If 2,000,000 tourists come to Jamaica per year and spend $1,000, where does money go?

Been clicking around the net. There were 2 million tourist visitors per year, and I conservatively estimated each one spends an average of $1,000. So why can't we have ambulence services in Negril?

Where does all the money go? Certainly not on social services for the poor, right? If it did, they wouldn't have to beg so much.

I would like to know as well.

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Originally Posted by gerryg123

Been clicking around the net. There were 2 million tourist visitors per year, and I conservatively estimated each one spends an average of $1,000. So why can't we have ambulence services in Negril?

Where does all the money go? Certainly not on social services for the poor, right? If it did, they wouldn't have to beg so much.

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Probably making the rich richer

Good question Gerryg123!!! Contact the Minister of Tourism and Entertainment Kenneth Wykeham McNeill, MD, MP and ask him then let us know what his response is. He is also the Member of Parliament for Western Westmoreland, Jamaica which is part of Negril.

wykeham.mcneill@mot.gov.jm

https://www.facebook.com/WykehamMcNeill

http://www.mot.gov.jm/contact/Contac...20of%20Tourism

The heading on the letter should read as follows, The Honourable Dr. Kenneth Wykeham McNeill, MD, MP. Yes, Honourable-that's how they spell it.

There are about 3,000,000 Jamaicans on the island. If every single penny of what those 2 million visitors spend went directly to the people that would be a whopping us$667 per Jamaican per year. And that is if it was given directly to the people and not one dollar spent at the hotel, bars, restaurants or stores. And please note that out of the 2 million visitors to Jamaica last year, about 500,000 came to Negril.

Getting back to economic facts, there is this thing called "cost of goods sold" and "cost of services provided" that have to be taken into account. First, you land at the airport and there are certain maintenance and upgrade costs associated with that operation which comes out of that us$1000 that each visitor spends and are not part of the fees paid on the airline ticket itself.

Then you arrive in Negril using the highway which also has maintenance and upgrade costs that must come out of that same us$1000 per person.

Then you have the hotel which has staff, electricity, water, phone and other operating, maintenance and upgrade costs directly associated with its remaining open that comes out of that same us$1000.

Bars and restaurants have employee and inventory costs as well as maintenance and upgrades associated with their operation, and that must be covered by that same us$1000 per person.

As you can see, at this point that us$1000 is being spread pretty thin and the way the government collects its money is by this thing called "taxes". The GCT you pay is one of those taxes, as well as the us$1 per night per room tax that was added last year.

So out of that us$1000 per person from those 2 million visitors, the government GCT collects about 333 million or about us$110 per year per Jamaican resident. There are other business and employee taxes, which vary on the kind of business and the amount they earn in profit. There is also the TEF taxes so lets estimate on the high side and take that to 1.5 billion us dollars or us$500 per Jamaican resident per year.

Out of us$500 per person comes the airport and road work already mentioned - along with all the other infrastructure necessary to make a country operate. And this includes every square inch of Jamaica, not just the tourist areas. There are hospitals, schools, government offices, government workers, medical services including the universal health care, etc that all need to be paid out of that us$500 per Jamaican resident.

Two years ago a new state of the art ambulance along with trained EMTs were made available in Negril. That came out of that money that the government made in taxes. And last year the sidewalk project was started in Negril to make the walking safer. That has also come out of the taxes that the government has collected.

So last year the Jamaican government earned approximately us$500 per resident and had to pay out for all the costs mentioned above. How much do you think is left over per person, if any, once all those expenses have been covered?

Tourism makes up about 5% of Jamaica's GDP (gross domestic product) with the service industry making up 60% according to the Index Mundi 2013 Economic Profile:

http://www.indexmundi.com/jamaica/economy_profile.html

By the way, I did estimate that on the very high side, out of the us$2 billion that Gerry estimated, the actual taxes would be well under a billion, let alone 1.5 - but even at the high estimates it shows how little we are talking about per Jamaican resident.

Speaking of the sidewalk......are they ever going to finish it?????

I would imagine they would finish. The budget is there. They were stopped prematurely last year in October to make them more "aesthetically pleasing" by adding the bricks lining the walkway.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/weste...ENDED_15224030

The stoppage and the new work obviously put the plans behind schedule and they will continue once high season is over.

And then the plans have the West End to be done next.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica

"An estimated 1.3 million foreign tourists visit Jamaica every year" would mean the 2 million tourists coming each year would be incorrect.

Also at $1,000 per person being spent, that's hardly life changing when it comes to infrastructure.

Like Rob said, there is a LOT of overhead when it comes to a country, not to mention that the 1.3 million tourists is for ALL of Jamaica, not just Negril.

Just curious gerry, where are you getting your numbers from? If each person is only spending $1,000 including hotel/airfare almost none of it is actually being spent in Jamaica.

Jamaica by a lot of standards is still considered a VERY poor country even when you account for Tourism based on the number of people living in Jamaica.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...%29_per_capita

To put 2 million visitors into perspective, look at the World Tourism Rankings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

Being in the retail business this thread reminds me of people that complain about the price of a $2.95 birthday card and then complain that it's $3.13 with tax(6% in MD).

A $2.95 card costs me $1.475+SHIPPING,my overhead is massive, and the number of people buying cards is on a decline.

The odds of me breaking even or making a small profit are extremely slim to none, and most customers buy their card and go on their way. But then there is always one or two guys that need me to explain to them why a card is $2.95 and why I'll probably never see a dime of that.

Money is a fickle thing, the more money that is pumped into a system doesn't translate into better services, heck if you look at the Olympics they're spending over $50 BILLION dollars on the event and they couldn't even be prepared for a one off event with hotels half finished, plumbing that doesn't work, and massive corruption at every level.

http://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-6432&y=-6880&z=2

If you're interested at a look of money based on scale, an interesting fact is that most people aren't capable of processing a billion dollars or a trillion dollars in their brain other than as an abstract concept.

Blake...Gerry was referring to the 2mill visitors in 2013...first time Jamaica went over the 2mill mark.

Also a lot of the resorts are not owned by Jamaicans or Jamaican companies. My bet is that a lot of the money is leaving the island. Some of those resorts don't even buy food from Jamaica and have food transported by cruise ship from other countries like the United States. The only money making its way to the Jamaican government and people is the tax and money spent between tourist and locals.

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Originally Posted by jsteil

Also a lot of the resorts are not owned by Jamaicans or Jamaican companies. My bet is that a lot of the money is leaving the island. Some of those resorts don't even buy food from Jamaica and have food transported by cruise ship from other countries like the United States. The only money making its way to the Jamaican government and people is the tax and money spent between tourist and locals.

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jsteil,

I think you are misinformed, but even the foreign owned resorts have to pay taxes to the government. There is their corporate income tax, the GCT on all purchases the guests make (the total AI bill, the room, bars, restaurants, stores besides the duty free) as well as the new room tax which hits the larger mega resorts such as foreign owned Spanish chains the hardest, the charge is per room per night:

1 to 50 rooms US$1
51 to 100 rooms US$2
101 rooms and over US$4

If by chance a resort chain gets a cruise ship to deliver their food, they still have to pay import duty taxes just as in all imported goods. They are simply using the cruise ship instead of a cargo ship - but the import duties work exactly the same.

And many of the "international" chains on the island such as Margaritaville, KFC, Burger King, etc are owned by Jamaican franchisees and work exactly the same way franchises work in North America. One difference is that the successful ones use local Jamaican products when possible, such as KFC which uses local poultry and Burger King using Jamaican beef, lettuce, tomatoes and potatoes. One extreme example how important this is can be demonstrated by the McDonald's franchise chain that failed in Jamaica. They chose to import all their products and Burger King countered with advertisements that they used Jamaican products and people voted with their dollars and the McDonald's chain is no longer on the island.

And contrary to what rumor and speculation is spread all over the Internet - Margaritaville is locally owned by Island Entertainment and pay franchisee royalties to Jimmy Buffett. Island Entertainment also supplies products to many of the island's international chain restaurants and creates many jobs here in Jamaica.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/busin...W-JOBS_9363337

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2...business6.html

The foreign owned chains of course have to pay their employees, so that money makes it directly in the hands of the locals.

And in case you didnt know, SuperClubs Resorts, Couples Resorts, Sandals Resorts and Beaches Resorts are all Jamaican owned. These chains are instrumental in charity projects all over island including building schools, parks, libraries, medical and other community services.

I am constantly puzzled why people tend to think that the Jamaican government would not look out for their own interests. And with the IMF overlooking every deal made, they have to make sure that international deals are made in order to be able to repay the IMF loans...

Why people think this is beyond me... especially with all the proof available to the contrary.

Doesn't this thread kind of remind you of the "water discolored" thread?

Pseudo-Economist Tourists and "cut and paste links" Foreign Business owners (this time) who think they know the runnings here in Negril and all over Jamaica based on Internet searches and a week or two visit a year.

You know what they say about doing something over and over again and expecting a different result?

Anyone who lives in Jamaica certainly heard about the 2mil visitors this year and understands firsthand how taxing works.

Just my take on this thread.

Peace and Guidance

"I am constantly puzzled why people tend to think that the Jamaican government would not look out for their own interests. And with the IMF overlooking every deal made, they have to make sure that international deals are made in order to be able to repay the IMF loans..."

If the Jamaican government was looking out for it's own interest would the IMF have to bail them out?

There could be volumes of detail written to answer that incredibly complicated economic situation, but the simple answer is that this is a small island country that does not have all the necessary natural resources to meet the needs of its growing population and needed to borrow funds in order to provide the services that the population requires. That is why the IMF exists in the first place. If there wasnt a worldwide need, the IMF wouldnt exist. The IMF wasnt created to help only Jamaica...

I would think that the list of smaller countries, not considered developing or 3rd world taking assistance from the IMF has gotten bigger since the 2008 Recession.

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Originally Posted by Rob

jsteil,

I think you are misinformed, but even the foreign owned resorts have to pay taxes to the government. There is their corporate income tax, the GCT on all purchases the guests make (the total AI bill, the room, bars, restaurants, stores besides the duty free) as well as the new room tax which hits the larger mega resorts such as foreign owned Spanish chains the hardest, the charge is per room per night:

1 to 50 rooms US$1
51 to 100 rooms US$2
101 rooms and over US$4

If by chance a resort chain gets a cruise ship to deliver their food, they still have to pay import duty taxes just as in all imported goods. They are simply using the cruise ship instead of a cargo ship - but the import duties work exactly the same.

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I did state that they paid taxes. The delivering of food was from a Life & Debt documantary on free trade zones in Jamaica.

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Originally Posted by jsteil

I did state that they paid taxes. The delivering of food was from a Life & Debt documantary on free trade zones in Jamaica.

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While Life & Debt is an excellent historical documentary explaining how the old IMF and World Bank operations worked at the time and did leave Jamaica in worse shape than when it began, it needs to be put in its historical perspective. The World Trade Center buildings were both still standing when that documentary was released and the world has undergone significant changes since then.

Michael Manley was interviewed for the documentary and he died back in 1997. Released in April of 2001, the IMF under went restructuring with less "draconian" rules in 2005 and then again last year. I am in no way defending the IMF (frankly, they dont care about what I say anyway - grin), but facts being what they are, they have eased up a bit on their old dictatorial way of micro-managing the economy's of their loaner countries.

Since that movie was released Jamaica has gotten out of "partnership" with the IMF under the PNP and then back into "partnership" with the IMF under the JLP. When the PNP came back into the government as the ruling party, they have renegotiated the terms of the loans from the IMF, which was unthinkable back in 2001 when the movie was released.

The free trade zone rules have changed substantially as well since 2001, with the current free trade zone rules bearing little resemblance to the rules in effect 13 years ago.

Thank you for your explanation. What you said would make perfect sense if this was 2001 when the documentary was released. But the times have changed and so has those trade zone laws.

"The International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank are run by their member governments, but not on the basis of one-country-one-vote. Instead, governments have votes based on the amount of money they pay in to the organizations. In this sense, they operate much like private corporations, except that the owners of shares are governments instead of individuals.

The U.S. government has by far the largest share of votes in both the IMF and World Bank and, along with its closest allies, effectively controls their operations. In 1998, the U.S. held 18% of the votes in the IMF and 15% in the World Bank. Together, the United States, Germany, Japan, the U.K. and France control about 40% of the shares in both institutions. With the rest of the shares spread among 175 other member governments, some holding a tiny number of votes, the United States is effectively in charge.

So the people running the IMF and the World Bank are the same folks who run the U.S. government and the governments of its closest allies. Since the institutions were founded at the end of World War II, the president of the World Bank has always been a U.S. citizen, and the head of the IMF has always been a European. These are all men, generally coming from the top of the financial industry.

While the IMF and the Bank operate as extensions of the U.S. government's foreign policy, they are well insulated from democratic accountability. Congress, to say nothing of the populace in general, has no role overseeing their operations, and they operate largely outside the public eye (though Congressional ire sometimes appears in response to a request for more funds).

What the IMF and the World Bank do is lend money to governments. Because many governments, especially governments of poor countries, are often in dire need of loans and cannot readily obtain funds through financial markets, they turn to these institutions.

The IMF and the Bank make sure that U.S. allies get the financial support they need to stay in power, abuses of human rights, labor, and the environment notwithstanding; that big banks get paid back, no matter how irresponsible their loans may have been; and that other governments continually reduce barriers to the operations of U.S. business in their countries, whether or not this conflicts with the economic needs of their own people."

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Originally Posted by Rob

The IMF wasnt created to help only Jamaica...

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The terms and conditions that go along with these loans are designed to benefit the IMF members at the long term expense of the developing nations. It's a form of exploitation that does not involve the use of deadly force or threat thereof.

Here is the link from where Craig123 quoted this information from the Third World Traveler site which was apparently copied from an article in Dollars and Sense magazine July/August edition on page 41 back in 1999:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/IM...ThePeople.html

And once again, a lot has changed in those past 15 years...

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Originally Posted by Rob

And once again, a lot has changed in those past 15 years...

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Noam Chomsky would beg to differ with you Rob.

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Originally Posted by Craig123

Noam Chomsky would beg to differ with you Rob.

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I am not positive, but I dont think he has registered yet here on the Board... (grin)

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Originally Posted by Rob

I am not positive, but I dont think he has registered yet here on the Board... (grin)

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Good come back Rob. Nuff said on this topic. :)

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Originally Posted by gerryg123

... If it did, they wouldn't have to beg so much.

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Hahahaha Gerry how does so much begging happen around you?

Because he is the GENERAL

Is it true that casinos may come to Jamaica? I think this is a terrible idea. I heard this from a Jamaican, a few weeks ago.

The IMF wasn't created to help anyone in the third world. Just a capitalistic way of continued imperialism thru colonization.

The IMF might worry about making loan payments and Jamaica passing economic "tests". But this doesn't translate into help or change for the general population.

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Originally Posted by accompong

doesn't this thread kind of remind you of the "water discolored" thread?

Pseudo-economist tourists and "cut and paste links" foreign business owners (this time) who think they know the runnings here in negril and all over jamaica based on internet searches and a week or two visit a year.

You know what they say about doing something over and over again and expecting a different result?

Anyone who lives in jamaica certainly heard about the 2mil visitors this year and understands firsthand how taxing works.

Just my take on this thread.

Peace and guidance

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ditto!

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Originally Posted by captaind

ditto!

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Regardless of ones know how, experience, or greater understanding of all things Jamaica, the truth is the truth. Jamaica's greater issues are not IMF or any other outside force. Jamaica's issues are their own and can only be fixed by Jamaica.

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Originally Posted by booger

Regardless of ones know how, experience, or greater understanding of all things Jamaica, the truth is the truth. Jamaica's greater issues are not IMF or any other outside force. Jamaica's issues are their own and can only be fixed by Jamaica.

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I agree.

OH ???? I get it now,,,so having 2 Million visitors is like some burden,,right? The country has what other Caribbean countries Want,tourist and tourist dollars. Yet, things just don't change.

I don't need a degree in any accounting class or complicated "lectures" on the breakdown of the money.

There is an obvious waste of money,likely through corruption and me eyeball test tells me Little has changed.

I still see NO police with Two Million tourist and I don't get all Giddy over a sidewalk that should have been there a Long time ago.

"Everything is political. I will never be a politician or even think political. Me just deal with life and nature. That is the greatest thing to me."

Bob Marley

Keep in mind that number of visitors includes all cruise ship passengers, which I believe is a big part, some of them not even stepping off the boat!

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Originally Posted by gerryg123

Where does all the money go? Certainly not on social services for the poor, right? If it did, they wouldn't have to beg so much.

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We can ask the same question of the US and Canada

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Originally Posted by dash

We can ask the same question of the US and Canada

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Please !!!!!! You compare a country that in 2014 is Still building a simple sidewalk to USA or Canada ????

Notice how when this topic comes up the ones who ask "why" are marked as Big Dummies.....As the fire still burns...

The topic gets all political and complicated ???? It is what it is...... Arrest of criminals is a fairy tale dream that's never happens in reality....

I am about to get attacked now. Or lectured to by those who are Wise and sit on hilltops and grow long beards.

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."

Plato

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Originally Posted by Fred Stripe

Please !!!!!! You compare a country that in 2014 is Still building a simple sidewalk to USA or Canada ????

Notice how when this topic comes up the ones who ask "why" are marked as Big Dummies.....As the fire still burns...

The topic gets all political and complicated ???? It is what it is...... Arrest of criminals is a fairy tale dream that's never happens in reality....

I am about to get attacked now. Or lectured to by those who are Wise and sit on hilltops and grow long beards.

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Fred,

You state that you see no police. There are thousands who post on this board who have seen them personally, hundreds here who have taken pictures of them either on purpose or they just happened to be in the photo, and many here who have spoken to these officers that you claim do not exit.

That may be why you feel get "attacked" or "lectured". Others posters see them because they are indeed there.

Jamaica is not a fairy tale, it is a real country. And yes, this is truly an incredibly complicated topic. Entire volumes could be written about all the aspects of any country's economy and how and why it is what it is, and what things can or cannot be done to change it to improve all aspects of its infrastructure. As well as what aspects should be changed or not in the first place. And I doubt you would ever get a consensus on the topic because it is so complicated.

The basic facts have already been stated. But deeper conversation about all the socio-economic aspects of Jamaica are beyond the focus of this board.

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Originally Posted by poolguywindsor

Keep in mind that number of visitors includes all cruise ship passengers, which I believe is a big part, some of them not even stepping off the boat!

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No, this number did not include cruise ship passengers, but those who came in and stayed on the island.

It is what it is Rob,,,,Just because You say it's SOOO complicated does nothing to convince me. You always act like the wartime consigliare when these topics come up.....

Once again,,tell me of the LAST arrest by a police officer where 2 Million tourist go to????

Just One please??????OOPPSS the cops are too busy doing the Shakedown to the tourist....

Ya know in the cars o OPPSS weed is illegal pay the fine Mister Tourist.....

Incredibly complicated ??? Please Rob??? In USA the put cardboard cop cars on the road for the visual threat and guess what,,it Works....

You never did respond to my idea of the hotels& bars& restaurants on Long Bay chipping in what? $20 bucks a day to hire four guards to walk the beach? All you need is a visual deterrence.....

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Originally Posted by Integrity

Is it true that casinos may come to Jamaica? I think this is a terrible idea. I heard this from a Jamaican, a few weeks ago.

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There have been "gaming lounges" on the island for many years, these include electronic gambling but included no "live" table games with dealers. They may be referred to by people as casinos but are technically "gaming lounges".

There have been talk for years of some hotels already being allowed to add these dealer tables such as blackjack, baccarat and roulette, but none have been added yet to my knowledge anywhere on the island. But it does seem to be in the works.