Why do Jamaicans think Americans always need something?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Irie_Dawta

One has to wonder why some people have issues with the people workin the beach and others dont....I for one dont have issues. Maybe it really is all about how you respond/talk to them.

---

You can't lump everyone into the same category, tourists or vendors.

Personally, I ALSO have an issue with vendors who won't take "no" for an answer or put stuff in your hands and then demand payment. I don't however, begrudge vendors for attempting to earn a living.

Another thing...."Respect" is a two way street....if they show me respect, I'll give it back in return. Harassing people and demanding sales is NOT showing "respect". All it takes is a polite "sell pitch" and a polite response, and everything would be cool, IMO.

I'm sure it is, maybe its not you, but the person they encountered just before you, is what set the tone.......
we never say NO more than once-twice, but I do see it happening.....

The security at Coco-La-Palm kept us pretty well insulated from the vendors unless we made contact with them. Of course these kind of things are never a problem at Seastar.

Respect,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muck

You can't lump everyone into the same category, tourists or vendors.

Personally, I ALSO have an issue with vendors who won't take "no" for an answer or put stuff in your hands and then demand payment. I don't however, begrudge vendors for attempting to earn a living.

Another thing...."Respect" is a two way street....if they show me respect, I'll give it back in return. Harassing people and demanding sales is NOT showing "respect". All it takes is a polite "sell pitch" and a polite response, and everything would be cool, IMO.

---

Wow, my first post in forever and....well anyway.
Not sure how you got that I was lumping everyone into the same category but I all I am saying is that maybe, just maybe SOME of the people that are having a hard time could take a look at HOW they are responding to the people on the beach.
I have NEVER in 15 yrs of visiting JA had someone put something on my arm and try to get me to pay for it nor have I had anyone follow me down the beach begging for money. Im just sayin....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Irie_Dawta

I have NEVER in 15 yrs of visiting JA had someone put something on my arm and try to get me to pay for it nor have I had anyone follow me down the beach begging for money. Im just sayin....

---

You're beating the odds....I'll be going for the 5th time this December and have experienced this a few times. The first time it happened, I got caught off guard, wimped out and payed for the bracelet. The next two times this happened (once to my wife), we held our ground and refused payment.

Does this make me want to stay away? Of course not. I love Negril and I love the beach at Negril. In fact, I even like the vendors....or at least 95% of the vendors. That being said, for anyone to say that there AREN'T pushy and shady vendors lurking on the beach are either lying to themselves and everyone else, or confines themselves to an area where they can't be gotten to. (I'm not accusing you of lying, Irie_Dawta ;0))

Most of the advice on this board that gives tips as to how to deal with pushy vendors is spot on. Don't let anyone put anything on your arm, and a firm, but polite "No thank you" will usually work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Irie_Dawta

I have NEVER in 15 yrs of visiting JA had someone put something on my arm and try to get me to pay for it

---

I agree with Muck....you are definitley beating the odds if you spend any time on the beach.

My wife and I have been going to Negril every year since the mid 90's and have had this happen on many occassion. While I don't appreciate it, I just listen to the sales pitch and nicely reject the "gift".

One of my fun memories is the time a higgler in front of Kuyaba offered to sell me Cocaine. When I said no, he begged for a dollar. I told him: "What kind of a drug dealer begs for a dollar? Be a drug dealer, or be a beggar, but you can't be both. Have some pride in what you do!"

and for those who read this and may have gotten "stung" once or twice,most of the time it was for relativity small dollars, and no matter how many years we have been going, in truth we ALL have been "stung" a likkle now and then....and it made us more wiser.............

"Yes I have bought the very, very last bag of weed on the Island, I understand that."..............:D

good one gerryg ;)

without money in our pockets what good are we. what else can we offer?

First time to Long Bay coming up in Dec. We are not newbies to Negril but are to Long Bay. Sorry but after 9 previous trips we have all the trinkets we need so if it's not food and drinks we won't be buying it. Hope after a few days we won't have to keep saying No Thank You. Hate shopping at home so I certainly don't do it on vacation. The hating shopping is what affords us 2 trips to Negril a year.

Thanks Rob! My thoughts exactly.

I hate when the "Fruit Lady" runs out of star apples or june plumbs before she gets to my section of the beach!!!

"Any fruuuuuuuit" - ..................gotta love her and bless her heart I love watching her peel it, cut it and bag it for you!!

Rob....let me be the first? to observe that you all too frequently rush to defense of anything Negril, when you should try understand both sides. I realize that you have a need to be a mouthpiece for the Chamber...but the originator of this thread was making some very legitimate points...to which, unfortunately, there is no solution. Many visitors,, even the seasoned Negrilite, often becomes frustrated with the over the top higgling.......

Over the years, not much progress has been made in 1) educating the local population as to what is and is not in their best interests, and 2) on a much broader scale, dealing with the inappropriate harrassment....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob

Why do you think this is an American thing? Are no other country's tourists subject to the same?

You are visiting a tourist area in a developing country. Tourist areas ALL OVER THE PLANET cater to their visitors. If no one would ask a tourist what they would like, then many people (not you obviously) would never have the gumption to ask.

Why are they asking you for a jetski ride? Maybe because tourists like jetski rides. Why are they asking if you want to go parasailing? That is because tourists do like to parasail. Why are they asking you if you want ganja or coke? Maybe that question is better answered by why is the demand for marijuana and coke so astronomically high in the good ol' US of A?

Asking if you want a girl? Hmmmm, isnt that referred to as the "world's oldest profession"? Can Jamaica stop something that has existed since mankind has been mankind?

A handmade bracelet? Dont you think millions of tourists like yourself have bought handmade bracelets?

Fruit? Dont you need to eat? And something healthy at that! The lobster thing does kind of creep me out too, but to each their own...

When it comes to respect, isnt that a two way street? Does one automatically deserve unconditional respect, or does one earn it? Have you considered what it is like to live in a developing country and seeing people who are much better off than you come to your country and then say they dont want anything of what you are offering? How long would be able to take it? I am not saying you need to buy anything, but why in the world think everyone is trying to scam you?

Was the person who offered the jetski not going to get you a jetski ride at the agreed price? Was the fruit vendor going to scam you on the fruit? Why think everyone you meet is a scammer?

It is perfectly fine if you dont want to give anyone on the beach a dime - that is your dime to give. But why not try to be a bit more open minded and understanding. If you want to walk a beach without anyone disturbing you, you can find that in Jamaica. But dont expect there to be resorts, beach bars or activities of really any kind in those locations. Negril is unique in what it does offer, and that is something for everyone.

---

Hey Ed...FREE ENTERPRISE. Not just for Americans. I get dizzy when I go to Time Square. (The one in NY) The" in your face" ads and hustlers could overwhelm our Negril salesmen. As you say there is no solution ...except perhaps market reaction by demand. Lets bury this subject!.....ROB As mouthpiece for the chamber..do you get free parking???

Rob,
I'm going to cancel my next two trips unless you can guarantee me that before I arrive that you have reached out to and trained every single higgler in Negril on how to interact with all visitors. Can you make this happen? I need to know as I do not want to lose my deposits.

Oh, and how can I forget the need for sidewalks on the West End. I know with the relationships that you have built over the last 20 years that you can make this happen. Problem is, around 5 PM or so I have simply partake'd way too much and I become a hazard while walking the road to all motorist whom are driving.

Oh, can you get someone to deal with the Lionfish. A lot of us out there are deathly afraid of these little buggers and we need to wipe them out quickly. Maybe a daily fish fry where it's buy one lion fish get one free?

And one last thing, stop defending Negril. If it wasn't for guys like you I would have never come. And now that I have found it and love it I do not want anyone to book my favorite rooms when I want to use them.

Things must be pretty boring out there to dig this thread up again...Sheese

When we stayed on The Cliffs we *Missed* The Beach vendors!

As soon as we got the Beach, we were looking for Norm (with binocuars) -- We wanted our Patties!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by captaind

Things must be pretty boring out there to dig this thread up again...Sheese

---

I agree. I think it's time to start a funny thread. Stay tuned!

gerryg123 ~ I literally laughed out loud at your "be proud in what you do" convo. OMG...still giggling.

Booger ~ Let me know the progress on your..er...demands...um...requests? You also made me laugh out loud.

Other than those comments...I'm staying outta this one. :)

Say something last year on the beach, a couple was walking along and every time someone started higgling them they pulled out there whistle and started blowing it. It was funny the different reactions.

not saying it was right or wrong just funny!!

Some of these comments bring tears to my eyes. I just wish there was a food bank or something in Negril .. can't feed the world but.. the people on the beach are in the hot sun all day, trying to make enough $$ for some basic food and may only end up with "dumplings" again tonight and tomorrow. I wonder what it's like for some of these people watching everyone eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at the various restaurants on the beach, wondering why? I've often gone to buy a couple of patties and give them to some of the older fellas who you know may be hungry or may go and sell it from a little cash. I'm just so worried about some of the drug addicts .. it must be a terrible circle for them. This is a strong culture and people who often have little food and word so hard .. I could not imagine. I have been to the hills with friends who have no electric and no running water .. it is amazing how they go about their day, with great strength and a smile always on their face .. a million dollar view and they are thankful and happy for the little they have.See you in August.

typos lol sorry. have to get to that nail place in Negril so I can type better :-(

That's a Gamecock fan for you... They can't help it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ed kennedy

Rob....let me be the first? to observe that you all too frequently rush to defense of anything Negril, when you should try understand both sides. I realize that you have a need to be a mouthpiece for the Chamber...but the originator of this thread was making some very legitimate points...to which, unfortunately, there is no solution. Many visitors,, even the seasoned Negrilite, often becomes frustrated with the over the top higgling.......

Over the years, not much progress has been made in 1) educating the local population as to what is and is not in their best interests, and 2) on a much broader scale, dealing with the inappropriate harrassment....

---

Ed,

Being born American and living my first 31+ years in America and subsequently living for the last 20 years or so in Jamaica puts me in a very unique position to clearly see both sides of this issue. I understand this far better than you may assume. My comments to the original poster were derived precisely from being able to clearly see both of these sides.

My comments were my own and only my own - not dictated by anyone or anything other than the desire to help others to understand what their frustration may be preventing them from understanding. I am not in the employ nor take direction from the Negril Chamber of Commerce. Your speculation that I need to be a mouthpiece for the Chamber is incorrect. You are mistaken. The Negril Chamber is fully able to speak for themselves on this forum, and have done so in the past.

While you may feel that there has not been much progress, I feel that you are misinformed about this as well. You must not be aware of the local school programs for the primary and secondary students to educate students about tourism and how it impacts their future and the Jamaican as well as Caribbean economy. You must also be unaware of the JTB tourism education classes required for tourism permit holders. Add in the fact that the highly visible "Courtesy Corp" now patrol the resort areas with uniformed police allows anyone who is informed to see that the Jamaican government is knowingly working on the inappropriate tourist harassment.

Is there still room for improvement in the harassment issue? Of course there is. But although you may personally be frustrated, there is no need to post your incorrect speculations as fact. Being frustrated is no excuse to throw the truth as well as common sense out the window...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by booger

Rob,
I'm going to cancel my next two trips unless you can guarantee me that before I arrive that you have reached out to and trained every single higgler in Negril on how to interact with all visitors. Can you make this happen? I need to know as I do not want to lose my deposits.

Oh, and how can I forget the need for sidewalks on the West End. I know with the relationships that you have built over the last 20 years that you can make this happen. Problem is, around 5 PM or so I have simply partake'd way too much and I become a hazard while walking the road to all motorist whom are driving.

Oh, can you get someone to deal with the Lionfish. A lot of us out there are deathly afraid of these little buggers and we need to wipe them out quickly. Maybe a daily fish fry where it's buy one lion fish get one free?

And one last thing, stop defending Negril. If it wasn't for guys like you I would have never come. And now that I have found it and love it I do not want anyone to book my favorite rooms when I want to use them.

---

Booger,

I will get right on that.... (grin)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sam I Am

If you dont want to buy from the beach vendors that is fine... totally your decision. But I think it might be a bit harsh to refer to them as scammers and fools. They are vendors and business people and aside from the people selling drugs/prostitution, they are not doing anything illegal and are trying to make a living.

---

Thank you for saying that, the use of that term bothered me as well.

despite the programs that you cite, and the "policemen" that you count, it is clear that the aggressiveness has increased rather than decreased......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob

Ed,

Being born American and living my first 31+ years in America and subsequently living for the last 20 years or so in Jamaica puts me in a very unique position to clearly see both sides of this issue. I understand this far better than you may assume. My comments to the original poster were derived precisely from being able to clearly see both of these sides.

My comments were my own and only my own - not dictated by anyone or anything other than the desire to help others to understand what their frustration may be preventing them from understanding. I am not in the employ nor take direction from the Negril Chamber of Commerce. Your speculation that I need to be a mouthpiece for the Chamber is incorrect. You are mistaken. The Negril Chamber is fully able to speak for themselves on this forum, and have done so in the past.

While you may feel that there has not been much progress, I feel that you are misinformed about this as well. You must not be aware of the local school programs for the primary and secondary students to educate students about tourism and how it impacts their future and the Jamaican as well as Caribbean economy. You must also be unaware of the JTB tourism education classes required for tourism permit holders. Add in the fact that the highly visible "Courtesy Corp" now patrol the resort areas with uniformed police allows anyone who is informed to see that the Jamaican government is knowingly working on the inappropriate tourist harassment.

Is there still room for improvement in the harassment issue? Of course there is. But although you may personally be frustrated, there is no need to post your incorrect speculations as fact. Being frustrated is no excuse to throw the truth as well as common sense out the window...



Booger,

I will get right on that.... (grin)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by booger

I personally could not stand the constant barrage of higglers either. So I hopped in a route taxi and went back to the West End. The West End still has some higglers, but they would leave you alone after a polite "no thanks". I did however meet some interesting folks down on the beach, it was just the several folks that wouldn't take no for an answer. I also had an issue with a guy selling juice who tried to short me on my change. The guard at the resort called him out on it and he gave me back the correct change.
My next trip I'm going to give the beach another shot as I thoroughly enjoy bar hopping.

---

One of the worst approaches and darn near knock down drag out fight I ever had in Negril happened on West End at 3 Dives. To each his own, also had a bad experience at Mi Yard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brasi

I have considered taking a white tee shirt, writing on it, and wearing it on 7-mile walks.

It would say "No thanks mon, mi all set. Respect!!"

Not sure how that would go over...haha.

---

Go ahead and do it , and someone is going to ask you if you need a special roots NATURAL detergent so you can wash your shirt out in the sink to wear tomorrow mon. LOL

My response worked this past trip, because it is true, as much as I am there if someone still tries to sell me the stuff I say "You must be new here?" They look startled and oddly enough start explain that they ARE new on the beach. So I say ok remember the face and I'm a tour guide so would YOU like to go on tour with me??? We both usually have a good laugh. The next day the only reason that person will hail me up is to say hello. These days the most I get on the beach is a "You Bok Mon"...or "Welcome home"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ed kennedy

despite the programs that you cite, and the "policemen" that you count, it is clear that the aggressiveness has increased rather than decreased......

---

Sorry Ed, but you 'appear' to be in a vocal minority, and thats OK, because that's what boards like these are for, but I've never had the problems you've encountered, so I can't relate. The PEOPLE who work the beach are making a living the best they can and the best they are allowed to do. They provide a service that you personally don't want, but there are others of us that go and have gone to Negril regularly and for a long time, that do talk, buy from and enjoy their company. Personally, the beach would be a poorer place without the vendors. I would rather have them on the sand than the hoards of coloured plastic wristband striders, that march stoically ahead untill they get back to their place of 'safety'! Just sayin'. :rolleyes:

chill out,if the world was tilted a llikkle bit it could be you!

respect

semi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ed kennedy

despite the programs that you cite, and the "policemen" that you count, it is clear that the aggressiveness has increased rather than decreased......

---

Ed,

It is not "clear" at all. This is why I mentioned that posting your speculation as fact is incorrect and misleading.

While that may be the feeling you take away from your vacation stay, in many other posts here and on other travel boards, other visitors have stated the exact opposite. A number of people feel that there is less harassment in the recent years than they experienced in their past visits. And please remember that their feelings are every bit as strong, honest, heartfelt and true to them as yours are to you. Dismissing their feelings and stating your feelings as fact is not correct and is misleading.

No one is suggesting that there is no tourism harassment. In fact, Jamaican the government recognizes it and has been implementing policies to address it. Is the situation more or less aggressive than it was years ago? Some visitors will say yes and others will say no. It is a matter of opinion. But is a fact that there are both immediate and long term measures being taken by Jamaica to address this issue.

I understand that you feel frustrated. Being frustrated is not a good way to feel. It is your opinion that there is more harassment at the present time, and you are of course entitled to that opinion. But as stated above, it is in no way "clear" or obvious and certainly not a fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob

Manda,

I dont think anyone here has an issue with what the OP felt during their trip as we have all felt that in our own way. But to deal with these feelings by expressing them on a public message forum in a way that is condescending and condemns all Jamaicans is obviously offensive to many.

Living outside America for the better part of two decades now, I find it startling how many Americans dont understand other countries of the world, or even their neighboring countries for that matter. But for me to phrase my feelings as "Why are Americans so stupid when it comes to the world around them?" and post this on a public forum would not win me many positive comments from the American crowd. Not all Americans are like that - so the blanket statement proposed would not even be accurate in the first place. People reading that comment would be well within their right to point that out. Essentially, when you are posting something for the world to read, you need to keep in mind how your words will come off. This is not your private Facebook wall, but an international travel forum. There are ways of getting your point across without offending people.

The main issue that the OP seemed to have by the comments was when they were awoken on the beach by a vendor. There is no excuse for this behavior. Simply none. But I must ask again why blame all Jamaicans for this, why not complain about the property that allowed it? Most properties would never allow this to happen, so how has this become all Jamaicans fault and not the fault of a single property?

And the scammer concept that is prevalent in the OP's first comment does not seem to be based on facts according to their own words. Since the OP says they never gave any of the beach vendors a dime, how would they know if anyone was scamming them or not? To assume and then post for the world to read everyone you meet in Jamaica is scamming you is one of those comments that will obviously offend many and will be responded to in that manner.

The OP also stated that they didnt intend to single out just Americans, but nevertheless entitled their post "Why do Jamaicans think Americans always need something?". In addition to obviously singling out of American tourists, it does imply an "us vs. them" feeling from the outset. This will also tend to color how people respond to the post. If you post something with combative overtones in the first place, then it should not come as much surprise that some of the replies will come back that way.

And to call part of another culture "silly" as in "silly fist bump" is condescending at best. I am sure this line or even the attitude behind it did not win them many friends here on the board or in Jamaica for that matter.

It is one thing to not like something and state what you didnt like. No one here has any problems with that. Nothing in this world is perfect and we all know that. But if you choose to state your dislikes in a way that is confusing, combative and condescending, then it should come as no surprise if the replies are less than favorable.

---

You said it Rob!! the part in bolded up top is what I find offensive. I have been to Jamaica just once stayed in the Ironshore neighbourhood as guests of wealthy Jamaicans who have no desire to live anyplace outside of Jamaica. So, not all jamaicans are the way your threadline depicts them.

I understand what the OP is saying but, your threadline should not read Why do Jamaicans etc. etc.

So, someone tell this newbie how to handle an aggressive haggler when "No mon, respect" doesn't work, b/c honestly I might just start crying! :)

Steph just respectfully but firmly let them know you are not interested and keep walking if they continue, no problem ;)

I seems to me that "we" are at fault for "Why do Jamaicans think Americans always need something?" And, I too, think it is not just "Americans".

I am also not including everyone in this statement only the ones that "dem cap fit". People go to Jamaica to enjoy themselves. Some enjoy themselves with men... some with women... some with rum... some with ganja and even some with more "exotic tastes". This is a "free market" society and if someone wants it... someone will supply it.

Old timers will remember when handcarved birds were everywhere on the beach and now, not so much. Why? Because people wanted them so people that were carving alligators and not selling so many started carving birds. After a while, people in China started mass producing the birds cause they could do it cheaper than what a Jamaican carver would do it for and now a lot of the once handcarved birds are simply junk but a whole lot of higglers can make money if they can get someone to buy them.

Stop buying things and sooner or later people will stop trying to sell them. Personally, I don't mind a person trying to sell me something as long as I can say "no thank you" and then they go back to their business. I don't really have a problem as most people do just that. Others who are more agressive won't take no for an answer but they wouldn't take no for an answer anyways but I don't lump them into the same category as I would a salesman or a higgler.

I live in So. Florida and some don't take no for an answer here either. These are the people who actually "NEED" something. Salespeople and higglers satisfy the demand that exists and, in my opinion, thank goodness for that.

Peace and Guidance

Sometimes they've been handy in helping me remember what I'm needing when I've seen to have forgotten....lol.

We love the vibe in Negril. The people, the music and the freedom. The amount of poverty there is terrible. However, one of the reasons we go is because by leaving behind our tourist dollars, we are helping the locals. Our friend Kingsley shared with us how different things were when he was growing up in Negril before tourism. It wasn't a pretty story.

If I wish to buy something, I will haggle just a bit...it's all part of the vibe. However, I will never be disrespectful to them by offering a grossly undervalued amount. Everyone is trying to make a living and I respect that. However, by the same token, I work for a living too and spend plenty while I am there and I wish to just be able to say once, "No thank you" and be left alone. Respect. I respect that you are trying to make a living and I wish I would be respected when I politely say, "No thank you".

Did the beach stroll once and I was disappointed that I was not able to leisurely stroll with my hubby and just take in the sun, sand and water without keeping my head down in order not to make eye contact and be hassled.

We have been 6 times in 2-1/2 years and always stay on the cliffs. But our last visit was 2 weeks split among Catcha and Banana Shout. Couldn't walk out the gate to simply stroll down to Out of Town Pastry for a patty without being hassled so many times. Never did get our patties...ending up catching one of the cabs and heading back to Catcha.

Whenever I hear Reggae music and think of our friends there: Kingsley, Miss Delsie, Milo, Marianne, Champion, etc. it saddens me that we have no desire to go back any time soon because of not being able to just enjoy the location without the constant hassle.

Went to the Abaco's (out islands of the bahamas) last month and in January will be staying on St. Thomas. Maybe after a few different places, our minds will want to go back to where our heart loves...Negril.

lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Twister

Sometimes they've been handy in helping me remember what I'm needing when I've seen to have forgotten....lol.

---