Negril Map link:
http://www.travelsinjamaica.com/p/ne...verything.html
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Negril Map link:
http://www.travelsinjamaica.com/p/ne...verything.html
LOL, at Smith!
LOVE the maps, thanks Mr. Smith!
I am puzzled as to why this is such a hard thing for some to accept. This is a very simple concept folks. Perhaps the reason why some think there is no impact on the transportation needs of the local populace is that those people are here for short periods of time and have no year round experience to draw from. What happens during busy season cannot be applied to slow times, and vice versa. Or maybe they are just not paying close enough attention to the reality to discern the truth.
The current route taxi system in Jamaica was NOT DESIGNED WITH VISITORS TO THE ISLAND IN MIND. While there is no rule, no law that states a tourist cannot use the route taxis (in fact, the drivers are required to pick up everyone who wants a ride - without discrimination), there is a common sense impact that must be present when one thinks about the issue.
There are clues for everyone to see that the route taxi public transportation was NOT designed with visitors in mind. The obvious first clue is visible to every single visitor who comes out of the airport - the public transportation bus stop is OUTSIDE the airport on the main road, not inside the airport where you arrive with your baggage. You would have to haul your bags outside the airport to get the public transportation. The previous government thought about changing this policy and create a bus/taxi stop inside the airport, but decided against it after they did an impact study. It was decided that it would put undue pressure on the current system. Clue number 1.
You will also notice the lack of "take public transportation" advertisements in any of the tourist literature or billboards in the tourist areas. Clue number 2.
A cynic or conspiracy theorist may try to claim this is a ploy created by the government and ex-pats alike to force the visitor into paying for charter taxis - that they are somehow in cahoots with the charter taxis to redirect money from unsuspecting route taxi drivers. Well, I suppose they are entitled to think this, but it is no more true than was all the scare about the Y2K bug that was supposed to cripple the planet at the beginning of this century. Back then, I told everyone who was freaking about the Y2K bug to think for one second. Banks had been offering 20-30 year mortgages, and these were running well into the next century since the 70's. You think they didnt anticipate this problem a long time before 1999? Simple reality check.
As with the above, logic will let you understand the truth here and not to give much weight to some uninformed beliefs from others.
Yesterday I was at the Corner Bar in order to count the number of taxis moving by there on the West End. In less than 8 minutes, I counted 13 route taxis and 5 charter taxis pass by. There is a sharp turn there so the taxis must slow down enough for me to read the wording on the taxi. The interesting factor was that only 5 of the route taxis had West End painted on the side. The other route taxis had designations from other areas. While technically they are driving the route illegally, this does show a very simple supply/demand relationship during busy season. The MAJORITY of the route taxis operating during this very short time period were not even supposed to be on that route.
As I have mentioned previously, there are a limited number of route taxis designated for each route, such as the West End (Smith even mentioned the West End designation on the taxi). The increase in demand during busy season in Negril is now encouraging other route taxis to service the West End. In addition to possibly making some of the West End route taxis not be as full as they might have been, all the other route taxis came from other routes. So now they are not servicing their own routes - which of course would have an impact on their route passengers. The local populace that was served by these route taxis are not being served during busy season. There is an impact for those people. This is simple deductive reasoning, no grand conspiracy required.
And then we have the issue of busy vs slow season. As stated, yesterday route taxis went by at a pace of about 1 every 30 seconds. During slow season, this is not the case. Passengers can wait many minutes in order to get a ride, sometimes 15 minutes or more. So, if that single route taxi that passes by is filled with tourists trying to save pocket change on a ride, then they may have to wait an additional 15 minutes before the next ride comes by. To claim there is no impact only means someone is not paying attention to the truth.
As for questioning the source - well, I live here. I have lived in Jamaica for nearly 20 years full time. I have friends who drive route, charter and tour vehicles, so I really have no personal interest in which one makes what money. Negril.com does have tour operators as clients - but they are not being discussed in this thread. Negril.com makes no income from route or charter drivers.
But lets take a second to check the sources of some of the other information. One of the proponents of the idea that there is no impact on the local populace when tourists take route taxis just last year was stating how fun "bike taxis" are to take and that their landlord happens to drive one. I pointed out that there are no legal bike taxis on the island and no visitor should take one. They said they would check with their landlord about this as they wouldnt do something that would put tourists at risk. It is interesting that there was no further defense of the bike taxis, that indeed there are no legal bike taxis on the island. Point here being just because you believe something does not make it so.
To address CarrieBean's comment, just a few years ago there was very little if any information on the internet about the illegal white plate taxis. Negril.com went on a mission to inform visitors to this reality since it had been too long overlooked. Thanks to the efforts of this website, we have educated thousands of travelers to Jamaica about taking only red plated taxis and that information is being spread on websites all over the net. This has happened in just a few years.
While you can think that "it would never be the case" that every single tourist would take a route taxi, the truth is that there could easily be enough of them doing it to seriously change the usefulness of the route taxis for the local population.
"The situation I am referring to is when a person is on the road, and WANTS a taxi to stop for them. But a white plate pulls up first, and you know you don't want that. Or a red plate pulls up but something doesn't look or feel right about the situation. "
I understand what you are saying - again, its never happened that way for me because I do not flag a taxi down until I see a red plate.
Where I'm flagging cabs though, and this might be the same sitch for you Lola, is NOT in a tourist zone. Its usually in my neighborhood. I'm recognized by many and I recognize many drivers. Even if I'm just standing somewhere waiting on something the drivers I know will always holler out to see if I need a ride.
As far as the debate as to whether or not tourists should use the route taxi system, I'll say it again - with the advent of the internet the cat's out of the bag on this one (I was taking route taxis before anyone even knew what they were. Its only within the past several years that they were talked about here on the 'net). I can only listen to my neighbors and friends here, see their point of view and share it - you all can do what you feel is right for you. Personally, as always happens here in Jamaica, after 30 years visiting after 10 years living here part-time - I'm always learning something new. If you go around without seeing all sides of an issue, staying stubborn in your thought, what is the use of traveling? Like Rob said, its about observing and paying attention - and keeping an open mind.
Since tourism began in the Negril area, Jamaicans from other areas of the island have come to the Negril area to participate in it. Haven't they impacted the public transportation system? Are there more residents in Negril now than there were in the past, also having an impact? Hasn't there been an increase in the number of route drivers over the years to accommodate these changes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob;35510
The current route taxi system in Jamaica was NOT DESIGNED WITH VISITORS TO THE ISLAND IN MIND.
[COLOR="#0000CD"
Interesting discussion.
SMITH ~ my observation is the traffic/people moving picks up around 2 / 2:30 in the afternoon.
Lola,
I am missing the logic in your comments in defense of the idea that visitors to the island have no impact on the route taxi system.
Lets start with the first comment "much of what is or is/was built in Jamaica is not designed with visitors in mind". Say what? The first thing thing a visitor to Jamaica sees is the airport or the cruise docks. BOTH were designed with the visitor in mind. How can you suggest the first thing they see wasnt designed with them in mind. The new highway project, the first roads they travel on, are most certainly designed with tourists in mind. Why else would the first sections to be completed be the road to Negril, and the road to Ocho Rios - both from Montego Bay. All three of these places are major tourist destinations.
Every hotel or resort in Negril was designed with the visitor in mind. Virtually every restaurant in Negril was designed with the tourist in mind. The original charter taxi union, JUTA was designed with the tourist in mind.
The water treatment plant and the sewage system in Negril was designed with the tourists in mind. That is the main reason they were built in the first place. The population of Negril, being around 5000, would have never been enough residents to have the system built to the capacity it was or as early as it was built. And even the sidewalk example you bring up, it was not designed being broken up. When it was designed it was smooth. It only broke up over time. It may be rough to walk on at present, but what makes you think it was designed to be rough to walk on?
The next comments you make are interesting:
1 ) "During that same time period there were probably several West End taxis driving the Beach Road... Its not just tourists that purchase these diversions, locals do it too. Drivers take care of their personal business while they are out driving, as well. And possibly some of these route cars had been chartered for that particular drive."
2) "As you stated, this example is for slow season, so not a constant occurrence. Seeing a route car full of tourists could mean that route driver decided to carry them as a charter and not that they picked them up along the way. (I don't see any discussion here that route drivers shouldn't do this - many have 'chartered' signs they keep in their car)... Folks who visit as part of a group of travelers tend to use charter drivers with larger vehicles."
Both these comments are interesting to me to gain insight into what you are thinking. In the first one you suggest that Jamaicans have an impact on the route taxi system. I have to agree with that - of course Jamaicans have an impact on a system that was designed with them in mind. But if that is true and we both agree that it is, then logic dictates that the impact the tourist has on the system is ABOVE AND BEYOND that of the Jamaicans.
The second comment simply points out that even if the route taxi has decided to carry the tourists as a charter, then there would obviously be one less route taxi on the road at the moment to pick up the local residents. Thus, more impact on the route taxi system by tourists using a route taxi as a charter rather than using a charter taxi in the first place.
This comment "The off-route drivers are going to pick them up if they come through before an on-route car. There is no timed schedule to adhere to." doesnt make much sense to me. What off route taxi are you talking about? And why is it okay for someone who depends on this service daily to have to depend on some off-route taxi that may or may not exist? While there may not be a timed schedule, when you depend daily each year on a service like this to get to work, to pick up your kids, get groceries, etc., then you do become acquainted with the usual time frame to accomplish these trips. If there are less route taxis on your route because they are serving tourists, then your daily routine and schedule will be up set.
And yes, the number of residents in any given area determines the number of route taxis to serve that area. As mentioned, the Negril population is around 5000 residents. When the influx of tourists can increase by 10,000 people in a given week - this DOES have an impact on the system. You can pretend this is not the case, but the facts do not bear this out. The word "truth", as I used it, can be interchangeable with the meaning of the word "fact".
The truth in this situation is that very few, if any, route taxi operators will hesitate to give you a ride and accept your money. But just because they will accept your money does not mean there is no impact on the route taxi system.
As Monk and Big Frank have both pointed out, the charter taxis can be very competitive in price and are always more convenient to use. They take you from point a to point b in a private ride. They stop where you want to stop. They go where you want them to go.
Yes, you can save some pocket change and perhaps buy an extra beer or two with the money you save taking a route taxi and that is your right. There is no law against it. But to think that there is no impact on the system only means you are ignoring the obvious reality. You are not a Jamaican who relies on this system, you are on vacation.
After talking to a few Jamaican friends about this, now I can certainly testify to the fact that getting a ride to work is difficult for some Jamaicans. Many of them rely heavily on taking taxis (two or three legs) from as far as Sav to Negril, or MoBay to Lucea.
In some cases, late at night, or early in the morning. Being late definitely impacts their job security.
I know some of the airport shuttle services have agreements (I am not sure of the exact nature of these agreements) to pick up workers from the big resorts on their normal runs. This helps to cut down on the demand for inexpensive rides to and from work along the major artery between Mobay and Negril. This is a great idea in my opinion and fills empty seats...
(I ask a lot of questions...and on one of my recent reaches I shared a ride with two young uniformed workers at a large hotel...two stops before Lucea, let them both out at same super AI in Lucea. This struck me funny as I was in a PRIVATE charter...so I asked the driver...he told me...said he hopes it is ok...I said no problem mon).
What we tourists tend to forget is that for us, $300J savings for a ride to the beach is nice. For some Jamaicans, especially someone just starting in the workforce...these rides are critical to being employed.
I'm not saying I won;t ever take a route taxi. If they pull up and are empty maybe I am helping them make a living. But I am definitely more aware of this issue now. And I still think they should standardize fares.
The only reason not to standardize fares is because some/many people overpay...that's using the same deductive reasoning as Rob used above. It's the only logical conclusion why there are not meters in Jamaican cabs.
Getting Around Negril 101 [[ continued ]]
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Route Taxi at Night (after sundown)
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I'm very familiar with
travel-ing via route-taxis at dusk/sundown, because I sleep in Lucea,
and commute regularly ---almost daily--- back & forth to Negril,
The approaching route-taxis will flash their headlights,
as a signal to potential passengers (standing roadside)
that they are available --with empty seat(s).
i like catching route-taxis at night/dusk,
because i don't need to raise my hand until i see the flicker-ing headlights
not a problem
if/when the route-taxi stops,
it's not unusual for the potential new-passenger
to peep inside the taxi,
and look-inside & eyeball the driver (and other passengers)
and decide to ride or not-ride
lol
lol
lol
lol
i so-love-love-LOVE your choice of words
lol
lol
lol
pocket-change for one person
might be real-money for another
for mi-personally,
like to apply that Jamaican-proverb/saying:::>>> "..every mickle, makes a muckle.."
i look-for and have NO problem picking-up a Jamaican $1.00 coin, or a USofA 1-cent piece
in fact, i'm a VERY-happy vacation-er whenever i find a Ja $1 coin
i'm not a '.big-man.' with long-pockets
so,
it's route-taxis all the time
everytime
that's GREAT..!!...
*sounds*-like you-all doing REALLY good down-there, right-now
'cause yesterday was a Sunday,
and usually Sunday's are dead dead dead in Negril,
..with businesses closed, and less-workers in-town,
....and less route-taxis operating on Sunday's
i'm glad you-all are making a lot of money this high-season
There are no public transportation pick up locations near the arrival area for visitors coming to the island. There are some in the worker drop off areas as well as the shipping areas - but none where the arriving passengers exit the terminal. The previous government's plan was announced in October of 2011, but nothing came of this plan:
http://go-jamaica.com/news/read_article.php?id=32625
not to split hairs,
but it depends on how you define *near*
for me,
it ain't *far*
'bout 1/2-block from the arrival-door
sometimes,
the route-taxi man will drive-pass the arrival-door
and will gladly stop
so passenger can hop in
ummmmmmmmmmmmmm
but that *drive-by* is *probably* "..not designed for the tourist/visitor/foreigner..."
he's probably driving-by,
to pick-up returning residents eh
I'm trying to remember the last time I got into a full taxi. If it is close to full, I will wave them on so as to not take a space away from a local. Most times, I'm the first or second in. And I can't remember the last time one was full before I got to my stop either. Never thought twice about being the first one in before. If I'm the first in, they almost always end up pitching me additional services - either taxi, tour or "personal". But once they know it's not my first time at the rodeo we usually just end up having fun conversation.
When I mentioned before about the angry reactions from the white plates, it was when I was on the road clearly flagging down a taxi but if it's after sunset, it's hard to tell if the plate is white or red until they are right there stopping. Then when I said no, a few have gotten a little hostile. This isn't late night, usually just after dinner going back to my hotel (maybe 7 p.m. or so).
You can laugh and feign all you want regarding not being a "big man", but remember, in the eyes of the vast majority of Jamaicans - you are a big man. Many have seen you have multiple opportunities to fly to Jamaica. Those that havent know you have been able to fly there at least once. In comparison, the majority of Jamaicans will never be able to afford to fly anywhere in their life. Personally, I dont find this anything to laugh about...
Smith - we are talking about the same stop - that is on road as you leave the airport. It is not in the arrival area for the visitors. Of course, if a route taxi driver happens to be driving by the arrival door and you hail them, they will stop for you. They are not supposed to discriminate as I mentioned previously.
Wow - I've never seen the US Constitution to be trivialized to that extent, being compared to transportation system. But even so, you are comparing apples and oranges. A civil war in the mid 1800's helped to change the US Constitution and it wasnt for another 100 years or so until the civil rights movement that the words finally started to mean something in the US.
The route taxi system was implemented about 50 years ago in order to provide an affordable way for the Jamaican populace to get around. That is all it was designed to do - nothing more, nothing less. It was not designed as a basis for government....
Grabbing for straws are ya?
Getting Around Negril 101 [[ continued ]]
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Benefit of Using Route-Taxis
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Remember Negril is a VERY-VERY-VERY small place
route-taxi drivers recognize & remember faces
after you use the route-taxi system a few times,
the taxi-men know that you know they system,
and will stop for you more often,
and will watch your back,
and will do little things to make your use of the system even better
Nothing like an esoteric discussion about taxis........
Makes an old Freemason get excited.....
Smith, I love you! You always bring such great comments to a thread! And you're right, the difference between route and charter isn't just chump change to a lot of us. I'm usually there for 2 weeks and take taxis almost daily for something. The difference between route and charter for a single person is going to be around $300J ($600J round trip). Say I take a taxi on only 10 days of my trip (very conservative estimate), that's a difference of $6,000J or about $70. That's $70 that I can spend on dinners and spread the wealth around to more than just taxi drivers. And I'm still giving about $4,000J+ to route taxi drivers.
Rob, thanks for finally clarifying that your statements are different based on high season vs. low season. Since I've mostly been there during low season, perhaps that is why I rarely see full taxis. I have a specific daily budget when I'm there which includes taxi, food, excursions, and souveniers. I feel better about sharing the wealth, some money to the route taxi drivers, some to the restauranteurs who are trying to keep open during slow times too, some to the vendors trying to sell trinkets to pay for their own food for their families, and some money to charter taxi drivers for excursions. Share the wealth I say... share the wealth!
I took one ride in a route taxi last week and the Jamaican in the front seat spent the entire ride from Home Sweet Home to Catcha riffing hard in Patois about tourists spending only 200j to go all that way. He was seriously shiddy. Pretty sure he didn't realize I understood him. Gave the driver 500j and told him to keep the change and smiled thinking about the conversation they had when we got out...
Getting Around Negril, Jamaica AND the Airport 101 [[ continued ]]
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Brief Info on Airport Route-Taxi system
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Attachment 9709
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Route-taxis service the airport
INSIDE the airport grounds/area
1....you can sit on the benches and wait
2....it's NOT far from the Arrival door
3.... or you can hop a taxi at one of the reddish '.X.' 's on the map above
4.... or you can stroll out to the main-road (outside the airport grounds) and catch one at the greenish '.X.' on map above
fare..??.. ---- can't remember, but probably not-more than Ja$100 to the MoBay bus/car-park.
..then Ja$200 (approx) to Lucea
..then Ja$200 to Negril
Suggestion:::>> Remember, because the Jamaican people are sooooooooooooo-nice & helpful, getting a route-taxi is too-too easy-easy::::>>> Just ask somebody,,, ANY-body where to catch a route-taxi
note::>> on the map above the airport Police station:::>>> you could ask them where to catch a route-taxi.... i'm SURE they'll help you.
Yes, but my "guess" is the tourist industry in Jamaica wasn't quite as thriving then as it is now that needed to be taken into consideration. My "guess" is there were not as many tourists trying to get around to visit numerous locations in a town then as there are now. Lots of things are used differently from how they were originally intended (especially after 50 years) because times change.
Consider this scenario:::::::::
I'm traveling solo
staying at one of those Rui resorts
i've got two taxi options:::: route-taxi or charter-taxi
I want to explore downtown and roam around Negril on a regular basis
on a 5-day vacation
i can make that 5-minute drive to downtown for Ja $200 round-trip route-taxi
or
i can charter-taxi for Ja$800 round-trip (if i can find a driver to do it)
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
do that Ja$800 enough-times, and we're talking about a whole-lot of money (for me)
Nope..!!..
I can't dew-wheat
can't manage
Two things:
Interesting that folks are being guided to use Charter vehicles instead of route taxis, yet route taxis can also be chartered... what, exactly is the recommendation for tourists to follow???
Rob, you stated earlier that there were more charter vehicles than route taxis in Negril, yet that was not the case in your count at the Corner Bar...
One more - addendum to Smith's map of the roundabout/plazas in Negril - while the area in front of Coral Seas Plaza is often used by taxis and their customers, I don't think it is an 'official' pickup area, because when there is police presence, the cars are not there. That's why I stated in an earlier post that there are 'known' areas where one can catch a ride...
I am, and have always been in full agreement that Jamaicans should have priority in using the system.
** Smith - thanks for the 'blinking lights' mention - I think I have seen that, I will watch for it. Sometimes they beep too.
Geez Rob, a simple explanation or a link to the other thread or impact study would have done just fine. Not sure why you feel the need to be condescending.
The tourism industry has been growing since it started in the 1890's. The first tourist association was formed in 1910 (Jamaica Tourist Association). The first government agency was founded in 1922 (Jamaica Tourist Trade Development Board). In 1954, the government reorganized the Development Board and called it the JTB (Jamaica Tourist Board) that we know today. JUTA (Jamaica Union of Travelers Association) was formed shortly thereafter to serve the increasing transportation needs of the ever growing tourist industry.
The government has known since the 50's that the Jamaica Public Transportation would not be able to handle the various and growing needs of the tourists, thus the need for JUTA to exist. There are now other unions serving tourism needs in addition to JUTA (JCal and Maxi to name two) as the needs of the tourism industry grow. As a sidenote, the government defines a tourist as anyone staying at least 24 hours (overnight), but not more than a year.
----------------------------------------------------
The Jamaica Tourist Board has given us this regarding Jamaica Public Transportation and advice for visitors to the island:
Public transportation in Jamaica is nothing short of an exciting adventure. In Kingston, the capital city, large air-conditioned luxury coaches ply popular routes, but outside those areas, vehicles are less comfortable and arrive with less regularity. Buses, minibuses and route taxis are the primary means of transportation for the majority of people on the island, but are recommended only for the more intrepid tourist.
For travel between towns, minibuses are the way to go, and travel on a Jamaican minibus certainly makes for an interesting experience. Along the way, you will see – and hear – the real Jamaica. But prepare to compete with luggage of varying sizes and contents. On longer trips, passengers almost become a community; somehow the shared experience of being so close to a complete stranger may create an unspoken bond.
Each town in Jamaica has a designated bus park, and although the destination stands are rarely marked, fret not, conductors eager to begin their trip will find you. Keep your luggage close to you – as you would anywhere else in the world – and be sure to double-check with the driver on fares and destinations BEFORE you board.
Quite often "route taxis" – cars that drive a designated course and pick up and drop off passengers at will – are the cheapest and fastest way to get from place to place. All registered taxis in Jamaica are required by law to have red "PP" licence plates. You are advised not to board any taxi operating illegally. You needn’t worry about missing a taxi; there is usually no need to look hard for another. Just stick your hand out and wave – one will come to a screeching halt before you.
-------------------------------------------------------
The key points to take away from this are:
All registered taxis in Jamaica are required by law to have red "PP" licence plates. You are advised not to board any taxi operating illegally.
Be sure to double-check with the driver on fares and destinations BEFORE you board.
Buses, minibuses and route taxis are the primary means of transportation for the majority of people on the island, but are recommended only for the more intrepid tourist.
--------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that the route taxi was designed with the Jamaican populace in mind and is the primary means of transportation for the majority of the people on the island.
lol
lol
that was a hypothetical
...'cause me-personally can't afford US $300-400 per day
but if i was staying at a Negril Rui, i would NOT use a charter-taxi
and i would definitely NOT use one of those charter-taxi that sit outside the resort
and i would NOT have the front-desk call a taxi for me
i would walk to the main road and hail a route-taxi
Lola,
I have mentioned that route taxis can be chartered, but lets face it, if you charter a route taxi, that is one less route taxi to server the Jamaican people. My recommondation would to use one of the charter taxis available all over Negril.
As for the vehicle count, if you count the only West End route taxis and the charter taxis, they both equaled 5. So the count is the same. The problem comes in with the number of non-West End route taxis driving off their route. Had they not been driving, the number of charter taxis may have been higher. We will never know the actual numbers because of the supply/demand issues that happen during busy season. When route taxis drive routes other than their own - it must skew the results.
lol
lol
lol
lol
lol
here again:::::>>>> I love love love LOVE the choice-of-words
lol
lol
lol
intrepid ~~~ Adjective:
Fearless; adventurous (often used for rhetorical or humorous effect).
Synonyms: fearless - dauntless - undaunted - brave - bold - daring
* sigh *
folks need to STOP those word-games, where they attempt to give newcomers a feeling of dread.
oh well
so it goes