but as I said...all age groups.
And don't worry Westenders, both Rob and I advocate for more than just the children here...always fighting to keep the bad stuff from being exaggerated unfairly or out right lies being spread...the truth stands on it's own.
Bnewb- thanks for the reply. Good to know.
Dash - don't you get it? Look at what you said with some empathy, could these children have been desperate? Not all children go to school in JA if their parents can't afford to send them. They were trying to sell something, even if it was tatty. They didn't straight ask you for money, that in my view would be begging. We don't know what these individual kids are experiencing. The beggar label just reinforces stereotypical thinking.
Brill that you donate to st. Anthony,s but they have limited capacity and can't help everyone unfortunately.
yes they r pushy but we agree too that its good they r learning how buisness works and the reward you get from doing it right, we like to buy from them but we also give a good lesson, if they get pushy we walk away . and yes you will get some rude comments then , but they also have learned a lesson.
West, I get it. The scam is to use the tattered bracelet as an approach to beg. As few would buy these items the kids demand money. They are not subtle and don't give up. If more people gave to St Anthony's instead of beggars, more could be done. As you suggested you may have helped only one out of ten children. St Anthony's batting percentage is much much better. This is not stereotypical. The great majority of Jamaican children do not beg. I had not seen this behaviour from kids on the beach before and certainly not in groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westenders
Two kids were walking down the beach with a aloe leaf for sale for 2 bucks,,,I said I would give them 1 dollar as a nice gesture,,,the kid took the dollar and broke the leaf in half ???? I thought it was sad.
The old guy on the beach that sells the fake Blue Mountain coffee with the beautiful daughter dressed in the pretty dress has her "scamming" and I give her stuff then she asks for more or tries to get close to your wifes purse or money on the bar.
I give to those who don't ask.
Obviously we have all had different experiences of this and have different view points. Fair enough. The ones that ask me are always polite and ask.
Dash, what i meant was that I pretty much buy off all the children that approach me, I'm not asked every day, so across the time I'm there if I give to ten children, and say only one was genuine, then I'm happy with that.
Westender,
We all care about the children, and of course the vast majority of children are polite and never beg. Most attend school. But this problem has been happening since late 2012, when the youthful chocolate vendors became much more aggressive in their sales techniques. It was even spoken about directly in a thread in December 2012:
http://negril.com/forum/showthread.p...andy-Bar-Mafia
This nickname has been around along time for this particular group of kids and was well earned.
But as Bnewb has pointed out, we are helping these children when we can to learn how and how not to sell their wares. There is one particular older one (about 12) who listens to our suggestions and does what he can to pass them on to the rest. And each time we talk with him, we always emphasize the fact he should be in school instead. He was really proud to show us the new bike he had bought, so the money he earns does not go for food or school. He looks at himself as a businessman.
They were relentless but they have reduced their swarm tactics as that has proved to be counter-productive to their sales. The older one has helped to teach the younger ones. But there are more now than there was back in 2012. They were pretty much a West End issue then, but they have taken their trade to the beach.
As a suggestion, for each person who feels compelled to buy chocolate from any of these children, please do so but remind them that they can earn much more money in the future if they would attend school. If they hear it from enough people, some may take the advice to heart. They are, for the most part, very sweet children who have been caught up early in a tourist based economy.
Thanks Rob. I think everyone has a soft spot for the kids. Now here is a question that probably only you have the insight to answer. What do you consider to be the best, most efficient way or ways, to contribute to the well being of the children?
To be frank, trying to help the children of Negril and surrounding area as a whole by buying candy bars is like spitting in the proverbial canyon. As you mentiioned, St.Anthony's would be the place that I would and do support. Father Jim raised funds at our recent Boardie Bash to which he is always invited to attend and collect donations as a legal charity.Quote:
Originally Posted by dash
As of April of last year, they have been serving over 150 meals a day.
Besides feeding over 50 children who cannot afford meals before school, they also have their Get Kids To School program which physically transports the kids to school for free. In Feb 2013, they were transporting 36 children to school each day. As an off-shoot of the GKTS (Get Kids To School) program, they also offer a Get Kids Registered program assisting children and parents in obtaining birth certificates and other necessary documents to attend school.
Here is a copy of their post that lets you know how you can help from abroad:
Afternoon Greetings,
Beautiful day in Negril, a little rain earlier cooled things off and it's bright and sunny again now!
Some were asking about sponsoring a child in the Get Kids to School Programme, here is the information:
Introduction
Get Kids to School is a collaborative programme which has been operated by Mary, Gate of Heaven Roman Catholic Church, The Franciscan Friars and the Rotary Club of Negril since September 2011.Whilst most education in Jamaica is provided free, the cost of travel, school meals, uniforms, books etc. is prohibitive to many families. Get Kids to School supports 40 children through assisting with these expenses, with the aim of achieving regular school attendance.
The programme is totally dependent on contributions and got underway with funds provided by the Franciscan Friars in Cincinnati, USA and their benefactors. On-going funding comes from several organisations; primarily a grant from the Franciscan Friars of the Province of Christ the King, in Western Canada,(approximately 80% of the budget), the Rotary Club of Negril and the Franciscan Friars in Cincinnati, USA and their benefactors. The programme also benefits from many individual donations and sponsorships.
The Programme
The need for Get Kids to School arose as many children were present at St. Anthony’s Kitchen for lunch when they should have been in school. It was obvious they were not attending school regularly, if at all. Meetings were held with families in the community to explain the ideas for the programme i.e., achieving regular school attendance with, it was stressed, the cooperation and support of parents. To emphasise their involvement, parents formally acknowledge their responsibility for school attendance and contribute to school expenses. The programme assists with the costs of transportation and school lunches. Outside the main programme subsidised school uniforms, shoes, books and school supplies are provided where these cost are unaffordable to families. A hungry child does not learn so the Kitchen provides breakfast on school days for all the children.
The programme supports 40 children attending 8 different schools. The gross monthly cost of the programme is US$1,500. This cost does not include the expense associated with the Hiace bus that is used to transport some children to school or the cost of breakfast.
Alongside Get Kids to School a complementary programme called Get Registered was launched, its purpose being to assist parents and children to obtain “missing” basic documentation such as birth certificates and identity cards, without which the way is barred to state aid and children face barriers to their education. The funds required are modest and met by Rotary. Get Registered has moved beyond children and adults are assisted in obtaining birth certificates, identity cards, health cards, and TRN numbers.
Desired Outcomes
While we cannot claim 100% success our impact on the local community has been profound with many children regularly attending school, growing in literacy and self-respect. Parents are learning to embrace responsibility for the education of their children. Children are being given the tools they need to move ahead in life with hope for new possibilities and a better life. The programme is young, only two years old, and it has a bright future if we all continue to work together on behalf of the children.
You can help
Contributions can be sent to Mary Gate of Heaven Church or to the Franciscan Friars in Cincinnati - 100% of your contribution go to the Jamaican mission. NOTE: US citizens get a tax deduction.
Mail a check or credit card information to Franciscan Friars, Friar Works / Ministry & Mission, 1615 Vine Street, Cincinnati, Ohio 45202-6492 - indicate your intention for the gift.
Credit Card - Online: www.franciscan.org - select the Donate Tab and in the comment box indicate your intention.
Credit Card - Phone: 1-513-721-4700, ext. 3218.
The cost varies for sponsorship depending on the child. it is more expensive for a high school kid, for example, because of taxi costs. The cost for a high school child is USD $700 to $800 a year (at 10 months a year). That cost includes outfitting the child with uniform, shoes, book bag and some supplies. We are sponsoring currently 42 children; 18 are high school, 21 are All-Age (like elementary) and 3 are basic (kindergarten). All-Age sponsorship is about USD$600/year. Of course, one can sponsor a child for the year. Or, sponsor a child for 1/2 a year, etc. Any amount of sponsorship is very helpful.
The total projected cost of the GKTS programme for this year is USD$15,000. This does not include the cost of outfitting the child or the cost of our school operation which transports quite a few of the All-Age children. We also serve breakfast to about 50 children each morning.
Here is how Canadians can make a donation:
Make a check payable to Franciscan Friars, note the purpose of the gift, and send it to:
Franciscan Missionary Union
St. Michael's Retreat Centre
P.O. Box 220
Lumsden, Saskatchewan
S0G 3C0
Phone: 306-731-3316
Fax: 306-731-3807
The contact person is Fr. Michael Conaghan, ofm.
Thank you all who help support this much needed cause!!! Blessings!
St. Anthony's Kitchen
Hi rob
Thanks for your post. I completely hear what your saying, but I would like to add that not all the children employ these tactics, not all these children don't go to school, and not all are doing it to purchase Luxuary items. I know that you will be aware of that.
I think that your post is very obviously specific to a certain group of youngsters, and it's good you have found a route in through one of the young lads.
I actually don't think that it's a bad thing that these older kids have gotten involved in tourist based economy, after all it is the major economy in Negril, but as long as they are not missing school to sell there wares.
If some are involved in selling stuff for money to buy things like a bike. Absolutely brilliant, as long as again they aren't missing school to do it. I said in an earlier post, it's the same as having a paper round or yard job to earn extra money. A bike is a productive purchase, will help them get to school even.
Maybe if there was a project to help them develop these skills productively, to equip them for work as an adult. Most of the skills they will have are already transferable into a business model.
A few years ago now I delivered a number of programmes in my city to young boys involved in dealing drugs. We worked with them on recognising the skills they already had developed in this role and helped them link into larger programmes that helped them train, develop and grow their own business with start up funding. We had some very good outcomes by working outside of the box.
Their behaviour is not the problem it's the answer to the problem.
Just to clarify that I am not some gullible tourist who feels sorry for these kids. I am new to this forum, but not new to Negril. I have lots of family and friends who live there, my husband grew up in the West End and we spend a lot of time there. We don't come there as tourists or on holiday, it's still home to my husband.
We also support people in a lot of ways when we are there, and from here. Currently building up socks and belts for st. Anthony's kitchen.
I also understand children, especially disadvantaged children, as this is my professional background.
I think I certainly have a different view point, and I don't agree with your first point that "we all care" about the children, because some of the descriptions some people have used are very negative, and see these kids as a problem without further thought than that. That's okay, People can choose their own cause to support, it's just these are children. For me that's the important point. You clearly care and are offering the everyday guidance that these kids need.
You mention buying the candy bars and trinkets as not helping these children or Negril as a whole. I do think it helps the individual children, but as a whole it would take a lot more than that to help the people living in and around Negril. This would have to be something politically driven, or driven by a pro active NGO, which is a much bigger discussion perhaps for another day.
Westender , To use your phrase, Westender, "Don't you get it?" The beach kids were begging plain and simple. They were developing the skills of the con. You do not own all the empathy for the children of Negril. Empathy without action to resolve is hollow. To encourage the different forms of begging truly hurts the children. To assume that some people "see these kids as a problem without further thought than that" is arrogant. The begging is a symptom. Don't feed the addiction. Treat the causes. And contrary to your view I don't know one person that "see these kids as a problem without further thought than that" Not one.
well it comes with the territory with the hussle stuff......whether it happens on the beach or cliffs......
and as some boardie mentioned....at the more expensive places you are less likely to run into a local higgler...
but if you only want to hangout at the most expensive places....
you'll really miss out on the Jamaican experience at the majority of great places to hang in Negril.....
it's part of the Jamaican experience......some of us just deal with it better than others......lol
as far as the children go......some of also deal with them better than others......enuff said
Cool Runnings, Marko
Hi dash
Oh the vent?
What you have said in your last post reinforces every point I have tried to make.
You see it your way, I see it mine.
You said the kids were trying to sell you something. Begging is having your hand out with no more exchange expected other than one party hands money over to another.
Even if they are begging as you describe it, do they deserve your anger, disdain and judgement? Wow...do they really p you off that much?
Empathy without action to resolve is hollow - not in my understanding of the concept of empathy!
I would rather continue doing as I am, helping people in individual ways where I can. That's my way. If I lived there full time I would certainly give my time freely to help in the way Rob is. I do that in small ways already, but not about to start blowing my own trumpet to prove a point. There are lots of people I know that also help communities in and around Negril, none who are members of this forum. Don't make the assumption that others aren't trying to help in different ways with different people.
Youngsters are perceptive, If you respond to them with the same negative attitude as on here, maybe that's why you get their rude 'response'. just a thought!!
As Marko says maybe some people just deal with or react to the situation better than others.
I can honestly say I have never been disrespected by any children involved in this activity, but accept that others may have had a different experience, but a few bad apples don't make a rotten tree.
I can walk through my own city centre at any point and there are young people busking to top up their income while studying, people selling a national magazine for the homeless for commission to get them off drugs and back into work, statues that are really people who jump at you and then shake a collection tin, and people selling things I don't want. All who ask me to contribute almost daily. Do I get angry, do I label them as beggars and nuisances, No! People do what they have to do to get by.
Obviously this is my own viewpoints, don't expect anyone to agree, but hopefully this debate has served a purpose and highlighted the issue for anyone who wants to do something, or not, which is fine also.
You can still respect the fact that the kids are kids, and not be so critical
Westender, I don't know how you have managed to insert anger into this conversation. I don't know where you claim that they disrespected me. At no time did I express anger. This was my 4th trip to Negril in a year and the first time that I encountered these kids begging. And that is exactly what they were doing. As I said after presenting their 2 bracelets and receiving a "no thanks" they started to beg and were not subtle but kept following us past quite a few properties. The fellow boardies with me were seasoned beach walkers and agreed that this was new to them. They were not offering anything but a demand for money. They did not disrespect me, they begged from us after we declined a purchase. They weren't busking or selling anything else. You don't have a viewpoint. You had no view of the event. I was just relating this as it was new to me.
Dash,
I have witnessed the same behavior over the last SEVERAL trips in 2013. First it was on the West End following the One Love bus. Our last trip in December it was on the beach as well. After I refused to buy the begging started and a drunk tourist who I was talking to handed them a baggie loaded with cash. It was all of his money and I pointed it out to him. He grabbed it back, peeled off $200J and told them to beat it. I'm sure this happens often and now these young men have turned into opportunist.
I used to arrest the drug dealers who don't have a job or went to school. But the funny thing was that he would "work" that corner every day on time rain/hail/sleet & snow. He wasn't too smart but could do the math to break up a pound of weed into ounces in 1 minute.
If they used all that energy on a real job they would be employee of the month.
I don't consider the beachwalkers part of the "tourist economy". I buy from a few of the guys (the ones I feel aren't out to try and take advantage of the tourists). A lot of these guys (or kids) on the beach need to go, though. Giving them money, or letting them scam you, just positively reinforces what they are doing, and they will be back tomorrow.
I agree Ryan, but where can they go? I also feel that we can contribute by supporting options. A few extra bucks into St Anthony's at the end of the day. Think about sponsoring a child. (See Robs post) Some of my friends have "adopted a Jamaican family" they get great spiritual returns on that! If you have the time offer a Ting and a pattie to one of them and have a good conversation. That may be hard when they are in groups. And they'll still hit you up for a few bucks after. That's Negril.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanP
Marco, I agree 100%. Some of us just deal with this sort of thing better than others. I witnessed it first hand watching some boardies the other day. Some handled it well and it didnt bother them a bit, others were annoyed and it seemed to put them in a bad mood. One thing I'll do with the kids selling chocolate is tell them I'll give them X amount for Y number of candy and ask them if thats a good deal. How much am I paying for each one? A little math quiz! (I tutor Math in the US) And if you stay in the expensive places, you really do miss out on so much local flavor. I actually prefer the less expensive, local hangouts. I always meet interesting people and end up having a great time!
BTW: I also volunteer at Negril All Age School as a tutor 4 days a week 9am to noon. I love what St. Anthony's is doing for the community. I just so happen to be an atheist, so I like to work through the Rotary Club of Negril (a secular organization open to all persons regardless of race, colour, creed, religion, gender, or political preference). If anyone is interested they can PM me for more info and I can hook you up some of the people over there.
Don't forget your Donkey Races Midiri. Great fun for a great cause every February.
great pointQuote:
Originally Posted by RyanP
and i am gonna agree with dash....i encountered some of these same kids last year on the pub crawl, near the lighthouse and sir d's....the exact same kids, cuz they now know my wife...and as many of you know, she gives gifts to the kids...now this year, they are on the beach....and some different groups of kids as well...i saw this one boy, working alone, about 8-10...he approached me in town and i stopped to talk to him, he wasnt selling anything, just begging for money.. had some candy in my bag...gave him soemthing, and he immediately started rummageing in my bag...asked him about school, and he said he didnt need school...after i said no thanks on his 3rd or 10th request for money, he bumb*****ted me and went on his way...well i stopped for a minute and this same kid was encountering an older lady...i heard her say, "I said no, i said no yesterday, and i will say no tomorrow, u have been very rude to me after i gave u something everyday last week..." the likkle boy yelled and screamed at her as she walked into the store...
fast forward a couple days...same kid on the beach, my wife with me...i tell wife the story and we are not contributing...she watches him being rude and aggfresive....the kids have also learned the "tie the bracelet to your arm and now it is yours", trick.....the candy is just part of the game...it is not for school, as they are not in school...had a lady say she wasnt givng money, but if you are hungry, lets go eat...they didnt want food, they wanted $$$....
i am not trying to put all these kids in the same group, but the ones dash is talking about are not your typical childen...they are still children, we still gave a little candy out and talk to them, but most get greedy and try to grab more, and then they get rude again...learning bad habits...
Just drop the bracelet to the ground and walk on.
I was really going to stay out of this one, but now I think I feel I can add in. I know the couple groups of small kids that were on the beach that day that Dash was talking about. They went after us aggressively ,even after we politely said we weren't interested. They started following close behind, and literally taunting our group. I felt like this was the first time I felt uneasy with the young boys, Its strange to say that because you get to know how to handle it with grown ups, but this was extreme different behavior than I was use to. Walking back by myself to go the other way, one young boy, and I can say no older than 10, yelled at me, ' hey ladie, do you want me to poke you.' Very unsettling coming out of someone so young,
like some one said, bad habits being learned.
I have never been bothered at Tony's Hut or Yellowbird. two of my favorite stops.
Rondel village you would get no hassle..the security guards will shoo them away..i have stayed there many times,matter of fact i like the hustlers if there is something i like i would buy it ,if you not interested i just say ..no thanks
Love White Sands bar. Never a hassle. Tony's Hut is great. Dennis won't let anyone mash up your visit to Sun Beach. Margaritaville has tight tight security.
Lots of other places too. Maybe it's because of the old factor; but we haven't been pressured for years.
These children are really becoming aggressive. I'm just wondering if they are set up by some of the very bad Negril beach hustlers that may get a "cut" on their take? Unfortunately, some of their family members could be behind it though. This is the very bad abuse of our children and there are many working around the world to stop the exploitation of our children -- Rob and Lisa you do a great job there trying. There are some bad apples and addicts on the beach. These children need to get off the beach and I'm surprised to see this. There are some very "good" rastas with a kind heart on Negril beach and you will know them if I do, who have the love of all and children are the pinnacle for them. I'd be surprised if these kids will be there for very long. It is something I'm going to discuss with my very few local friends when I arrive in July, and I'm sure they know these kids and their 'sad' background, although I won't be in Negril long and I'll see what's happening at a couple of other beaches on the island too. Hats off to everyone with this concern. What JA come to now .. One of the reasons I go to JA is witnessing the love for family and trying to help out at least one child to stay in school. My My !! If this continues, most of the hustlers will be cleared from the beach and licences/ID required. Just like the Jet Skis - banned; until a resolution is found !!
No hassles at Sandy Haven bar .... also try Rondel, Tony's Hut, Chill Awhile and you will not be hassled.
Cosmo's is quite a hike though.
I have to say that as a long time traveler and first time to Negril. The hustling on the beach is bad for business. I understand the plight.....
The West-End was much better, and Rhodes Resort was out of this world.
All the respects, and yah mons and no problems. Seem like just a phony attempt at fleecing tourists.