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Have friends just returned from swept away . They were there from June 28 thru July 6. I made a point to ensure they spent time away . Visit the cliff side walk the beach etc. they did get to Catcha one evening for the 100 candle deal and enjoyed it. The hotel cautioned them to stay on property though saying there had been a shooting within the last few days. Anyone heAr if this was true ?
Thank you
Theres been a few murders in Westmoreland as of late, but I personally haven't heard of one in Negril, at least not in that time frame. Of course, I could easily be mistaken
The big AI's have a vested interest in keeping you on site. Even Hedo used to that back in the day. Tell you something happened and make it sound to scary to go out or if you do leave convince you to use "their" driver for $20 per person for a trip to the craft market.
Catcha isn't an AI, however, and wold seemingly have no vested interest in keeping someone dining there "on property" beyond the duration of their meal. The fact that Westmoreland has had a rash of crime recently isn';t exactly a well-kept secret
I read it as the hotel they were staying at cautioned them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troublemaker_420
We were there July 1 - 11, heard nothing about any shootings.
I've seen this comment several times and I don't understand it.....if you pay in advance for meals and drinks, what is the vested interest that the AI have to keep guests on property?Quote:
Originally Posted by noproblem
They have a vested interest for a few reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamerican71
1. They charge double for a taxi.
2. They charge more for excursions they organize.
3. Guests find out that there's more to Jamaica/Negril than the pool, and the buffet and choose to stay at a different place else next time (That's what I did)
4. Keeping guests safe. They have no control over what happens to guests who exit their property. If something bad happens, then it they still get the bad pub. (probably the least of their concern out of the things listed)
Your logic is correct, there is no real direct monetary vested interest in keeping their guests on the property. It comes down to more of a legal liability issue. If a guest gets hurt on or off the property, there is a strong chance they will be sued. To keep their insurance liability rates down, it is in their best interest in trying to "oversee" as much of their guests' stay as possible. This is why they recommend staying on the property.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamerican71
This is also why they offer their own tour packages using their own drivers to attractions that they feel meet all their requirements.
When a guest leaves the property on their own, they are usually warned that if something occurs it is not their responsibility. But that doesnt prevent that guest from suing them if an incident happens off the property. Although the guest loses the lawsuit since they did leave the property on their own, the AI's have "deep pockets" and lawyers know this, which is why the AI's do what they do.
Ohhhhhhhhhh!!!!! That makes total sense...now :)
I also think swept away just put the worry in them so they would stay there and not venture off
We have stayed at many different resorts in Negril and have never been told that it was dangerous to leave the resort. We have never heard of any other person being advised not to leave the resort. Taxi drivers have an arrangement with most resorts, in particular with the larger resorts, that allow them to park on or near the resort and pick up and drop off guests on the property. The initial fee seems to be about $3000US at the larger resorts plus a monthly fee.One can understand the higher taxi fares. But the tourist is getting a reputable taxi and driver. Many resort tour desks are operated as a concession with either a similar initial fee or an initial fee and a percentage. Of course, some resorts may operate their own tour desk. The resort makes money with this arrangement, but aside from this the resort offers a known quantity to their guests plus the convenience that the guests have in arranging the tour on the resort property. An employee of the resort may imply that a guest should be afraid to leave the resort, but I don't think that any supervisor or manager would ever do that. Jamaican resorts have very little to fear in regard to lawsuits. I don't think that a resort has any responsibility at all when a guest leaves the resort on his own. If the person leaves on a tour booked at the resort, then they might have a case if something happened. In fact, no tourist is going to have much success in the Jamaican court system. Very few tourists would want to make the return trips to the island even if they wanted to go to the trouble of engaging a local lawyer and the suits can drag on for years and years. I have followed some rather serious lawsuits that were filed in the US against Jamaican resorts and their agents. One involved a woman that was partially paralyzed. None of the suits were successful. They were thrown out on procedural and jurisdictional grounds. Many resorts have a tangle of various entities and layers of ownership. Jamaican resorts have very little to fear as far a being sued.
Roundiconer,
On the contrary, the large AIs do have a fear of being sued. The large AIs have very expensive liability insurance premiums every year to protect their business from these possible lawsuits. That being said, losing is another thing. They have very little if any risk of losing unless the issue happened on their property or one of their official organized tours. That is why they have to charge more for their tours. Their insurance rates are higher for that coverage. As I stated in my previous post, if someone leaves the property, then they have little chance of winning, but that does not prevent their lawyers for suing the AI because of their "deep pockets". These lawsuits cost the AIs money and reputation, so they do want to limit their exposure. it is simple common sense business.
There are signs at several AIs right on the edge of their property that states to the effect that "if you pass this sign, you are no longer on ##### property. Do so at your own risk." If you walk the beach, you will see them...
"There are signs at several AIs right on the edge of their property that states to the effect that "if you pass this sign, you are no longer on ##### property. Do so at your own risk." If you walk the beach, you will see them..."
Grand Pineapple has one ~
A properly licensed tour operator from within the resort or from outside the resort should have appropriate insurance at about the same cost to the operator for that specific activity. If you use someone's cousin to take you on a tour, you get what you pay for-I have in fact sometimes gotten much more than I might have paid for otherwise. I personally would not expect to collect very easily from any tour operator in Jamaica for a mishap. If the operator is licensed by the Jamaican Tourist Board you might have some recourse in case of a grievance. The signs where they do exist remind me of the various signs that state "Not Responsible for Checked Coats" or the ones that state "You Ride this Roller Coaster at Your Own Risk". These signs are meaningless in the case of owner negligence. There have been some murders recently in Westmoreland. Let us hope that none of us get caught in the crossfire. Usually these things happen away from tourists. It was sometime ago that an American was caught in the crossfire and killed in Sav.
The large AIs do not want you to leave th resort because they want you to shop for souvenirs in their shops and not go elsewhere. They want to sell you their overpriced rum instead of going to the local supermarket where you will pay 40% to 50% less.
We have sat in at the so called orientations at swept away and they put the fear of G-d in you. I am not know king swept away cause we love the place but I always have assumed if they do it so do the other a/I s
About 12 years ago I stayed at the Sunset Jamaica Grand in Ochi and sat through a similar orientation. Afterwards, they directed us to their tour desk and encouraged us to sign up for group toursQuote:
Originally Posted by original spanky
1st let me say no disrespect meant Rob but this sounds like the hearsay type stories that you often warn us about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Hearsay, innuendo and "lawyer speak". When someone jumps onto a discussion board and their first three posts sound like a lawyer well, a lawsuit can't be too far behind. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Homebrewer
When you watch TV and see ambulance chasers after ambulance chasers you get a likkle paranoid I guess!
Just a joke. (but how I see it)
Peace and Guidance
I dont own a large AI, but that doesnt mean I havent learned how they operate over the years. I know and have talked with virtually all the AI managers or owners in Negril at one time or another in the past 20+ years of living here. Some have been on the board of directors of Negril.com in the past, and some I see on nearly a daily basis. I do have a somewhat intimate knowledge of how they conduct business.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homebrewer
This topic does often come up in our conversations. This is how I know this information. It is common knowledge to those in the AI business. Heck, even roundiconer mentioned that they were following several lawsuits, so lawsuits can and do occur even if they very little chance of winning should the incident occur off the property or not on an authourized tour.
But the AIs still have to absorb the costs of getting the lawsuit dismissed by using that portion of their liability insurance coverage that covers lawyer and court fees. That is why they dont want to be sued for an incident that happened off their property, it will raise their rates for something they didnt cause. If the incident happens on the property or an authourized tour, that is when the liability insurance directly kicks in and the injured party is compensated. The AI will see a rate increase for that as well because it happened on the property and should/could have been prevented.
Liability insurance is one of the annual expenses that the large AIs must pay to stay in business. The Jamaica Tourist Board requires they carry it just as they do for all licensed and legal hotels, resorts, rentals and tours operators, etc. But the AIs carry much higher coverage limits than the average tourism related business as they have much more exposure being much larger properties (deep pockets). Without this liability coverage, they would not be allowed to conduct business nor would any of the other businesses mentioned. Once again, this common knowledge to those in the business.
The question posted earlier is a great one. Since the guests have already paid in advance for food and drinks, logic does dictate that each meal and drink that their guests would buy off property would save the AI money. Business being business, why would an AI encourage their guests to not buy drinks and meals off the property when it would be in their interest to do so as was asked earlier?
The reason would have to be cost effective enough to offset any savings from the guests buying meals and drinks off the property. And the main reason is the legal liability issues and the high cost of the insurance coverage associated with it. By overseeing all aspects of their guests stay, they minimize the chance of being sued for something they didnt do which would lead to higher insurance rates.
Rob, thanks for such a thorough explanation. I mean no disrespect, but how would an insurance company, in setting rates, know how many guests leave the property or how the insurance company would know how the resort discouraged guests from leaving the property? I have followed a few of the lawsuits brought against Jamaican resorts-there are not very many-and even in the most egregious cases involving an on property mishap, the guest did not even get to trial. Such lawsuits are seldom filed and then are seldom lost. When you look around Jamaican resorts, you can only be amazed at the hazards that would never be tolerated by an American insurance company that insures hotels and resorts. Without revealing my occupation and my familiarity with some of the AIs, I will just say that I am familiar with this subject. Resorts around the world do pay high premiums for liability insurance but not for the reasons that you state. Two incidents come to mind where two lives were lost involving a Negril resort. One was on property and one off property. The resort in both cases did not pay a cent in damages or legal fees.A guest at one resort was raped by an employee of the adjoining resort. Nothing was ever done about it even though the rapist was almost immediately identified. Overseas visitors that have an issue with a Jamaican resort only have a chance in a lawsuit if they sue the provider of the travel in their home country. Even then, the task would be very difficult due to the difficulty in getting evidence, taking depositions, subpoenas etc. Even those with really "deep pockets" such as John Issa had little success suing Butch Stewart in a US court. Not a personal injury case but illustrates the point. Now none of this really matters to us as fun seekers and I don't think that many on this board are deterred from leaving a resort and I doubt that any of us will ever sue a Jamaican resort. Let us reason in good humor! Peace and Guidance for sure.( This subject reminds me of a story regarding limits of liability. A friend of mine who is the GM of a resort told me about a newly arrived guest who demanded that the resort refund her the cost of a bag of ganja that she had purchased in the parking lot as she arrived. She said the ganja was of poor quality and since she purchased it on resort property that the GM should give her a refund. He declined!)
roundiconer,
As I am sure you know, insurance companies have actuaries that determine the average, or likelihood of guests leaving the property based on statistics. This allows them to set the standard rates. They can and sometimes do attend the "orientation" meetings to hear what is said and make note of signs on the property and cards left in the rooms. This may influence the final rate.
If the AI needs to use the coverage, as we all know, their rate charged will go up.
I used to work for insurance companies before I began selling them computers and rating software. I got to know the actuaries quite well. But that was in a different life.
For those that don't know , John Issa and Butch Stewart would both be considered "deep pockets". And in the cases you mention, the AIs had to pay their own legal fees. I have never heard of an AI lawyer working for free...
I think we both heard that same ganja story. People will try to sue for anything!
been here since May and all is quiet and laid back here as usual in Negril....
and mi have been out to the wee hours of da morning solo too on da West End......ha ha
Cool Runnings, Marko
unfortunately there was an incident last night when a local man was shot and killed....
happened at his residence at the start of Pee Wee Lane aka Ellla Drive........
thugs apparently did this late last night when many of us were getting to retire for the night...
being next door to this crime mi have an unsettled feeling about this......
it was a robbery/murder drug related however wi are in good hands with the local law enforcement here.......
Cool Runnings, Marko
Who was killed? That area is and has been sketchy as long as I have been coming to the west end. I stay right nearby there...
Link didn't work for me. Try this one. http://iriefm.net/businessman-killed-in-negril/Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricia
Rob, asking your opinion . Has there always been the violence and guns in Negril thru the years and it just gets publicized more with social media or are things getting much worse?
Original Spanky,
Well, this is rather a loaded question, pardon the pun. Since there are more guns on the planet than at anytime in human history, it would be logical that there are more guns everywhere.
As for gun violence in Negril, in my 25 years or so of living here it seems to be no better or worse than it ever has been. Historically 1980 was the worst year for gun issues island wide due to the US-USSR Cold War. Both countries were supplying firearms to Jamaica. Some of those are still in use so there are still repercussions being felt from the long over Cold War. A Gleaner editorial has even suggested that “U.S. gun manufacturers ought to share some of the responsibility for the mayhem being created in Jamaica.”
With the Internet, nothing can be hidden. Cameras on smartphones can produce instant "news". But the darker side of the Internet and more so with the "social media" aspect of the Internet, information, true or false, is transmitted at the speed of light. As do virtually all important events here, the shooting that Marko mentioned happening next door to where he stays has inundated my email. I have received emails where people have read posts with the wrong lane, wrong person, wrong number of people verging on the point of wild speculation.
The "Negril Rumor Mill" is quite active and needs no help. But with the added confusion and misinformation that social media provides it just expands that rumor mill to the point of absurdity. It can take a single event (or even a non-event), change (or invent) the details and make it seem like multiple events in minutes. If it wasnt so serious, it would be funny. But the humor is quickly lost when wrong places are mentioned and wrong people are implied.
When Kubba Pringle had his massive stroke and was in intensive care at the hospital, he was "declared" dead weeks before he actually passed. The social media was so strong that even one Jamaican news company declared him dead days before he died. I truly wished that some people would remember that there are other lives that are influenced when they make irresponsible posts. How would they feel if it happened to them?
That is why we try our best at Negril.com to get the facts and to stick to the facts. Anything can be speculated about, such as why people would post misleading information in the first place. Is it because they are mean and doing it for a twisted kind of fun, ill-informed and just dont know not to post wrong info or is it just a way to make themselves feel important, a "look at me, I posted it first" mentality? We can speculate all day, but in the end there is no point in doing so. It gives no one any helpful, useful information to make their stay in Negril the best possible!