A cautionary tale, especially for returners

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Originally Posted by negril#1fan

I say hire an armed off duty police officer to protect guests/property at night. I say like mentioned before, u could catch these guys in a sting so easy, do it..... Let the public know when it works...

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Exactly my point. You can hire more and more security - many of them fall asleep in the middle of the night anyway - you can install door alarms, you can barricade yourself in your room, you can do all that you listed, but the tiefs will still be out and about and scoring.

So, to keep doing what you are doing and to expect different results is simply idiotic.

Nail the SOBs! Catch them in stings and display them in public. Kick their arses around Redground. Post their pictures on line and on Telephone poles and humiliate them. Put them in a cage in the back of a pick up and drive them around town with speakers blaring. Throw them in jail. A Jamaican jail is a very effective deterrent.

Other thieves and would-be thieves would see this. If they know about stings and think they may sneak into a room that has a cop with a gun waiting inside they will be deterred. (In fact, they would probably be shot.) Remember, they are cowards.

I understand why someone might not want to be specific about what hotel it happened in. It IS however, in this case, relevant information. Perhaps in your mind it could have 'happened' anywhere, but that's not actually the case. It didn't happen 'anywhere' or 'everywhere'. It happened where it happened. That it may have ALSO happened somewhere else is not relevant or your responsibility. The truth is that information about where it happened can very much help someone deduce from that how to adjust their security strategy. Especially the more one knows the landscape, the town, the geography of the beach, even the vibes of the individual places. I think it actually is very relevant which property it happened on, and while it's not their 'fault' per se- it is very much their responsibility, which is an important matter. You are not maligning or betraying or otherwise trashing the property or the proprieters by telling the truth about what happened. It's a security issue, first and foremost, so the secrecy about it only helps the people on the other side of this one. The more out in the open it is- the more incentive there is to not let it happen again, and the better chance there is of people as a whole sharing information to make it that much harder to do it again. I understand people have interests in not harming people's business or otherwise penalizing a business for something you are seeing as not their 'fault'. In this case, however there is larger issue at stake- which is people's safety and people having information to make an informed decision. I think you are perhaps being too lenient on the hotel. It is very much their responsibility to ensure safety. What if by mentioning the name of the hotel someone decides to stay somewhere else- presumably that is the situation you are trying to avoid which is understandable but what if by NOT mentioning the name- someone chooses that very spot where this did occur and then DOES get injured. What is the decision to withold the information going to seem like then? Isn't THAT the much bigger risk to take then that a place may lose business? It's natural to not want to throw an establishment under the bus, but in this case I think its interfering really with just giving people the information they need to make an informed decision, and this is not about who has nice lounge chairs or the best pina colada. This is people's safety at stake

I"m with ya..... Have a female undercover officer walk down the beach at night alone..... Have a undercover officer walk down the street with some bling during the day.... Have an undercover officer ride a scooter along the west end road, late at night.... Have an undercover officer stay in a room with a lot of stuff displayed..... Have an undercover officer flag down an unregistered taxi....

These crimes aren't being committed against newbies looking for drugs, prostitution, whatever, these aren't people lurking around where they shouldn't be.... Normal folks tying to enjoy vacation.... On the beach, in their villa, on their scooter, walking along the road....

Lionheart, the hotel has been mentioned at least a dozen times already, what do u want?

Although it is obvious by now which hotel this happened at, I think Lionheart is stateing a good argument about
why it would be important to name names for possible future incidents. Lionheart, I couldn't of said it better.

BNewb I wanted to address your comments, the last three towns/cities I have lived in publish a police blotter once a week with all the crimes committed along with the names of the accused. This is a routine in many parts of the US that I have seen over the last 25 years. High profile cases do make the front page but it's my experience if you look you will see all the crimes someplace in the newspaper.

As far as the fact that by law they are required to hired a licensed and bonded security company shouldn't matter, we have heard of a number of instances of guards sleeping or "lost" during these crimes. I'm not a routine visitor to Jamaica like many but the times I have been there the guards at the places I have stayed are armed with nothing but a 2-way radio and tend to be quite old. Not much help if the criminal has a weapon. To get licensed and bonded means nothing more than having a clean record and paying a fee.

Obviously these crimes are newsworthy, we have had almost 100 posts to this thread in a little over 24 hours, some heated and others providing empathy. You and Rob being on the island with the power of this forum can make a difference. Maybe it's time to get the hotel sponsors from the Forum together to discuss a solution to this rising crime problem. There are many smart people in this world, in my experience many want to hide, many want to offer an idea while others "know all the answers" and shut down those that want to get involved. It's my opinion that if we want to keep Negril as a favorite vacation spot we better figure this out quick otherwise we will spend our hard earned $ elsewhere.

Sadiekat, in your original post you stated that the security co bears the most blame; don't you think the Hotel is responsible to verify and test the security services they have contracted? You seem pretty comfortable taking on that role for them.

North Americans generally get results when complaining about services in their own country. It can be hard to believe it doesn't work that way everywhere.

for me , nowadays security is my biggest issue as to where we stay esp. since I cant run anymore with 2 fushions in my back. I wonder what the hell l would do. Most likely the theif is going to take off but if he did not than i would have to stand my ground and I garantee you it would get real ugly being I would have no choice in the matter at that point. I agree that if you don't need to take alot expensive stuff with ya than dont, All we take is a small ipod and an ipod dock , no computers , expensive phones or expensive jewery. I feel as bad for the staff at Rondel as the ppl who got robbed.They are all good ppl passionate about their jobs. Most locks will not keep a prefessional out , That said I also agree that the locks need to be updated there . The last thing i want is to be is face to face with an armed burguler because any burgerler that will enter an occupied room will be armed and probably puts a low value on life. I'm sure all the resorts have had trouble from time to time with thieft but when you have several instances that close together then you better get the problem resolved because it will come back and bite you in the ass. It does not surprise me that Rondel is looking for a new security firm. I dont know what it takes to get licenced to do that kind of work but its seems like their own staff could go thru what it takes . They are the ones we have trusted all these years. srry for my ramblings on this issue but im very upset with whats happening there being we have been repeats there for years and we had just got back from there c weeks ago.. So just hoping things get better before our next reach and that jamaicas economy improves alot .

my 2 cents......security is a hotels responsibilty....there are many things that could be done to increase security that are not very expensive....clocks around the property that have to be keyed on the patrol of the grounds....this makes sure the gaurd doesnt sleep......motion detector lights......so a gaurd knows where to check......spot checks on security to make sure they are doing their jobs......whats the point of cameras if nobody is watching......but most important of all is whats happening on this forum....open and honest constructive critism.....

OK - so Rondell doubles or triples their security. Good for them, bad for all the other hotels that can't really afford it because the thieves will avoid Rondell and move down the beach a little. Not every hotel can afford to install state of the art security and employ Homeland Security.

Yes, security is really important, but the real problem here is the thieves. Right?

What about robberies on the street, on the beach?

So how about focusing on going after the thieves? Am I missing something here?

Maybe we should build a Green Zone around the beach area of Negril and have everybody enter and leave thru two armed security portals. That would probably be secure enough to keep the thieves out. That seems to be the ultimate result of the 'improve security' mindset.

Or, alternatively, maybe the focus should be on the thieves? There are a LOT of thieves in Negril during the high season.

Catch them and punish them. I know, easier said than done. But worth a concerted effort. Otherwise, we lose the place.

I have been coming to Negril since 82. In 89 a newbie friend was out alone at night on his scooter on the west end road looking for a hotel some girls were staying at. He ended up going down one of the lane roads and turned around to come back. A guy was standing on the road with a stick and said 20J to go on your way. It wasn't much money so he took out his wallet to give it to the guy and he grabbed his wallet and ran. He had around $1000 and credit cards. He reported this to the police and an officer drove him up to the area to find out where it happened and told him to come down to the station the next morning. I said good luck on seeing your wallet again. The officer returned to the station and went plain clothed into the area. He found the thief at a small bar with the wallet tucked into the waste of his jeans in full view. He arrested him. My friend went to the station the next day and all that was missing was less then $50. This went to court in a few days in Sav and the thief got around 3 years. I was impressed on how this officer dealt with the situation.

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Originally Posted by negril#1fan

Personally, I want to vacation where I can leave my balcony door open while I'm in the room and feel the evening breeze....

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If you mean while sleeping at night, then you wish to do something that not even Jamaicans do. Might be okay at a high-end all inclusive but its not fair or realistic to expect that in other locations.

there is alot that can be done in order to improve security that costs little or no money.....as a matter of fact i would be willing to pay a little extra for a resort that showed due dilligence in security matters.... might even become a selling point in choosing one resort over another

Lola I've done it in my 30 odd visits to Negril.... Never at an all-inclusive... Obviously I can't do it anymore... I've even done it at the property in question... Although I take nothing of value and keep my cash in the safe, always only carry enough for the day...

O/K I will volunteer to be disguised as a Beach..street walker and like Lure them suckers in who want a taste of Frederica Stripe? Then Bang/arrest. No crime! I volunteer my body.

Nice story get...... had a friend robbed of money and his scooter..... two against one and the two had a weapon...

This is why I sleep in the holes with the little sand crabs on the beach. Never heard of them getting robbed ?

I noticed you will see a group of police walking along the beach during the day, ONCE. I can't say I recall seeing them walking a beat anywhere else or even in the evenings. It would be a good idea for them to be more visual and walk in the evening and in other areas as well as having more undercover police at night.

Now, this may open up a can of worms for those who like to indulge in subs, but the thought of waking up to an armed intruder in my room.....yiikes!!

The real problem here is not the thieves

You can't pick and choose what parts of a country/culture you don't want to experience

Knives are a common tool in daily life; if you need to use one ask a Jamaican and in a moment one will be found and you will think, "great service!"

Most accidents happen after the same action was performed previously without negative consequence

There will always be people wanting to pay more and people wanting to pay less for the same level

Amping up the tension with 'imagined possible worse events' distracts the conversation

A guarantee of security at all times is an illusion that we want to believe in

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Originally Posted by Lola

The real problem here is not the thieves

You can't pick and choose what parts of a country/culture you don't want to experience

Knives are a common tool in daily life; if you need to use one ask a Jamaican and in a moment one will be found and you will think, "great service!"

Most accidents happen after the same action was performed previously without negative consequence

There will always be people wanting to pay more and people wanting to pay less for the same level

Amping up the tension with 'imagined possible worse events' distracts the conversation

A guarantee of security at all times is an illusion that we want to believe in

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Well said

If you are going to dress up in drag Fred..better shave those legs..

Personally, I would stay at 'said' hotel now...With all of the publicity..they will be the one with the best security! They have something to prove now..That's why I say it would be beneficial for them to say..Look, we screwed up, and it won't be happening again..This will be the safest place in Negril!

Always think.
http://zortzort.com/viewcaption.php?...3127&type=full

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Originally Posted by jimbo

Always think.
http://zortzort.com/viewcaption.php?...3127&type=full

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Brilliant!!!

"Anything worth doing is worth doing with fresh breath" -Mom

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Originally Posted by Tanfastic

BNewb I wanted to address your comments, the last three towns/cities I have lived in publish a police blotter once a week with all the crimes committed along with the names of the accused. This is a routine in many parts of the US that I have seen over the last 25 years. High profile cases do make the front page but it's my experience if you look you will see all the crimes someplace in the newspaper.

As far as the fact that by law they are required to hired a licensed and bonded security company shouldn't matter, we have heard of a number of instances of guards sleeping or "lost" during these crimes. I'm not a routine visitor to Jamaica like many but the times I have been there the guards at the places I have stayed are armed with nothing but a 2-way radio and tend to be quite old. Not much help if the criminal has a weapon. To get licensed and bonded means nothing more than having a clean record and paying a fee.

Obviously these crimes are newsworthy, we have had almost 100 posts to this thread in a little over 24 hours, some heated and others providing empathy. You and Rob being on the island with the power of this forum can make a difference. Maybe it's time to get the hotel sponsors from the Forum together to discuss a solution to this rising crime problem. There are many smart people in this world, in my experience many want to hide, many want to offer an idea while others "know all the answers" and shut down those that want to get involved. It's my opinion that if we want to keep Negril as a favorite vacation spot we better figure this out quick otherwise we will spend our hard earned $ elsewhere.

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Well said! And here is an interesting read about the Jamaican economy and how corruption and crime are hindering it's ability to grow.

http://www.indexmundi.com/jamaica/economy_profile.html

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Originally Posted by Kahuna3

OK - so Rondell doubles or triples their security. Good for them, bad for all the other hotels that can't really afford it because the thieves will avoid Rondell and move down the beach a little. Not every hotel can afford to install state of the art security and employ Homeland Security.

Yes, security is really important, but the real problem here is the thieves. Right?

What about robberies on the street, on the beach?

So how about focusing on going after the thieves? Am I missing something here?

Maybe we should build a Green Zone around the beach area of Negril and have everybody enter and leave thru two armed security portals. That would probably be secure enough to keep the thieves out. That seems to be the ultimate result of the 'improve security' mindset.

Or, alternatively, maybe the focus should be on the thieves? There are a LOT of thieves in Negril during the high season.

Catch them and punish them. I know, easier said than done. But worth a concerted effort. Otherwise, we lose the place.

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Yes sir, beyond my next trip I'm looking elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by ger

I have been coming to Negril since 82. In 89 a newbie friend was out alone at night on his scooter on the west end road looking for a hotel some girls were staying at. He ended up going down one of the lane roads and turned around to come back. A guy was standing on the road with a stick and said 20J to go on your way. It wasn't much money so he took out his wallet to give it to the guy and he grabbed his wallet and ran. He had around $1000 and credit cards. He reported this to the police and an officer drove him up to the area to find out where it happened and told him to come down to the station the next morning. I said good luck on seeing your wallet again. The officer returned to the station and went plain clothed into the area. He found the thief at a small bar with the wallet tucked into the waste of his jeans in full view. He arrested him. My friend went to the station the next day and all that was missing was less then $50. This went to court in a few days in Sav and the thief got around 3 years. I was impressed on how this officer dealt with the situation.

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A little police work goes a long way. Lock them up and throw away the key.

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Originally Posted by juls

Personally, I would stay at 'said' hotel now...With all of the publicity..they will be the one with the best security! They have something to prove now..That's why I say it would be beneficial for them to say..Look, we screwed up, and it won't be happening again..This will be the safest place in Negril!

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Wishful thinking......

lola.......im not looking for an illusion of security....im looking for real security......gaurds that dont sleep at night.....gaurds that actually patrol the property.....cameras that really gets watched.....im not a naive traveler but i do expect that the resort or property i choose to stay on to at least have the basics down......imop rondels dropped the ball on this.....with crime on the rise i would expect security to also be on the rise so to speak....in order for the tourist trade to continue to grow in negril this type of negative feedback needs to addressed.......i hold the hotel responsible and would like to hear a response from them and what they have done or are going to do to make the resort safe for its visitors

I am so tempted to comment on this thread...

Best I keep my mouth shut....

?

Lola, you're the one who recommended the place thay Guirigay and Sweetie Pie went to, right?

Did not read everything but I will. I wonder how long these smaller resorts will be in existence .. that's what makes it Negril, the place we love. 12 Foot walls along NMB and no local ambiance on the beach at all .. now how would that fare? In all fairness to security personnel, they have a lot on their plate for a small wage and have no authority or way to defend themselves. Leave the Ipads, fancy gadgets and jewellery at home or stay in a fancy resort and lock it all up in the fortress. Walk around with these things or having them in your room in any poor country where people have little work, you are a target. Yes, invasion of privacy and potential for getting hurt are not acceptable, but this is a new world order unfortunately. There are few places to stay anywhere now that are not expensive up front, during or after your holiday (if you have to replace stolen goods.) Happy weekend everyone.

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Originally Posted by rompcherry

Did not read everything but I will. I wonder how long these smaller resorts will be in existence .. that's what makes it Negril, the place we love. 12 Foot walls along NMB and no local ambiance on the beach at all .. now how would that fare? In all fairness to security personnel, they have a lot on their plate for a small wage and have no authority or way to defend themselves. Leave the Ipads, fancy gadgets and jewellery at home or stay in a fancy resort and lock it all up in the fortress. Walk around with these things or having them in your room in any poor country where people have little work, you are a target. Yes, invasion of privacy and potential for getting hurt are not acceptable, but this is a new world order unfortunately. There are few places to stay anywhere now that are not expensive up front, during or after your holiday (if you have to replace stolen goods.) Happy weekend everyone.

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For the last several years I have either stayed up in Red Ground or cabins across the road with doors wide open or skeleton key locks.....this year though, I felt the need to stay at a hotel with a safe, buy trip/health insurance.....just felt more relaxed on this trip having some sort of protection...not totally insulated from thievery but better than previous years.....

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Originally Posted by original spanky

Holy crap!thats awful. Was it the same night as the other robbery. Gotta be an inside job. Did you have a pretty good stash of valuables that might have been stolen if you had not waken up?
Door locked?

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Mine was on 2/26 about 3:30 AM. I thought the door was locked. However, I don't remember whether I opened it and checked the knob from the outside or not. I take very few valuables with me to Jamaica. I always leave tablets, lap tops, etc. at home. This trip I even forgot to take my camera (lucky for me). The most I ever have is my IPhone, as I have all of my music on that. My cash, passport, etc. were locked in the safe on the far-side of the room, so he would have had to go around the bed to get there. My IPhone was in my beach bag on the desk near the door. I think he was just trying to grab whatever was close at hand and then get out. I feel for sure that it was the same "team", as my friend said he saw a woman on the beach running in the opposite direction from the thief when he got there.

More security, better wages.....blah blah blah...Security can and will sleep at night if the conditions are right. Keyed time clocks that they have to punch so they have to move every few minutes can still be beat.....been there done that, had the numbered key chains to prove it. During most of my 6 years in college I worked security jobs ranging from guarding a race horse to supervising up to 30 guards per shift....

Security at hotels in Jamaica mostly sucks in my opinion. The guards have for the most part no weapons, no communications to report crimes, no means of restraining any bad people they find, no rewards for catching/deterring crime,.......and on and on. Begging up guests for booze, ganja, food, money, hunting for a bedmate....while not focusing on the job at hand......not in all cases but many.

Sometimes the only way to make changes happen faster and to make sure this doesnt happen again is to name names ie the resort. This way responsible resorts have to react fast and make sure changes happen and not take a wait and see, or maybe it was a one off situation. This is when this forum can make a difference, makes people react, in a positve way.............. just saying lacdeloo

Mr Stripes does make a good point re" the persecuting of criminals....That is one area wher Jam. is severly lacking ,that and cases being held up in court for years ,and years... I'm known of many criminal acts that were commited against locals (no this isnt about tourists and negril) many of these involve, murder, rape,missing persons etc etc..in majority of the cases justice was never done.....I know police will give more attention to tourists and their crimes (its the bread and butter of the country).... but still, when do you ever hear of a criminal that committed a crime against a tourits be held accountable...( except for the above Sav story...) I cant think of any..

I dont know what the answer is to dealing with the increase of crime ....Most likely, one would be spmething many dont want to imagine (esp this board) and that would be to take you dollars elsewhere ....until Jam decide to get a little more serious about dealing with crime..

When i come to a tropical paraside the last thing i want is to be on lock-down mode..cant even have a window open to feel the night breeeze and hear the ocean..have to set up a fort know security system in my room ...unfortunalety, theres not alot of places in Jam you can do that without having excellent security... and yes, i feel people have the right to know what places do have excellent security vs those that dont...

I just hope the tide turns before someone really does get hurt...

ps. in the city in s cali here -we have over 100,000 citizens here-and out local paper everyweek has a police sheet with all the robberies, attemped, asssaults ect listed ...people in our community like to know where this stuff is going on and they feel they have the right to know...

Gerry, yes. You have my email if you have any questions.

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Originally Posted by Lola

Gerry, yes. You have my email if you have any questions.

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So you continue to recommend that place even after the $500 was stolen?

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Originally Posted by suzengrace

Mr Stripes does make a good point re" the persecuting of criminals....That is one area wher Jam. is severly lacking ,that and cases being held up in court for years ,and years... I'm known of many criminal acts that were commited against locals (no this isnt about tourists and negril) many of these involve, murder, rape,missing persons etc etc..in majority of the cases justice was never done.....I know police will give more attention to tourists and their crimes (its the bread and butter of the country).... but still, when do you ever hear of a criminal that committed a crime against a tourits be held accountable...( except for the above Sav story...) I cant think of any..

I dont know what the answer is to dealing with the increase of crime ....Most likely, one would be spmething many dont want to imagine (esp this board) and that would be to take you dollars elsewhere ....until Jam decide to get a little more serious about dealing with crime..

When i come to a tropical paraside the last thing i want is to be on lock-down mode..cant even have a window open to feel the night breeeze and hear the ocean..have to set up a fort know security system in my room ...unfortunalety, theres not alot of places in Jam you can do that without having excellent security... and yes, i feel people have the right to know what places do have excellent security vs those that dont...

I just hope the tide turns before someone really does get hurt...

ps. in the city in s cali here -we have over 100,000 citizens here-and out local paper everyweek has a police sheet with all the robberies, attemped, asssaults ect listed ...people in our community like to know where this stuff is going on and they feel they have the right to know...

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With tourism around 5-6% of GDP I do not think we can say tourism is the bread and butter, more like the roll of paper towels.

Also, I have seen several comments about what happens in the States, hence many folks thought processes. However, you cannot compare Third World to the States, both of which have their pluses and minuses in compare.

What I find interesting is several folks who do not see the thieves as 100% of the problem. Leave your valuables at home, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

And who elected Ping Pong as the almighty one Fred?

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Originally Posted by gerryg123

So you continue to recommend that place even after the $500 was stolen?

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Why not, it was THERE fault for stashing their money in a cup. What were they thinking??? They should expect thieves would hit their room.

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Trying to follow thread. But....