The silence is deafning!

There have been some faint inklings on this board for some while that all is not as smooth in the west end. Something that our curator Rob tends to hide from unsuspecting boardies! Now I have not been to Negril for some time and I do miss the life but I have, with some readings in the local Jah rags that there is a rouge group of criminals harboring in the west end. If these same two men that killed your baker are from this same gang then does Rob not have a obligation to inform his readers that this is a concern? I know he will not allow negative posts because he has a responsibility to his sponsors of this site to promote the good vibes of Negril. But if and I think this problem is a little more then if. Rob should be bringing some attention to what could be a problem for anyone who after getting their information from this site would not be informed that areas of Negril have been subjected to more criminal activities then other areas!

We are going to Catcha at the end of August. We are really feeling a little uneasy about leaving the resort and walking anywhere.

georgelenard,

If you would cite the "local Jah rags" that report "that there is a rouge group of criminals harboring in the west end". That would be really helpful.
Have not seen it in the Gleaner, the Observer, or RJR.

Thanks in advance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Papa Georgie

georgelenard,

If you would cite the "local Jah rags" that report "that there is a rouge group of criminals harboring in the west end". That would be really helpful.
Have not seen it in the Gleaner, the Observer, or RJR.

Thanks in advance.

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I have not seen or heard of this either Papa. I am sure the police would be interested in this information as well. And I am sure that one of the "local rags" would love to get this scoop of a news story. But they tend to only report the truth, not rumor and speculation.

Please Georgelenard, since you havent been to Negril for quite some time, perhaps you would come forward with the proof of your statement. It is terrible to misinform people. And Mr. Lenard, please refrain from basing your statement on rumors and speculation as truth is based on facts, not rumor and speculation. Truth is always presented here, I started the thread about our old neighbour friend Colin.

But please feel free to present the facts since you obviously know more than those of us who live here including the Gleaner, Observer and RJR.

Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jaherring

We are going to Catcha at the end of August. We are really feeling a little uneasy about leaving the resort and walking anywhere.

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You shouldn't feel uneasy about leaving the resort and walking anywhere. "Jamaican on Jamaican" crime is a fact of life. Since you (we) are only in Negril for a few days each year or similar, it is hard to know what goes on all year long. Perhaps there is more to the story but that won't be known for a while or maybe ever.

What I can say with some certainty is that crimes of violence against tourists are very rare. My motto is that you can't live a life while constantly looking over your shoulder and I will not avoid living my life either. I can't stay bottled up anywhere so I stay aware of my surroundings and I enjoy myself.

Catcha is a good place to stay and the management will help you avoid any problems that you should be aware of.

Have a great trip!

Peace and Guidance

georgelenard, As a fellow boardie, I urge you to contact the Gleaner, Observer and certainly the local police, I'm sure they would very much like an inside scoop on solving any crimes &/or catching any perpetrators you may have knowledge of.

Thank-you Papa Georgie I'm over him now

Lets not get snarky, and sarcastic with georgelenard.

I asked for citations because what he stated (that there is a rogue group of criminals harboring in the west end) strikes me as very serious. For a conservative tourist that might be a tipping point for not staying on the West End.

How about the Star ? Love their news. lol

Here is an interesting (I thought) academic perspective on tourism in Negril.

The Negril tourism industry: growth, challenges and future prospects
KEVON CHRISTOPHER RHINEY
Department of Geography and Geology, The University of the West Indies, Mona, Kingston 7, Jamaica

http://caribjes.com/CJESpdf/CJES%204...ineyNegril.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Papa Georgie

Here is an interesting (I thought) academic perspective on tourism in Negril.

The Negril tourism industry: growth, challenges and future prospects
KEVON CHRISTOPHER RHINEY
Department of Geography and Geology, The University of the West Indies, Mona, Kingston 7, Jamaica

http://caribjes.com/CJESpdf/CJES%204...ineyNegril.pdf

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Thanks. An interesting read.

However, this thread was about ".... there is a rouge group of criminals harboring in the west end..(and) ...then does Rob not have a obligation to inform his readers that this is a concern?.."

Using the document you linked and after boiling down the academics of it, I think the following quote from it speaks volumes"

Quote:

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As aforementioned, the majority of crimes committed against tourists in Negril (and by extension, Jamaica) have been minor offenses. In fact, the number of violent crimes committed against tourists in Jamaica is lower or comparable to that of other major destinations around the world (Bourne, 2010). Furthermore, the island has been experiencing remarkable growth in annual visitor arrivals over the past ten years, despite having one of the highest crime rates in the world (Boxill, 2004; Issa and Jayawardena, 2005).

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Does Rob have an obligation to inform? Probably not an "obligation" but he has shown a willingness to post facts when they are provided. I hardly think a statement like "there is a rouge group of criminals harboring in the west end" would rise to the order of factual and is mere speculation.

Everyone wants "facts" so I think we must give "informmas" and the police a chance to uncover them. Once there is more to post other than the http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...ssman_17272835 link, I am confident Rob will inform us.

Peace and Guidance

Pong,

Yah, the academic post was tangential. I posted to provide a context to "Negril Tourism".

Well, I don't see Rob with any "obligations". He's not a journalist. He's the moderator of an internet forum. His obligation is to make sure everyone follows the forum guidelines.

Papa.

mi live here on the West End most of the time and
don't have a clue what's with this thread and not all smooth stuff on the West End?
mi walk, bike, eat, drink, visit friends and go out sometimes till 2AM in da morning by myself on the West End.....
mi recently been out to Ivans twice.....SeaStar Inn a ton of times....
Sunset on da Cliffs.....mi hang at Pee Wees and No Limit......and many more places...
and while mi eyes are always open.....mi haven't seen any problems here......
the only problem mi having or having to adjust to.....is paying 30J's an egg.....and $1,500J's for a bottle of mi Myers Rum...lol......that's it!

Cool Runnings, Marko

We were there in June,stayed at xtabi,had zero problems and I get out,going back in jan and while I can wait for winter,I can't wait to return,ya mon! Be safe,have fun,soon come!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Papa Georgie

Pong,

Yah, the academic post was tangential. I posted to provide a context to "Negril Tourism".

Well, I don't see Rob with any "obligations". He's not a journalist. He's the moderator of an internet forum. His obligation is to make sure everyone follows the forum guidelines.

Papa.

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Amen, Papa!

We live with crime everyday in the United States....by far worse than what you're talking about in Jamaica!!! get over it, have fun but also be cautious of whats going on around you. I also can't wait to go back to my fav place in the world....

[QUOTE=suziep55;142057]We live with crime everyday in the United States....by far worse than what you're talking about in Jamaica"
NO "we" don't. Speak for yourself!

Agree with you Maryann - people's reaction to these things depends largely on where they live. If you live in an big city with security systems and bars on your windows, it's far less disturbing that for someone who lives somewhere more lowkey and safe. We live in a largely rural area outside of Ottawa and it's safe here, I know people who haven't locked their house up (even when they're away) for 50 years. I can't imagine what it's like to live in fear every day when at home, and that's the last thing I want in a vacation. Having said that, even in Ottawa lately there have been too many strange murders and shootings, seems like the whole world is going to hell...

This morning on FB there is talk of yet another shooting in Negril, supposedly this time the police shot 3 people after one other was killed. Very sad indeed. I know this stuff has been going on for a while, some argue nothing has changed. I'm not sure if it's just because there is so much more access to information (and misinformation) now than there used to be. For now, we'll continue to go to Negril, we love it. But we don't venture as far off the beaten track as many of you, and we certainly don't try to live like a local. We'll stick to properties with good security and if ever we feel unsafe we'll have to find a new happy place...

I love Negril and would do nothing to harm any portion! There was an article in one of the Island papers about the new Superintendent in Sav. a gang fighter from Kingston. I am sorry I cannot find it! Then there was a post from a person who had some sort of trouble that was deleted from the site. I questioned it but as always if there is any form of negative then it does not live long here, True or not. If I am 100% wrong my apologies but I know there is more to this then is being said! Again it is not my intentions to cast fear or blame on any one!

I'm not a coward but I do worry about my safety for my wife and my 3 small children , reading this tread makes me not want to board the plane Monday

apparently, there was another shooting last night close to the sea star lane it was the cash pot man. confirmed on facebook.

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Originally Posted by JitterBug

apparently, there was another shooting last night close to the sea star lane it was the cash pot man. confirmed on facebook.

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We're is this located and what is a pot man? And what Facebook page please

we love the west end as much as the beach, we have been staying a week at each now since 1987, there has always been Jamaican on Jamaican crime which is a shame, but the incidents of serious crimes on tourist is rare . Even though there has been a bit more robberies over the last c years there is still allot less crime than many of our towns and cities here in the US. We always feel safe in Negril and as Accompong pointed out you always got to keep your wits about you no matter where you go and don't stop living and enjoying places like Negril. We also have walked allot at night on the west end too without an incident. I'm more worried about the traffic on the west end at night than anything else. Its even going to be better when they finally get the side walk in up there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gordo923

We're is this located and what is a pot man?

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It is called Cash Pot
http://www.supremeventures.com/conte.../cash_pot.html
In Jamaica, people run unofficial games using the results on the draw. They "bank" is usually a person who collects bets and pays out of his or her own pocket.

As you might guess, they sometimes carry large amounts around.

Is there a negril FB page?

Gordo, I have been going to Negril for over 20 years without incident. My children were swimming on the reef since they were 5&7. I don't seek " Jamaican girlfriends" or trunk loads of drugs. I don't walk lanes late at night. I have more than once however had a tad too much to drink and was shuttled home by kind Jamaicans. Once after a wonderful dinner at Ivan's with wine and drinks, instead of taking the taxi home I told the gatekeeper that I wanted to walk up to Seastar. He said no. He had seen some "people not from here" on motorcycles cruising around and told me that he would transport me to Seastar for free. I listened. We decided to call it a night. The ordinary tourists are not a preferred target. I think with what you have posted that you are going to have an amazing time with your munchkins in Negril. Keep us posted

My kids are all grown now, in their 20s, and Negril addicts themselves. I started taking them to Jamaica when they were babies/toddlers. The crime wasn't near what it is now in Negril. I actually felt safe and we did a lot of exploring. If they were babies now, honestly we'd be "behind the gates" at the resort with very limited exploring or none at all, and I've gotten so I stay put at night on my solo trips. There is LOTS of crime being committed against tourists, not just locals. Please, people, lets not minimize. Maybe I feel that way because, like 2nuts, I live in a rural community. Don't own a gun, don't always lock my doors. You just can't compare crime in the entire US with crime in a small resort town in Jamaica.

A shooting near sea star lane?? Oh great, thats very close to Catcha where we are staying. I hope Ben protects us.

At the risk of fueling the fire, I would like to add my observation as a person living in Jamaica and seeing things firsthand for over 3 decades.

First of all, I have lived in several places around Jamaica; Seaview Gardens Phase II (Kingston), Billy's Bay (Treasure Beach), Port Maria, Sheffield and Accompong Town to name a few so my observations come from many different vantage points.

I love Jamaica but, in my opinion, Jamaicans can be extremely good, extremely bad and (of course) every degree in between. We like to think "our friends" are extremely good and to you they probably are but it is the extremely bad Jamaicans that make it dangerous in some areas.

When living in Kingston I saw violence on a regular basis but I had no problems while living there. There is nothing more dangerous than a youth with a gun. They have no problems using it and for no reason. It is part of the "creds" (gaining credit within a gang) and they thrive off the fear they instill on everyday people. The violence started to be exported on a wide scale some years ago when the "deportee" cars came from mainly Japan. These cars made criminals more mobile and they found that robbing a store owner in a rural area was easier and more lucrative than robbing a Jamaican in Kingston. The chance of getting caught was almost non-existent. You will notice that police stations are few and far between in rural areas and the police are not able to or willing to patrol these areas. They prefer instead sitting at the station and waiting for someone to report a crime. When they do respond to a killing or robbery, no one wants to tell them anything that will help solve the case.

Sav has two very powerful gangs who live on either side of Great George's Street with Alma being the most powerful and violent. http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2...s/news992.html . The police in Sav have a "shoot first" standing mentality and that helps scatter the problem to nearby communities, which Negril is one.

In Negril, you have concentrated money and a woefully understaffed police department which will be getting some help to fight this upsurge in crime. http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/weste...egril_13682653 Crime always follows the money.

Most of all this is transparent to the average visitor and I believe the streets are safe enough for me to traverse all over Negril. When in So. Florida, I live in an area where multiple people are getting shot every day and every night and I still walk the streets. I just don't walk them late at night or impaired enough not to know what is going on all the time. I actually feel safer in Jamaica than here.

When I am home in Accompong Town (a town of about 700 residents), I see and experience almost no crime at all at least not anything more major than a petty theft or two. I feel so secure that I do not lock my door and sleep with only a screen door protecting me from the outside world. That is what Negril used to be like and, to some visitors, it still appears and feels that way. When your money is $112J to $1US and the educational level is low while the unemployment is high, you have a recipe for criminal activity.

I can only add that I don't want to live anywhere else than Jamaica. If I don't like where I am at anytime, I move around to someplace I do like. That is why after living all over Jamaica, I have finally settled on Accompong Town.

Just my opinion.
Peace and Guidance

There is an article in the gleaner about the second shooting: http://jamaica-gleaner.com/latest/article.php?id=54616
Doesn't sound like the police have shot or apprehended anyone...

i live in Baltimore MD and people in the states know how bad this area can be , just on the last 3 days we have had 30 shootings and 5 people have died from that , so I am sadly used to crime , I am mostly concerned about my travel from Montego bay to the resort , I need to ask Rocky if they stay on the main rd or take back way , I would love to stay on the main rd , and would it be safer to travel with the resort bus or private car like rockys?

Here is another article about the shooting last night, and it conflicts slightly with the article above - from the Observer:

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...ssman-murdered

The rumors and speculation on Facebook should not be taken as fact - the Negril rumor mill is well known for being wrong most of the time. Even the two main news papers in Jamaica have differing stories.

This expected increase in crime during the Dream Week holiday for Jamaica was addressed by the police in an article in the Gleaner on July 26th, quote:

"Speaking on the readiness of the Jamaica Constabulary Force, Inspector Clevert Foster of the Negril Police Station, said the police are prepared and ready, however, one primary concern for the police is the emigration of criminals into Negril for the period of Dream Week.

"My concern is migration of criminals," Foster said. "Right now we are maintaining a constant patrol on the (Norman Manley) boulevard and we are on the lookout for people who plan to come from Kingston, Clarendon, and all over Jamaica to really capitalise on the event."

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2.../western1.html

The article further states that planning began back as far as a month ago. Lenbert Williams was also quoted as follows:

"Likewise, I know the police are geared up to tackle imported petty crimes, because it's not the typical wrongdoers in Negril that do this. You have people who come in with their armbands under the guise of partygoers; they are wolves in sheep clothing," he added."

gordo, I don't want to minimize what has happened in the West End these last few days but it is certainly not typical either. Traveling from MoBay to Negril is a safe and exciting venture. Tens of Thousands do it every year. I love Negril, and I am deeply pained by the few who are damaging the serenity & reputation of this slice of paradise. As previously stated by many, violent crime involving a tourist is extremely rare. I do not live far from you here in the Maryland and without a doubt, I feel far safer in Negril than almost anyplace inside the city of Baltimore or DC, especially at night. Go, have a great time, enjoy the beach, the music, the people, the food. Being concerned for ones safety and that of their family is at the core of who we are, but try not to let it hold you back from enjoying Negril and all it has to offer.

These things happen. None of us is exempt from serious crime in our neighborhoods, no matter how cosmopolitan or rural or developed or undeveloped they may be. Negril has had its share of it as well. Heck, a fellow Wisconsinite was doing a couple of small beach developments near Negril and was murdered, the story goes, as a result of a land dispute he was involved in. This wasn't really recent... it was in January of 2004 (I had to look it up). I'm sure the same uproar occurred back then, but it didn't stop us from going to Negril to enjoy ourselves. The crude joke then was that all we had to do was stay out of the property development business. The point was then, and is now, that these are not random acts. The victims were targeted.

When things like this DO happen in our neighborhoods, the news cameras come in to get the obligatory reaction from the folks who live nearby... "They seemed so quiet"... "I never would have suspected"... "This is so tragic"... and so on. The news vans disappear, we watch it on the news, we move on... we always move on. Maybe that says something bad about our society; and maybe it says something about our strength.

Is it acceptable that these things happen? Of course not! But in the absence of a lot of civil unrest about the whole affair, I see no reason for any of us to do anything but move on with life. Exercise the same care and caution that you would if you were at home. Don't become a victim of your own carelessness or stupidity.

Enjoy!

Georgelenard,

From the 2 references you cite, it seems to be a rather large leap to the concept of "rouge group of criminals harboring in the west end." Even in the article in the Gleaner dated the 26th before either incident and before you started this thread, with the large influx of people from all over the island during the Dream Week Emancipendence holiday, the police expected an increase in imported crime to Negril caused by those not living (or being harbored) in Negril. This would tend to discount your speculation.

As for the new Superintendent, for years now the JCF has been moving their police force from district to district. This has nothing to do with Negril or Westmoreland, it is being done island wide. Our old Super is now in St. James. The new Super does come from Kingston and gained a reputation opposing gangs as well as corruption, which would make sense after serving in Kingston.

After talking with some police friends of mine this morning, all I can say is that they are not taking this immediate situation lightly.

There have been two threads I have removed in the past 3 years that you may be referring to - one was removed at the request of one of the victims as they didnt want strangers to dissect their incident publicly here as well as feeling that some of the details were not quite accurate.

The second was removed as the source of the comment was questionable. To publicly libel potentially innocent people is not the intent of this site and I had to consider the source.

And seeing how this thread is up and active, along with two other threads on this very topic, to insinuate that negative information does not last on this Board is misleading everyone who reads it. I even started one of the threads mentioned, and I can think of nothing more negative than having to make a post like that about a friend and neighbour. It was hard to keep my emotions in check, but it was the truth and something that our visitors needed to be made aware. Many of you have met and knew Colin, may he rest in peace.

Several of the initial stories I have read on other sites have almost no correlation to what has transpired. Negril.com was created so our visitors to the island could find helpful information to have the best vacation possible and not have to sift through rumor and speculation.

I just noticed that the Gleaner has made corrections to their own story of the latest incident. The truth is often something that takes time to determine, and usually the first story you hear is far from the real truth.

We always welcome the truth here, our visitors can find out how to have the best time possible by knowing the facts. Truth is based on facts, not rumor, speculation or opinion. But your comment about "rogue group of criminals harboring in the west end" is speculation.

Even with the two terrible and unjust incidents that have occurred, the timing would suggest that this may be the imported crime during Dream Week to which the police made reference to in the Gleaner article.

This is all very troubling . As a long term visitor to negril, I am also concened about staying on the west end . I would guess some reward money offered could help to uncover the group doing this. Rob, is that something that is done in negril?
I had not visited the out of gown pastry in quite a few years . Where is the location ? What hotels are near?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by original spanky

I had not visited the out of gown pastry in quite a few years . Where is the location ? What hotels are near?

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I have never been to the "Out of Gown (sic) Pastry" but, if I had, I think I would remember the location. Just sayin... (((just a cheap joke... no hate mail please}}}

The mental image of an "Out of Gown Pastry" has me a likkle aroused! :eek: :p

Now that's funny. Good one Accompong! hahaha.

original spanky,

I also find this a bit troubling.
Thugs shooting guns from motorbikes ? Yikes !
We are due to be on the West End the end of November and I hope there is some resolution by then.
Wouldn't want to end up as "collateral" damage.

Here is the Observer story:

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...urder_17290834

R.I.P. Winzil Heron and Colin Lynch

Attachment 38331

Papa

[QUOTE=Maryann;142061]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by suziep55

We live with crime everyday in the United States....by far worse than what you're talking about in Jamaica"
NO "we" don't. Speak for yourself!

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I also live in a small town less than 5,000 population with little to no crime....my point I was trying to get across was, at anytime, anywhere you can be the victim of a crime. I've been going to Negril since 1995 and have walked from Cliffs to beach no problem, but everyone should always be aware of whats going on around them.

my point I was trying to get across was, at anytime, anywhere you can be the victim of a crime.

This might be the most often repeated meme on travel sites. And although it is strictly, theoretically true, for practical purposes isn't really true and it isn't really relevant. As a traveler, I want and need to know what the chances are that street crime might impact my vacation. Sure, you can justify the statement that "crime happens everywhere," but when I go to our beach house in the Florida panhandle I have zero concern about being accosted, mugged, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I can walk the beach or the streets as safely at 3 am as at 3 pm.

I can't do that in Negril. Doesn't mean Negril is too dangerous to visit as I certainly don't feel that's the case. On balance, I think Negril is very safe. But it isn't Seagrove Beach. And knowing that when I travel allows me to take the proper precautions. That "anytime, anywhere, you can be a victim of crime" is just an irrelevant distraction that doesn't help the traveler at all. The level of danger from potential crime is different everywhere and that's why it's a topic of discussion.