Bnewb,
Very true. Too bad some never get a chance to meet the people in those organizations.
Even some who have visited numerous time over the years only think of Jamaican society being ganja smoking, dreadlocked hustlers. More's the pity.
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Bnewb,
Very true. Too bad some never get a chance to meet the people in those organizations.
Even some who have visited numerous time over the years only think of Jamaican society being ganja smoking, dreadlocked hustlers. More's the pity.
Understood, Captd...but everyone has enough political and business issues to deal with in their home countries.
Personally, I think if you're on vacation...you're here to rest, enjoy & hopefully learn a little about the culture...not get into the heavy political/business dealings. But, maybe that's just how I prefer my vacation! :cool:
i must second this:
that was my first experience of jamaican people, when we went through Gilbert on my very first trip, and that shaped my opinions of the people almost above anything else - because when the chips are down is when you really see peoples' true characters. During the storm, and after it passed, hotels took us in and sheltered us, and anyone else who needed it, for free; chefs and restaurants fed us, and others who were hungry, for free; people got down in the mud with us and helped us find our belongings & wash out the mud; went door to door seeing who needed needed help, and giving it; - swept, mopped, rebuilt, not just 'their own' place, but everything they could reach regardless of local or tourist...... i could go on and on about how the people in the west end all worked together, giving whatever material things they had to others - including tourists - that needed it more than they did, even though they themselves had also been nearly wiped out. and people would NOT take our money even offerred in thanks. in the end we wound up giving away everything we had, not cause anyone asked us for it, but because we were so grateful for the way local people came to our aid, and each other's, and also cause everybody needed just everything, after so much of their stuff had been destroyed.Quote:
After a hurricane, when current and communications are down and the banks are not open, Jamaicans shine with the strength, resilience, compassion and pride that not all people can claim.
that kind of generosity and caring and pulling together for the good of the community, is what kept me coming back.
and in spite of how the topic of this thread has worsened over the years, and has become disappointingly prevalent and tiresome in the main tourist areas, i know that's not the way the majority of the population rolls. I believe there is no "inherent" sense of "entitlement" - imho that mindset and behavior has has increased in direct proportion to the increase/influx of "wealthy" (perception, not reality) tourists. to me it seems more a kind of societal reaction to the tourism phenomenon.... not something that's a natural part of the society. i'm not saying that's it's 'right', or that it's an appropriate reaction - but i can see how it has come about, and increased proportionally, right alongside the increase in tourism. But because i know better from direct experience, i know it's just a portion of people behaving that way; not necessarily the prevalent, or natural, mindset of the overall population.
Miss Blue,
Your post strikes the reality of Jamaicans right on target. I was also here in Negril during Gilbert and saw the things you are talking about with my own eyes. What I took away from that experience became the main reason why I ever considered moving to Negril. And while tourism continues to grow, I still know that same reality day after day, year after year here...
one other thing i have to add - and i'm not intending to sound like a knowitall or a snob, but it's NOT always true that "once you go, you know". many people who've gone more recently have only expereinced a tiny part of the whole..... their experiences barely scratch the surface of the true nature of the people, or what REALLY goes on in the population, behind the tourism scene. you gotta look a LOT deeper before reaching conclusions about the whole society based upon what one has seen in few weeks, or even a couple months. most ppl think i'm nuts when i say i was GLAD that my first trip was during a disaster of epic proportions - but to me, i feel like i was lucky. i got a tiny peek behind the superficial, before 'mainstream' tourism took hold with such a vengeance and corrupted so much. i feel extremely grateful and lucky that i got to see that these annoying customs are only a small part, not the whole ball of wax, about the place.
Miss Blue, I love your post. That was a great topic about the people being helpful during Hurricane Gilbert. Although I have had some bad experiences during my trips to Jamaica I still feel there are some sincere people that I am longing to meet. I have traveled outside the touristy areas and find that I have had some of the best times in Jamaica during those times. I recently traveled to St. Anns Bay to a impoverished community and it was so enlightening watching how the whole community cooked together, played together and worked together as one. They made me feel so comfortable sitting around their bar and listening to reggae. Just the Unity and the Natural Mistic of the whole experience have me longing for the next visit to venture out and have that One Love feeling that Bob Marley sing about.
I DID read the whole thread. So much touched on here, good discussions going on. Interestingly enough, prior to reading this thread I was discussing some of these very same subjects with folks this week.
First - and really where this all started - friendship and what it truly means. To me, a friend, a TRUE friend is a give and take, a trust, a feeling of comfort and safety around that person and of course laughing with them in the good times and crying with them in the bad. A true friend doesn't show up to your door with their hand out all the time. I am so fortunate that the Jamaican friends I have are just that - TRUE friends. Never ask me for anything. I spent time cultivating these friendships (as one does with all friendships); it doesn't happen overnight or in a week's time. I've read so much on this subject, how folks go on vacation and make these "friends", give out their home phone numbers, shower them with gifts and cash....all after knowing them perhaps for several years but only for weeks or days out of those years. A true friend is not calling you for money for their sick auntie or asking that when you come you bring them expensive kicks. A true friend is not showing up at your condo at meal times expecting to be fed, then dissapears when the food runs out. I think visitors to Jamaica really have to get a grip on who they are be-friending. As far as "business friendships" - well....I know that my friend is also a driver I use when I'm there. He's my friend when he's my friend - when he's my driver I pay him for his services. Nothing more. He comes over for dinner occassionally - he invites me to his home for dinner occassionally. GIVE AND TAKE.
No matter who we are or what we do we as visitors are always going to be perceived as having more - if not for the simple fact that we can come and go from our home countries as we please. Bring a Jamaican visiting the US to Costco....and those perceptions are reinforced. I do believe its not just about someone observing the amount of money we spend while on vacation there but its more about the choices we have - rich or poor as US and Canadian and European residents we have MANY MORE choices than most Jamaicans have in general.
Giving out the phone numbers I never understood and friends of mine from California did that exact thing....and were very hurt by the results (feelings, not money etc.) Here's a scenario - I live in a tourist area and do have occasion to sit and have a drink with visitors from time to time or even chat with some on the street where I live. Now - imagine me asking THEM for their phone number. Do you really think they'd give it to me? Absolutely not! And here we are, in white bread America. Not once, not ever did anyone ever offer up their phone number to me saying, "give me a call if you need anything at all" or even "next time you are in Temecula, give me a ring and we'll go for a drink." Its sounds ludicrous - cause it is.
Interesting observation by Beach Bum and I appreciate his candor. I will say though that the Jamaicans I know are the furthest from lazy there is. Each and everyone is hard working and none of them - NONE - would ever ask anyone for a hand-out. They are proud, proud people.
This bears repeating - the Jamaicans I know. I don't know them all obviously. But I can see where folks not spending a lot of time in a "real" community, being bombarded with beggars or with these so-called friends asking for stuff all the time might get that impression. I truly believe this is the exception - not the rule.
I agree with Bnewb about Negril as a community. In the past ten years it has become sometimes over-the-top touristy, built-up and especially during high season, loaded with vendors and opportunists from other parts of the island. I am very fortunate to not live around that and can still hold on to the Negril I first visited in 1983 - a slower moving, less built, less touristy Negril - not to mention at times way less populated. Its all about accessibility...up until the highway was finished in MoBay Negril was still pretty darn inaccessible and it kept not only the tourist population somewhat down but also kept other folks from around the island who might want to take advantage of the rich tourists away more. The Negril of 1983, 1993, and 2000 even is a FAR different place today. This is not a good or bad thing - it just is. As someone who loves Negril and spends a significant amount of time there each year I know and accept this. It is what it is.
I too enjoyed Miss Blue's post about how folks come together in a time of difficulty. You saw it happen after Hurricane Gilbert - I saw it happen after Hurricane Ivan - heck I saw it happen after the Loma Prieta Earthquake in San Francisco in 1989. Its more pronounced on Negril's West End since its a smaller community but we all do pull together in good times and bad.
Look - my first reaction when I saw the title to this thread was "Why do Philadelphians find it so easy to beg?" I had just returned from the city of Brotherly Love and was approached by no fewer than five or six people for spare change and cigarettes every time I walked out of my hotel room door. "Why do folks from DC find it so easy to beg"? I was pan-handled at Washington Medical Center's cafeteria...I've been panhandled in some of the US and Canada's great cities....Toronto, Vancouver, New York, LA, San Francisco...the only place I was not panhandled was in Paris. And maybe there that was a fluke but I do believe poverty is universal - but what is not universal is each culture's safety net for their people.
5 stars to what Mz Blue wrote: "...to me it seems more a kind of societal reaction to the tourism phenomenon.... not something that's a natural part of the society."
If I may answer a question with a question please
In response to butterfly who asked "why do jamaicans find it so easy to beg?"
With the minimum wage only moving this year from $4,070 to $4,500 for a 40-hour work week.(In the case of industrial security guards, the minimum wage increased from $6,050 to $6,655 for a 40-hour work week.)
Bear in mind some of the Jamaican workforce could be ( and a lot are ) one parent families and sometimes (most times) through no fault of their own.
Those who are lucky enough to find a job may find it takes 2-3 hours to get to work and then the same home again.
Sometimes this is a 4 cab journey (2 each way)
They need to pay rent for their home from this wage so what properties back home can you rent/buy for a similar amount? As charges out there are pretty comparable to places such as U.S.A or U.K
How much do you think is left over to feed their family?
If you see any of the online menus for Negril as an example 4500ja will buy you probably 3 pizzas
so imagine having 3 children and you buy them a pizza each> JUST ONE> just one pizza> one day in a whole week. That's it you have no rent money/ no gas/ no fare to work /no food for the week/NOTHING. You're screwed for just wanting to give your child just one little pizza and children in Jamaica want treats (if food should even be considered a treat) just as any other child in the world does and it upsets me to think that a hardworking mother or father working 40 hrs a week has to face dilemmas like this EVERY single day-pay the rent vs treat/feed the kids
walk 2-3 hrs to work and back again to save 500j for an extra bag of rice and veg? Or get a cab and go a bit hungrier one or two nights?
So my question is NOT why do they find it so easy to beg? BUT WHY are they begging? and is there anyway any of us can help stop the need to beg?
and also:
If you were the head of the household that I just described what would you do?
be honest
Because when you have children and you see them hungry I am pretty sure we will all beg if we have to.
I can honestly say if I knew I was going home to a hungry house full after working my butt off for 40 hrs for THAT measly amount SURE as hell I would walk the beach on my way home and "beg" and try to top up my wage somehow anyhow knowing that I will walk past thousands of tourists with thousands of dollars spare.
Personally I would probably not outright beg for it I would offer something in return (professional- respectful and legal may I add!)but so do many of the people in Negril.
I guess begging to 5 tourists and getting 100ja from each of them means no 6 hr (3 there 3 back) blistering feet + swollen ankles walk to work the next day Yippee!
Darned right I would be on that beach
WOULDN'T YOU?
Some are working full time and growing most of their own food and still do not have enough left to live with basic needs being met.
This is a major problem that the government can and should address,But in the meantime all we average run of the mill tourists can do who have no voice in Jamaicas cabinet
is to each one help one and hope for the best.
Jamaica is a very small island compared to many countries that a lot of us here are from so if each person visiting the island helped one person living on the island then the island would be truly paradise with no reason or a need for a person to beg.
There is a saying "if you don't ask -you don't get"
So if you are hungry or broke and no money then I guess begging becomes an option.We are all born into different standards of living, some rich , some financially poor what one may think as an annoying bugaboo of society, begging and in ones way of a sunset view, another persons heart may go out to that person and find a genuine need they may be able to help with and some of these "beggars" do not always need cash. Some need a friend one who listens. Some people can help immensely without having to give 1 dollar if only they tried while others may fob them off as annoying beggars.
It is all down to what is inside yourself.
So please remember (everyone) that if all of us (tourists) just helped ONE person down there it could be a much better place
and remember it is very easy to lose everything you have in just one moment.Even if you are a billionaire 1 stroke of bad luck/hard times you lose it so then you will rely on other peoples kindheartedness something a lot of people forget to have once they have money.
One of the reasons why I love Jamaicans is that even when they have NOTHING they will try to help you if they can and also keep you smiling while they are at it.
Quite simply they find it easy to beg I imagine because they have needs that are not being met, even basic needs most times (Maslows theory) My theory is=Rubbish wage-can't pay rent-hungry-kids to feed=beg a little to get by.
Who are we to judge?That could be me or you out there never say never.
Well said and very true TicToc.