I feel for you guys. It doesn't happen to me but I see it on the beach
Cap
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I feel for you guys. It doesn't happen to me but I see it on the beach
Cap
Thinking back, I remember how nice the higglers used to be and how they used genuine (or well acted) friendliness to get you to buy their goods. The goods back then were usually handmade or homegrown and although not the highest of quality at times, they were genuine and the kind of things you felt proud to take home as a remembrance of your vacation.
On my first trip, I remember vividly my wife dragging me along to the Vendor's Market to do a little shopping. It was very hot and I was very tired from the night before. The very last thing I wanted to do was look over stuff that I had no intention of buying. I shuffled along behind her and stood back with hands on hips watching her talk and laugh with it seems like every vendor. Buying a little woven basket here and a colorful placemat there; she was having the time of her life and I was hot and irritated to even be there. What I needed was a place to sit preferably in the shade. I noticed a step in front of a shop that would work so I wandered over and asked the middle-aged lady shop owner if I could sit for a spell.
I was shocked when she shook her head in disapproval and went inside only to come out with a wicker chair. She placed it on the small shop verandah and told me to come and sit. I immediately noticed that a lot of people who worked there were watching me to see what I would do. I said thanks and walked up and sat down. She brought out a souvenir hand fan and started to fan me and I noticed out of the corner of my eye that a lot of people were watching so I hammed it up a little but unbuttoning my Hawaiian shirt. She asked me if I was looking for a girlfriend and I pointed over in the general direction of my wife and told her I was married. She said that was no problem and that my wife would say it was okay. I laughed and said she didn't know MY wife.
We joked back and forth a little about meeting later all in good fun. She asked me if their was anything I was looking for and I said a tropical shirt maybe if she had my size. She called over to another stall and an extra large shirt with pineapples was rushed over to my seat. It looked like it would fit and I didn't want to take off my shirt to find out so I asked the price. The two ladies got into a discussion over the price and I could tell that my host was negotiating a better price for me even while she continued to fan my neck.
Just then, my wife came over with a quizzical look on her face and asked me how I was doing. I said fine and introduced her to the two ladies who were by now sizing her up for a matching pineapple printed shirt. Another chair was brought out for my wife and she we both were intermittently fanned by our host. After an hour or so, we were ready to leave. With two pineapple printed shirts and a slightly used fan in hand, we walked back to Secrets Cabin feeling good about our day in the market.
Thats a great story! Much better than our first time..we were told to watch out and be careful and still got taken advantage of. But lesson learned. Now we just say no thank you and respect and move on.
A couple of years ago I was practically surrounded by women with their little stalls all together all expecting me to buy from each of them and they were so aggressive. It was honestly a little scary and our last reach I steered clear of them. It's sad actually, that the more they are in your face the more you will avoid and not buy, but if they relaxed and were more friendly their chances of a sale would increase tremendously.
Accompong, what a wonderful story and after all these years a great memory.
Regards,
Bob
That's a sweet story/memory, Accompong. Thanks for sharing.
also enjoyed the story and it brings me to mention as a over 50 time visitor i love Negril and love the people. i have has maybe 3 bad experiences in all those trips and they were all in the last couple years. this last year was the worst but it was just the one guy and he was an *******.
I had a similar experience at The Jungle. Except what *they* were trying to sell me was not jewelry ... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophie2012
What I noticed this year was that the security guards where we stay were more protective of the guests than in past years. The minute they perceived that a higgler had "outstayed his/her welcome" they were right there making them move on. Similar thing happened to me at a restaurant at lunch time. My companion had gone back to the hotel to get some money to pay the CD vendor and a young higgler approached me. I don't even remember what he was selling, but I said no thank you. He tried to say something else, and the owner of the restaurant (who was sitting in another area but obviously watching closely) lit into him to leave me alone, I had said no.
querty,
I noticed that as well, where I stay, they have a new security guy, and when vendors approach the chairs of the guest, he goes up and stands right next to the chairs, and watched and listens while transactions are made. If it gets to much, he tells them to move on. Also, I always every year, try and walk the beach, the whole beach at least a few times . I always start out at Cosmos. ( I know they are closed now ) I purchase a drink at their bar, and sit outside on the table, and drink it before my walk. When dudes come up and try and talk, the manager, or owner , not sure which, will come up and tell them to move on. I think years of complaining about this has been heard by the hotel owners.
That's a long beach walk, if you mean from Cosmos (now defunct) all way into town. I sometimes take beach walks almost that far, e.g. from Footeprints (on the big-resort end of the beach) to Travellers (on the town end). My approach to avoiding higglers on such a walk is different: Carry nothing! No wallet, no cash, nothing. If a higgler approaches and says he wants to be my friend, he usually loses interest once I tell him I'm carrying no money. So much for "friend". :). If I get thirsty I stop at a hotel bar and ask for a glass of water.
Hey Jojo. I think we might stay at the same place. I found the new guy was overdoing it a little bit. We struck up a conversation with him and he was worried he would not be taken seriously if he did not impose his will in the beginning of his new position. I guess I can understand that. After the two weeks we were there he was getting a better read on the people. Usually daily my wife and I would walk from our hotel down to Nirvana to visit friends and back again. We were parched after that but Paul would fix us up at the bar.:friendly_wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo p
yeah since mi spend most of mi time in Negril....and know the runnings better than some Jamaicans
mi can personally say that the begging and hard sell on foreigners has gotten worse.....even on the Cliffs
these people working you aren't usually from Negril.......they come as far as Kingston to try their luck....
there are 30% less Negril police compared to 15 years ago......and there should be least 30% more police
as far as the Tourist Police go.......dunno what has happened.....but they aren't hardly seen at all these days
wi all know about the crime problem now because of the State of Emergency.....
if mi was to say things have gotten out of control....
most locals and expats and frequent travelers would agree with mi
Respect
Cool Runnings, Marko
Irene...
Yes, I get what you mean, he seems to come on a little to strong, but I assumed it was his first security job, and he was over doing it a bit.....I am sure he will mellow in time, although I do the fact I can leave my stuff around, and it is always watched over..
there are 30% less Negril police compared to 15 years ago......That's a pretty bold statement and I'm not sure if I agree. I have seen more JCF beach patrol walking the beach and on Beach Drive than ever before. Roadblocks up on Cliff Road and patrols on foot all the way up to Rick's. It seems like way more JCF on bicycles and I've seen a lot more motorcycle cops than ever. Just wondering where you got this information Marko. I have met the Superintendent in charge of the Negril police and he said the safety of tourism in the Negril area was a top priority for JCF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko
I thought things seemed more aggressive in certain areas this past trip in Dec. while walking the beach but not enough to keep me from coming back. We're thinking of staying deep west next trip, possibly in Nov. this year. I'm wondering, is there much of a presence with higglers in that location? Thinking of Westender Inn. I actually thought of going there this last trip but opted for the beach again instead but seriously thinking WI for next trip. The more I keep looking into it the nicer it looks.
SVW...
You won't see any higglers "deep West End"...maybe the odd person if you choose to walk the road.
There's not really anything around the Westender, so you're pretty much staying on the property until you want to visit the rest of the West End and/or beach.
You'll then use the Westender's car service or hire a cab when you're ready to go.
Thanks Bnewb. That's what I thought. Sounds pretty relaxing & something different & we can have them take us to the beach when we feel like some action :)
just stating the facts plus what mi see from personal observations......Quote:
Originally Posted by brownsd54
Dr Wykeham McNeill, member of parliament for Western Westmoreland states the fact recently from a stakeholders meeting;
There are now 60 police officers deployed in Negril in 2019...
And in Negril 20 years ago you had over 100 police deployed in Negril.....
And now there are 30 murders a year in in Negril.....and 20 years ago there were 5 or 6 murders a year......
Also retired Deputy Superintendent of Police Arthel Colley told the stakeholders’ meeting;
another factor affecting Negril’s level of control over crime is the lack of trust in the police force.
Cool Runnings, Marko
The thread is about Higglers and people's interaction with them both positive and negative. Somehow it devolves down to murders and crime as if the Higgler's interaction with a tourist has something to do with a tourist getting maimed or murdered by them. No one is saying that murders are not a problem but it is almost exclusively a "Jamaican problem" and Westmoreland Parish is much larger a problem than Negril.
Part of the colorful allure of Negril is the interaction with Jamaicans and Higglers too while on vacation. Discussions about the SOE had a thread and seems a more proper place to discuss that problem.
Marko..
As all the Boardie's and We have spent a lot of time in Negril over the years and love Jamaica and the Culture so much ...
As you say. I totally agree that the Criminal Element has gotten so Bad !! And my Wife and I were certainly affected this Last Trip personally.. That's another story..
Also Mi friends in Town say that that (The Rude Boys) come in from Far and Wide !! To exploit the Tourist's!!
As I said in my original post this needs to be addressed by the Local Town Government...
Negril need's more Police protecting The Locals and Tourist's Alike... If you have a Town or a Country that Tourism is the Main Source of Income ...
Shouldn't you protect it ????
As Outsider's.. It is so Sad to see it going this Way... I do hope that S.O.E. works and it can be Cleaned Up soon .. And bring some Order Back .. Just my Two Cents !!
Marko...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko
I can understand where our Member of Parliament, Dr. Wykeham McNeil, is coming from. He is trying to get the government to pay for more constables for his constituency. Every MP is doing the exact same thing as numbers of police are down from 20 years ago in every precinct.
So in shear numbers of JCF, that sounds about right. But I do know that 20 years ago many officers were part time, having other jobs. I would be curious to see the number of hours worked per shift compared to 20 years ago. Productivity per officer has surely gone up. Twenty years ago there was virtually no transportation for the constables in Negril. Everything was done on foot. That is not true today.
As an expat... I don't agree with your last statement that "things have gotten out of control". In the 90's when the large tourist demand for cocaine came to the island, there were times when you couldn't walk up a lane on the West End without "paying a toll" to the strung out "stockies" at the beginning of each lane. Perhaps the ex-pats you are talking with have no knowledge of those times.
I find it interesting that you are making these claims. In another thread you state that the airport users fees and taxes are too high, and specifically "shouldn't be for Mobay airport". One of those fees is the TEF, the "Tourism Enhancement Fund". The sidewalk on the beach and beach patrol ATVs (to directly address problem higglers on the beach) were paid for by this fund. Future projects to be completed through the fees and taxes are increased lighting, security cameras, more policing, better roads, waste management and increased water supply and drainage.
I have had several friends comment to me about your statement that you "know the runnings better than some Jamaicans". I don't know how you can be so bold saying that as a visitor to Jamaica? I've been living here approaching 30 years now and would never make that claim.
I don't see how complaining that "things have gotten out of control" and yet not wanting to pay for it through fees and taxes such as the TEF is consistent with knowing the "runnings".
Just sharing my nearly 30 years of personal observations being an ex-pat...
i have to agree with rob. i remember the cracked out 90s being much worse for crime and hassles in negril.
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind
ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind
marko be like
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...67d79baf_o.gif
I knew our evening beach walks were over once I was told... "I can smell the suit case on you" by an aggressive higgler. Booked for our 17th year next Feb but starting to look at options.
The people giving trouble and stress to the tourists on the beach are not higglers. Higglers will offer some type of goods or service. (without hassle or intimidation). This does not include the low life types coming to Negril to extract money from tourists through intimidation, hassle or other untoward means. The powers that be, need to wake up to the fact that they are losing tourists and their revenue because they are not doing enough to keep tourists in a comfort zone. How many first time visitors will never return? How many long time visitors will retreat behind the AI walls, or just go to another destination that feels more comfortable to them? I am a long time visitor and over the last decade, when someone asks me if they should go to Jamaica I very much hesitate to say it is a good idea.
Look at how some of the small hotels on the south end of the beach struggle. there was a time these small hotels were thriving. Independent travellers aren’t arriving in the high numbers they once were.
The word is out on Jamaica, and sadly, by and large it is not good. Hurts me to say that!
Where is the 20 year old kid coming to Jamaica for the first time, falling in love with the island and returning 20, 30, 40 times more? Just not happening anymore, (witness the empty hotel rooms of the small hotels). We know why. Jamaica can be a scary place to the newcomer, and old timers adjust and move in smaller, more cautious circles. Many first timers are one and done. It is understandable that the AI hotels caution their guests about leaving the property.
More needs to done now!
Various Boardies challenge Marko because of some of the words he uses, but it doesn’t change the fact that he has captured in a first hand way the way it feels to him on the ground in Negril. He is a long time visitor and his message is things are worse, don’t think we can argue that. (Marko is not the bad guy, right?)
More needs to be done now.
the powers that be need to start taking better care of their people and give them realistic career/livelihood options other than dealing with tourists. i find it sad that you think the government is failing because it's not finding a way to make tourists feel more comfortable. the government needs to make its people feel like they have a viable future in their own country.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunray
that being said, i live in a neighborhood in nyc that's feeling the exact same squeeze of gentrification that negril is undergoing, and alternate between spending time in haiti (family) and jamaica (just like haiti but with a bit more infrastructure), so i may have a really different view of the situation that you do.
mwenvlay, Since this is a board related to Negril tourism, I tend to keep my contributions related to such. For the Jamaican government to provide more opportunity to the people of the nation requires money. A main source of revenue is the tourism industry. If the government wants to ‘big up’ the country, a great way to start is to protect the tourism industry, whether you find that sad or not.
And I find it hilarious that you believe that Negril is being gentrified, (much like your nyc neighbourhood). Negril was a small fishing village that morphed into a major tourism development decades ago. Sure doesn’t fit my understanding of gentrification.
Lose the tourists to government inaction on the problems of the day, then see the means the government would have to provide viable futures to the people. (apparently non tourist related would be your preference).
any place where the locals can't afford to live anymore because the area is catering to a different clientele is an area that's experiencing gentrification. a small fishing village that's now home to a plethora of all inclusives whose workers have to branch out farther afield to find affordable housing is the epitome of gentrification. brooklyn, negril- same same.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunray
and this is a tourism board geared towards folks who tend to spend a lot of time in jamaica, so opinions are going to veer away from the usual "is it safe???" and "which all inclusive would be best for me?" type topics. and i'm the type of tourist who thinks about what's going on locally, more than what's in it for my first world ass. if the government wants to big up the country, it could invest in local manufacturing and small business ownership, develop its healthcare system and bolster its educational system. same as with everywhere else in the world. tourism is great, but you still have to look out for your own.
but again, i started visiting jamaica tagging along with friends who had family there, and then on business (music industry). my perspective might be different than yours.
This topic is one that comes up on occasion, and one that has varying degrees of understanding. We all deal with what we feel comfortable with, and our experiences shape us one way or another. Rob has done a good job of adding some color to an often contentious topic. I for one used to visit the island 3-4 times a year, however my last visit was July last year for Sumfest, and I likely will not be back until the new year. Why? I'm not 100% sure as I miss Jamaica, Negril, and my local friends a lot. Especially with the sargassum issues throughout the Caribbean, Negril has one of the best beaches out there. The bull$hit hassle has a huge impact, even though I have been on island over 20 times. I have not been to a place with more hassle, not remotely close to Negril. The authorities want to increase tourism? This would be a great start.
Thank Irene for adding clarity to the topic. :)
My husband (R.I.P.) and I went to Negril 12 times between 1987 and 2006. In those late 80s - early 90s days, the higgler scene was about guys walking down the beach with you for a while before giving you the pitch. My husband was always about finding good ganja, so we usually had a lot of interaction. It really wasn't until cocaine hit the scene that things got dicey, and I blame people who did coke at home and wanted to do it there. My husband knew his way around mind-altering substances of all kinds, and even he was baffled at why you'd want to do an "edgy" drug instead of a "mellow" one in Jamaica. We were recognized every year because he was six feet tall and I was under five feet tall, and I had a habit of walking down the beach wearing a T-shirt with this on it, which the Jamaicans found endlessly amusing:
Attachment 53114
Those of you who were around the area of the T-Water in those days in, say, July through November, may even have seen us. But once cocaine hit, the beach guys got edgier, grabbing hands and tying "reggae bracelets" on you as a "present", then demanding money and looking for you on the beach till you coughed up the money. Then the prostitutes became aggressive, and "How Stella Got Her Groove Back" came out and the rastitutes became aggressive. We got older, it stopped being "local color" and stopped being fun and started being annoying. So we started going to Bloody Bay (Couples and SATP) and finally to Club Ambiance in Runaway Bay. And when I came back last October to have my husband's ashes buried at sea, my sister, brother-in-law and I stayed at SATP.
I doubt I will ever go back. I am in my 60s now, none of my friends are interested in going, and frankly, I don't want to be hassled. No, I don't want my groove back, I don't take drugs, and I have plenty of souvenirs from 19 trips to Jamaica, 12 of them in Negril. I actually think one is safer in smaller hotels where I think they do better staff screening, but being intimidated, yelled at, and have my beach walk interrupted, is not what I want to spend my fixed income on. This makes me sad. I wish it were different. It would be a way to connect with those good times 20-30 years ago, but unless things change, I don't see myself returning. :-(
All that said, we really loved it in Negril until it got just too funky.
Wow, sorry about your husband. Haven't heard of a destination funeral before but it sounds really nice to have his ashes buried at sea.
I no longer stay in Negril for the same reasons as you, but I still go to Jamaica a lot. Well, with a Jamaican wife and 3 adopted Jamaican kids (now grown) I guess that's to be expected.
When I met my wife (in Kingston) she had never been to Negril. "It's for the tourists" was her attitude. After a lovely first date in Kingston, she agreed to meet me in Negril for a weekend, as our second date. Seeing Negril through the eyes of a sophisticated young Kingston woman (one with a job/apartment/life in Kingston) was eye-opening. "Welcome to Jamaica" said the higglers with a big smile as they approached. "I'm *from* Jamaica" she'd reply. They'd go into their spiel anyway. She'd tell them to get a job and support themselves instead of begging money. "No jobs in Jamaica" they'd say. "Sure there are, I have one" she'd reply. She didn't have any sympathy for an able-bodied able-minded man her age begging money from her. Later she said she found Negril to be ... embarrassing?! "What do you mean?" I asked. She replied she felt like she had to apologize on behalf of her country for the bad behavior of the Jamaican higglers. "Let's get out of here" I said. And we did, going instead to a lovely little B&B in St Mary where she used to vacation with her family (and we were not hassled at all there).
Wow, that was a while ago. As I said, I don't go to Negril that much any more.
Peace and love,
Richard
After 26 trips in 20 years I've experienced the gamut of higgler interactions. After a couple trips I developed a strategy. Every 100 yards or so, stop and befriend a vendor. Buy a little, chat a little, maybe buy them a beer. Eventually you have a network of friends that tend to watch out for you in their territory. I have good friends that I met that way on my first trip that are still friends to this day. I know this approach isn't for everyone, but it works for me. I think a lot of it is attitude. The first thing I tell newbies is be careful what you wish for, Jamaica has a way of answering.