Maybe they dealt with shooters

"Confirmed: Two men shot dead by Westmoreland Police

13/08/2014 20:09:00


Two men were shot and killed in a section of Westmoreland last night. Police accused the men of taking part in a number of robberies in the parish. According to the police, sometime after 7 pm, the two accused men entered a Supreme Ventures establishment in Orange Hill, and held staff members at gunpoint, before leaving with an undetermined sum of cash. The men then reportedly stole liquor at a nearby Supermarket. Police alleged that, when the men entered the Brighton community, they engaged lawmen in a shootout, and both men were killed. Two illegal guns and several rounds of ammunition were seized. The identities of both men were not released."

After reading this I did little check on murders in negril, in the past year there has been 13 shootings in negril. Can't find any info on arrests of these incidents. We all know of the 3 recently, I know personally of 5 including the three. It might be time to rethink your plans if regard your safety. I don't know what's going on but if there was a drastic reduction in tourists something would probably be done. Fearing for your life on vacation is not acceptible. Let the messenger blasting begin.........tubes.

As I have mentioned recently, the first information that you hear may not be the most accurate. It is not so much about the messenger, but more about the source.

The above was copied directly from On The Ground News, a "Citizen Powered News service" which has the catch phrase "See it/Hear it. Spread it. Confirm It." If you sign up for an account on OGNR, you are able to create/update/edit any report - somewhat similar to how Wikipedia works. They do not consider themselves mainstream media. As they say:

IF YOU SEE IT... POST IT.
IF YOU HEAR IT... POST IT.
IF YOU HEAR OF IT... POST IT.
OTHERS WILL SEE IT.
OTHERS CAN VERIFY IT.

Take their "news" with this in mind. Who is/was the source and who confirmed it? Anyone can do either or both.

On the other hand, one of the two largest mainstream newspapers in Jamaica has a differing take on the story. Two robbers were shot and killed by police in the Parish of Westmoreland and two guns were recovered. But this is where the similarities end.

The incident took place around 7:30, not in Brighton but in Little London. The robbers went into a Supreme Venture (Cash Pot Lottery) outlet while police from Sav La Mar were already inside the location. They were shot by police after attempting to rob the outlet and no money was taken and both robbers were taken to the hospital and pronounced dead. For the entire article, the link is as follows:

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...empted-hold-up

No mention of any robbery spree was made, no mention of Orange Hill or a supermarket or Brighton. Whether these dead robbers had anything to do with the incidents in Negril two weeks ago is anybody's guess. But that would only be a guess, not anything that can be mentioned factually. It could as easily be a copycat robbery attempt gone bad. But that is also just a guess.

One thing that is a fact is that the police are not taking the recent incidents that happened 2 weeks ago lightly. Two robbers found out the hard way. And another fact is that no visitor to the island was hurt in any of the recent incidents.

Was this news in the Jamaicain Observer or Gleaner?

Scotch Bonnet Gal,

Please read my above post. The original post was from a non-mainstream source. My information about the incident comes from the Jamaica Observer, a mainstream media news service.

No mention of whether gun involved in robbery in which police shot the alleged robbers. I assume they had guns and hope they could compare the bullets from the Negril mutders and a connection would be huge.

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Originally Posted by tubes

"Confirmed: Two men shot dead by Westmoreland Police

13/08/2014 20:09:00
It might be time to rethink your plans if regard your safety. I don't know what's going on but if there was a drastic reduction in tourists something would probably be done. Fearing for your life on vacation is not acceptible. Let the messenger blasting begin.........tubes.

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I will be damned if I am going to let some idiots make me change my vacation plans....I will be careful as I am here in Toronto but no way am I going to not go to my favourite place in the world ...you want to stay home or go somewhere else.... more power to you.

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Originally Posted by ROBIN

I will be damned if I am going to let some idiots make me change my vacation plans....I will be careful as I am here in Toronto but no way am I going to not go to my favourite place in the world ...you want to stay home or go somewhere else.... more power to you.

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I agree with you Robin. I live right in the city of Chicago and wish we only had 7 shootings (we have that daily here) and still doesn't stop me from living in Chicago so it will not stop me from going to Jamaica

Robin & Rosalie, I am with you 100%. This is the same mentality that has/had people fleeing North American cities at the slightest hint of crime. I live in Philly and If I left because of a rash of shootings, I would have been gone 15 years ago. Telling visitors to stay away from Negril will do nothing but harm the good people of the town. Quite the opposite, having more people out and about will make the town safer.

I, for one, am looking forward to my trip this fall.

Vigilante press? I can't pretend to know what I don't know about the plight of the average Jamaican, but I do recognize the sense of frustration that comes when justice isn't served quickly enough to meet expectations... very similar to one famous (infamous?) Florida vigilante who said, "They always get away with it!" I also am aware of a latent distrust of the police in Jamaica, as we seem to have here in the States.

As always, let's be cautious about how we source our information, and let's not adopt only those pieces of information that reflect our personal sense of reality.

Perhaps instead of all the negativity ...we can start a positive movement and support our friends in Negril.....who by the way, have nothing to do with this situation....

Everything Rob said is true. OGNR is not a news site, but they get it right just as much as the Gleaner or Observer does. As I said before , we have spent two weeks every year ,sometime longer since 85 up by Out of Town Pastry and are booked again for this November. We have not canceled our trip. I m hopeful the police get these senseless acts under control for tourist season, more so for the residents of this community for their safety and who rely on our tourist dollars. I feel the police are doing their best to resolve these issues. I do not believe these murderers are from Negril, fore they would of been caught by now. We will keep an eye on the news that comes from negril and make our decision to visit or not closer to our departure date.
And for the Chicago debate..... Ten bucks you don't live in Englewood and wouldn't advise tourists to visit.

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Originally Posted by BostonBob

No mention of whether gun involved in robbery in which police shot the alleged robbers. I assume they had guns and hope they could compare the bullets from the Negril mutders and a connection would be huge.

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BBob,

In the link I posted to the actual news story, there are 3 references to the robbers having guns. First, "when two men entered and brandished firearms." Second, "the men opened gunfire at the officers" and last "Two .38 revolvers were reportedly retrieved after the shooting."

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Originally Posted by BostonBob

I assume they had guns and hope they could compare the bullets from the Negril mutders and a connection would be huge.

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It has only been in the last few years that forensic analysis of firearm and ballistic evidence could be processed on the island. Here is a quote from a US State Department posting.

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In 2012, the National Forensic Sciences Laboratory, with the assistance of INL-provided equipment, demonstrated a 62% increase in its ability to analyze and process ballistic evidence for the prosecution of gun crimes (firearms account for 70% of all murders in Jamaica).

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INDECOM's oversight of crime scenes and police-involved shootings has dramatically improved during that same period.

I can remember back in the day, it was a huge thing/news, if word got out that someone actually had a firearm.... For the most part, they didn't exist...

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Originally Posted by tubes

Everything Rob said is true. OGNR is not a news site, but they get it right just as much as the Gleaner or Observer does. As I said before , we have spent two weeks every year ,sometime longer since 85 up by Out of Town Pastry and are booked again for this November. We have not canceled our trip. I m hopeful the police get these senseless acts under control for tourist season, more so for the residents of this community for their safety and who rely on our tourist dollars. I feel the police are doing their best to resolve these issues. I do not believe these murderers are from Negril, fore they would of been caught by now. We will keep an eye on the news that comes from negril and make our decision to visit or not closer to our departure date.
And for the Chicago debate..... Ten bucks you don't live in Englewood and wouldn't advise tourists to visit.

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Your right I don't live in Englewood so r you saying Negril is as bad as Englewood??? No where near it. There are more muggings and shootings in good areas of Chicago than in the whole country of Jamaica

Sorry Rosalie. Not buying it......jamaica has the sixth highest murder rate in the world.....Mexico not even on the list and we all know Mexican murder rate is extremely high. Get your facts before spouting jibberish. I am sure you love jamaica as much as any of us, but to put on rose colored glasses is naive.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...de---UN-report

I live near Englewood. I am not moving from the area because of Englewood. I will not stop going to Negril because of the crime. :)

tubes, I looked through the actual report referenced in the article you linked, and on 2 charts of the most recent data 2012 reported both the number of intentional homicides and the rate have declined since increases in the mid-2000 years, and are at their lowest since 2004 Jamaica / 2005 Kingston. (p.125 Jamaica, p.146 Kingston)

Lola......true, murder rate is down approximately 8% from last years 1200 plus. And yes being ranked sixth this year on worldwide list is impressive considering it was number one a mere decade ago.
Still, violent crime spilling onto main street negril is saddening and worrisome.
Most of us here are seasoned travelers that know what we are in for, petty crimes are normal for tourist towns. But when violent crimes happen where visitors frequent, visitors stop coming.
I am not on island and not aware of what is being done to stop this. It's sad to think that one of us has to be whacked for things to change. I feel for the residents more than my stupid vacation. I can go anywhere I want , they can't.
This is my last post. I will deflect my opinions towards the entities such as JTB, negril chamber of commerce and any other institution that will listen.
If there is any way I can help I will, all advice from any of you will be welcomed.
Peace, tubes

Thanks Accompong. Interesting perspective as usual my friend.

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Originally Posted by tubes

Sorry Rosalie. Not buying it......jamaica has the sixth highest murder rate in the world.....Mexico not even on the list and we all know Mexican murder rate is extremely high. Get your facts before spouting jibberish. I am sure you love jamaica as much as any of us, but to put on rose colored glasses is naive.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...de---UN-report

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Tubes put your reading glass's on I did not say murders I said muggings and shootings. Shootings are a daily event here like fire crackers. I am far from naive about the possibility of crime happening any where.

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Originally Posted by Mike_D

Robin & Rosalie, I am with you 100%. This is the same mentality that has/had people fleeing North American cities at the slightest hint of crime. I live in Philly and If I left because of a rash of shootings, I would have been gone 15 years ago. Telling visitors to stay away from Negril will do nothing but harm the good people of the town. Quite the opposite, having more people out and about will make the town safer.

I, for one, am looking forward to my trip this fall.

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I so agree Like you Mike, I grew up in Philly, now live in a small town 15 minutes from AC. Between the two, I'd be locked in the house all the time. Maybe for us
it's not such a big deal because we live with it. I could see how the fear could build in someone not used to it and hearing about it via websites and travel agents.

I may be a little more aware when I'm out, but I'm not going to let some creeps keep me away from a place I love and will not keep me from going to all the places we love to frequent. I still love Negril and think there is no where like it, and we've tried other islands. Hurry up November :)

Hi Rob. Thanks for the great Board and for helping me to read . I missed a lot. I will read more carefuly . Too early or something.... Thanks again my friend .

Tubes, perhaps the real problem is, your view is culturally impotent. These crimes where not perpetrated on tourists, all your stats mean squat. You simple have no idea what going on in Jamaica. You aren't there. If you believe the "news",whatever the source, you sure are a sheep. Disregard all previous notions and begin to think, staring Now.

Thanks country, had a good chuckle over your response. Hope we can meet up someday.

I know this is a moot point, but this question could be easily answered in the US, unless these gunmen have access to several different weapons and change up. If bullets could have been recovered from the previous crimes (even in autopsy) and then they test fired the seized weapons, they could compare the bullet patterns and then could tell if these same weapons were used in previous crimes. I do not know if Jamaica has this level of forensic science yet. They could actually link these two to any previous incidents which would give the families some closure and bring some peace of mind to the community....however.... get two bad guys, 4 will usually replace them.

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Originally Posted by ROBIN

I will be damned if I am going to let some idiots make me change my vacation plans....I will be careful as I am here in Toronto but no way am I going to not go to my favourite place in the world ...you want to stay home or go somewhere else.... more power to you.

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What grieves me is my friends with a lovely acre overlooking both the ocean and the great morass now do not want to build here, move here , or retire here out of fear.

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Originally Posted by Misti1

What grieves me is my friends with a lovely acre overlooking both the ocean and the great morass now do not want to build here, move here , or retire here out of fear.

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My advice to them? Sell the property. If you are fearful, stay home and no one will blame you. Jamaica living and not visiting like a tourist is not for everyone and it noh easy. When you show your money by buying prime land, building a new house and don't work then you will stand out. It takes less than $9000 US to be a millionaire in Jamaica. Just how many Jamaicans are millionaires compared to the majority of tourists?

No disrespect meant but life is one big reality check.

Peace and Guidance

I agree with Accompong.

We had a nice piece of property up in Mandeville. There were plans of a retirement residence being built there to stay for much of the year there but it would not be worth it. Gave up on the idea and the property was given to relatives still living in Jamaica. We would have to watch our backs when living there and when left vacant for part of the year there would be concers of break-ins and people who would want to squat on the property. We would have to hire security to watch the place 24/7. Too much of a worry in the end!

Tubes, made me chuckle too. I'll be in Negril most of Feb. Let's link up. If your still willing to Risk it;)

From my experience....those that make the move successfully, make the move not just geographically but mentally as well.