Right Flip!!!
I took a steam train to Ocean City once.
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Right Flip!!!
I took a steam train to Ocean City once.
Definitely have never done that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Georgie
I have been on a steam train before.
Westender,Quote:
Originally Posted by Westenders
I have re-read your post, and you did in fact state that MOST of Red Ground people are not paying their way today - this IS what you wrote:
"Let's face it most of red ground is capture land, why didn't they go in there."
MOST OF RED GROUND means more than half - the majority. So you are saying the majority of the people currently living in Red Ground are squatters and do not pay their way. You did not qualify it by saying "back in the day" or any other such statement - just a simple "let's face it" as a fact.
When posters misinform others on this board, presenting their opinion as fact which has no basis in reality, it is wise for others to correct this misinformation so people know the truth.
The vast majority of people in Red Ground are not squatters and own their land. I stopped by Red Dragon last night for few minutes after the webcast at 3 Dives and showed your comment to one of the owner's son (I didnt see Ragabones, the owner) and their night customers who have been born and raised in Negril and are Jamaican friends of mine. Most of these folks live in Red Ground and just happened to be gathered at Red Dragon on a Tuesday night.
After the laughter died down, some of the curious asked, who would say such an bumba#$#% thing? One did state that well, it may have been true before Norman Manley Blvd was built a half century ago, but not now. Overall, the folks gathered were shaking their heads sadly that misinformation about them were being posted on the internet. I told them I would let the poster know their feelings and correct this misinformation being spread about them.
And now I see you had to backtrack to Brihinds and state "You are right many people there are land owners, but plenty captured the land back in the day. FACT. It's so established that many don't realise that this was the history. Ask the owner of Red Dragon about that.."
Why didnt you state that you were talking ancient history in the first place on this tourism based forum instead of misleading tourists into believing that Red Ground currently has mostly squatters living there?
In your "Let's face it" post, were you actively trying to hurt the businesses in Red Ground, wanting tourists to be afraid of going to great places like Red Dragon by claiming mostly squatters live in Red Ground when that is simply not true? Or did you have some other agenda as Flip has pointed out that you think this is some kind of knowledge contest?
Yes, we do have differing opinions on squatting. I do not see it as a good solution to anything and something that creates a whole new set of problems that will have to be dealt with in the future. You see it as a good solution. Would you mind answering a good solution to what problem? If it is housing, maybe you should remember what else you wrote about the government sponsored affordable housing that I mentioned:
"I know of Jamaicans living in the uk, who have bought into those housing programmes, and rent them out from here."
Rather than encouraging squatting, maybe your time could be better spent getting those Jamaicans you know living in the UK to stop exploiting the Jamaican government affordable housing programs and encourage them to sell these "rental" properties to those underprivileged Jamaicans who want to get ahead in this developing country.
But you can rest assured, when any poster tries to use Negril.com to present their misguided opinion as fact, the poster will be challenged on their misleading comments by myself and those who actually do know. We have quite a cross section of posters here on Negril.com, from the first time visitors to posters born, raised and still living in Negril. The truth is what matters, not rumor and/or speculation being presented as fact.
My friend has property in Red Ground with a basic concert structure already built. He has the title to the land and pays taxes. He's found squatters living in the structure he had built. I'm not saying this proves anyone right or wrong. It's just an experience on this topic I thought I'd share. Not solely because of the squatting situation, but my friend is now looking to sell this land for something more secure (and closer to the beach). He wants to sell to us but we aren't willing to take on the issues he's had or try in anyway to maintain\build on a property with the limited time we have to actually be there at this point in our lives. The more we learn the more we think it's best to look into long term rentals when that time comes rather then risk investing in a property of our own.
Something that adds to the confusion of 'squatters' is that there are all different types...
Some squatters creep into other peoples dwellings- like Kevin mentioned. This is just sickening to think of. What kind of person would feel so entitled?
Some build on land that is clearly someone else's. Not as sickening- but still completely intolerable.
Some find land that is not used, they're not in anyone's way and far from it, and they claim it. A little disturbing, but I can accept this.
and then there's the old school squatters... who that's just what they did- Find unused land and claim it. My grandfather obtained several hundreds of acres in rural Maine. He knew what land he could keep farming when no one else cared or bothered and kept farming the land. Eventually he paid taxes on the land and now its his. Of course- now a days its much harder to do as everything is more documented and previously claimed. But I can completely understand this happening back in the day and completely accept this.
The term RESPECT comes to mind. If one has respect for themselves, the land and everyone around them... I see no harm
[QUOTE=Westenders;139207]Booger I do have a strong opinion, my own though based on years of travel there and my own conversations with many people in addition to my husband, isn't that how we all learn about others experience of life?? I also work in the field of child poverty and child protection, so have my own professional opinion about why things there are like they are.
Of course my husband has an opinion, he is and will always be Jamaican and grew up in negril. So he kind of does have it figured out. What an inane point lol.
Not surprised at the personal jab, seems to be the culture of this board. So sorry I'm not a boardie clone, with different opinions. That being said I am not referring to all boardies, but it's laughable at the same few on here that will jump on the same train no matter what.
You have your own opinions, based on what? many holidays there, mixing with a small amount of Jamaicans , who will always see you as a foreigner., oh and the experiences of hanging out with boardies there!! Please don't belittle my opinions without some self reflection. Your post was pointless in the discussion of this issue. Sorry that my guru is my husband and not Rob (sarcasm intended)
Also probably unlike most of you, I don't return to a non Jamaican / possibly white world in the uk...."
More ignorance and assumptions. It's pointless to add anymore......
I do have a question though. What is white world? Please educate me.
Booger - your personal attack was irrelevant to this post. You detracted from the issue being discussed without commenting on the issue, so your contribution wasn't relevant either.
In fact the only relevance I can find for you is the association between your name and something green and crusty dragged from a facial orifice.
The fact that you post on another website about boardies on here being caught up in negativity and causing problems in negril, is intriguing to me. A man with two faces has no integrity to me, so your personal attack would only mean something to me if it was from someone with character.
Flip- I have never registered on this site before. I stand by my own comments and don't need to rebrand and post under another name. I haven't come on here and puffed up my chest. I have expressed an opinion that is what this site is for. Nowhere does it says it's a tourist site. In fact the only person puffing up his chest is you and your posy exposing you chest guts and everything to the world.!
I don't refer to myself as a local, to the contrary I think that's what you do...
This is a board that should welcome open discussion and debate on issues we want to comment about. If you attacked people in the workplace or a Uni for expressing opinions you don't agree with you would be kicked out.
Google etiquette on debate.
Assumptions about how often I'm there are way off, but go ahead and have fun being wrong..
Lola thank you for you reasonable post. I'm not sure where all this idea that I am a past member came from.
I think the term of squatters is generally different in Jamaica to our countries, my original points come from a place of having empathy for people faced with living in challenging circumstances. I don't make a judgement, just felt really bad for their situation. If you want to spend time chugging away at criticisms go ahead. I don't agree, but I'm not the bullys that some of you are.
Rob I find your post unethical and disgusting. Just to clarify the point I made about red ground is that the government wouldn't dare go in there with a bulldozer, and my thoughts although not made clear I meant that they were cowards for choosing a small scale settlement as a quick win.
To be honest for you to just show my comments to people, without the chance for me to redress shows you to be unprofessional.
I hope others 'boardies' will now think twice about registering or making comments, as for you to parade them around in Jamaica and give an impression of people is disgusting.
I would do the same but don't want to be a stirrer of the ****. The next time I come there I may come and have a face to face discussion though, but I don't mean that in any sense of a threat. It is easy for you to be the big I am on here.
I certainly did not set out to drag anyone down in red ground, I have good friends and links there. You have twisted my comments to interpret what you want so you can be right.
Rob there are people on other boards who say they have left this board because of clashes with you. I can now see why.
Good job you've got the groupies to keep posting and keep your business alive. Maybe a lot of the lurkers on your site stay lurkers for fear of bullying from the clones.
Anyways, stand by my points, I feel sad for these people, and even sadder for people with no compassion.
Wow, this has gotten rowdy. I believe we all know and care about people in Negril &/or in Jamaica somewhere and regardless of ones financial situation, squatting is a very harmful and unethical way of conducting ones personal business. The only way to resolve any squatting situation is to handle it immediately, the longer the it festers, like an infection, the worse it gets and that is where the entitlement comes in, individuals or groups feel they have earned the right to be there based on time and theoretical improvements they have made. The safety factor alone should be enough to enforce the law, but the almighty dollar gets in the way. The JPSC (Jamaican Public Service Co) is lobbying the Govt as we speak to allow squatters to obtain electrical service. Current Ja regulations forbids JPSC from supplying power to a potential customer without them having documentation showing rightful occupancy. Since so many people are squatting in Ja, the theft of electricity is astronomical and the power company is missing out on that revenue and wants their piece and the Govt wants the taxes collected on the supplied power. It's a lose-lose all the way around.
Whether it be an individual setting up camp or a complete Shanty Town, squatting diminishes the integrity of any community. I have a heavy heart for the disadvantaged, whether it be their fault or not and I understand many do not have the resources to buy land and build homes, but there has to be a better way. Squatter lands are not a physically or emotionally safe to be, for adults or children nor do they benefit anyone in the community.
http://replygif.net/i/930Quote:
Originally Posted by Westenders;139245
Flip- I have never registered on this site before. I stand by my own comments and don't need to rebrand and post under another name. I haven't come on here and puffed up my chest. I have expressed an opinion that is what this site is for. Nowhere does it says it's a tourist site. In fact the only person puffing up his chest is you and your posy exposing you chest guts and everything to the world.!
I don't refer to myself as a local, to the contrary I think that's what you do...
This is a board that should welcome open discussion and debate on issues we want to comment about. If you attacked people in the workplace or a Uni for expressing opinions you don't agree with you would be kicked out.
[B
http://replygif.net/i/891.gif