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folks.....LISTEN to Rob...!!..
'twas JUST this morning
in the chat-room
when I asked him '..when..''
Rob told me that election was SOON [[[ with emphasis ]].
and Low & Behold ..!!!
my honey-bunch Portia JUST announced:::>>> Jamaican Election Day IS February 25th
* sigh *
gonna *add* a likkle something-something( ?? ) to my up-coming trip
* sigh *
oh well
silly season is upon di island na tru
ha ha.....mi here and nuthin been said on da news here......lol.....nobody talkie about it either.....and so it goes
Cool Runnings, Marko
Silly is OK with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by smith744
I was there for the election of 1980..........now THAT WAS AN ELECTION TO REMEMBER!
...nothin' silly about it
Cap
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind & Linston
That was back when Reagan and Gorbachev were battling out the Cold War and that Wall had not fallen yet, the times they have been changing...
I'm actually looking forward to being home for elections!
Cap
I and I were there in Treasure Beach for the 2012 election when Miss P got in and will be in Negril for this one - the island was electric! Felt bad for a guy that worked at the rented house - as soon as he heard the celebratory horns he knew he lost his other job. Just need to be careful with the colors of my shirts...
I was in Negril for the 2012 election and it was intense! Good vibes for the most part.
Michael Manley has long departed this world and Uncle Eddy is out of the game long time. No problem!
We were there in '12 around election time. I didn't think things were crazy at all.
Nothing but khaki or blue in my wardrobe .....Not an orange or green to be found!Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinson
Cap
Attachment 44254Attachment 44255
1980 was bad times, JA was bashed internationally by the media, US gov didn't want USD being spent by tourists so every day bad press for JA.
CIA on the right a me, Fidello on me left. Graffiti everywhere " Vote Socialism in dis I-Lection" JLP, PNP, CIAGA, gunfire everywhere, pow, pow, pow!! Lucky for me I made it out alive. Stood twenty feet from Mikey Dread Manley by the roundabout in Negril the day before the election where him have a likkle political rally. I was one of about 5 white tourists in town everybody else stayed away. I had my camera. I was really foolish to put myself in such close proximity to a very very high degree of danger. Mikey look at me and view me suspiciously, who be dat mon??? Roots playin on the Sound System to stay dem nerve in control, heavy manners
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.me LIKE, johng
..history
:-)
.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfwaytree
'''.No problem..'' eh
so,
the *garrisons* are gone, too.....???..
I'd like to have a beer with you someday johng.
Hi Smitty, yes mon history tell da story. Many reasonings fi Jamaica the way it is today. Garrisons gone??? Guns gone???
TAH, probably end up being lot's a beers. HAHAHA!!!
Everyone knows that elections in the distant past have been wrought with violence but you do Jamaica a disservice to characterize the more more recent elections as being violent. You can talk Seaga, Manley etc. election years as somehow a precursor of new elections but recent history would tell you that is a false comparison.
Are there still "garrisons"? Yes, but not like the Tivoli Gardens, Trench Town, etc. of the past. In fact, referring to them as "garrisons" in the military sense would again be a misinterpretation of them today. They are still politically loyal to one party or the other but describing them as armed encampments is stretching a problem into a pandemic. "Guns"? Yes, too many. Just like in the United States and senseless killing is way too much.
If this election is anything like the last election, the Jamaican Election will be no more violent than the US Elections per capita.
Peace and Guidance
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Accompong
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Thanks, boardie-Accompong
when i'm next on the island,
and I hear a Jamaican refer to those communities as a '''..garrison..''
I'll make it a point to tell 'em that they're ''..misinterpreting...'' things.
when next i'm listening to those Jamaican radio talk-shows, on Power106-FM
and the host(s), commenators, etc refer to the communities as garrisons,
i'll dial my phone, ,,, call in,,,, and tell them they shouldn't be saying that
when one of dem Ja-politicians dew-wheat, will correct dem too
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..
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self-SAY::>>>>""".Bill, don't do that..'''
me-SAY::>>> """..Huh..??..''''
self-SAY::>>>>"""... DON'T do that..!!!....'''
me-SAY::>>> """..but, but but, but he said...........'''
self-SAY::>>> """..I don't care... don't do it..''''
me-SULK
:-(
Accompong,
You seem to be educated about Jamaican history. Read about the domination of the Caribbean in the 50's -present. Haiti, DR, Cuba, Jamaica, Grenada, etc... Same story different country. Who was Seaga's bodyguard??? What did he do?? How did guns end up in Jamaica (Carib basin). Hopefully no voilence in this I-Lection. Guns yes too many??? Used to be life in Gun Court!!! Even for a bullet!!! Anyway you want to paint it JA way more voilent regardless of I-lections.
Johng, I have read many of the references you cited but maybe not all as you seem to have done. I know a little bit about Jamaican History and I guess it would be your judgement as to whether I am “educated” about it or not. What happened in Jamaica leading up to the Golding-Dudus fiasco in West Kingston has (in my opinion) little bearing on how things are politically in Jamaica today. Those earlier times is where “garrison” became a popular term to describe armed encampments owing allegiance to a Don who often worked with the Member of Parliament whose constituency elected him or her.
Terms like “voilent” (sic) or “I-lections” may be how a Jamaican or Rastafarian talks but most tourists have not had the pleasure of living in one of those “garrisons” you are talking about. I did for a time but I don’t claim to be “educated” on how they were before I lived there. I just know in the last election there was virtually no violence at least no gun violence to speak of.
I liken a word like “garrison” to be descriptive of how things were and not so much how things are. Yes, there are still Dons in control in some areas and they, of course, have some amount of weapons and ammunition but not up to a level that would today be called a “garrison”. Again, in my opinion.
Like the word “militia” here in the US. When a bunch of malcontents take up arms and call themselves a militia that doesn’t fit the definition of what a militia was and what it was intended to be.
You and smith744 are certainly entitled to your opinion and I hope you both take the time to do a little more in-depth research on the past two elections as to the level of violence experienced by the electorate. I believe that is a better prognosticator of future elections than dusting off names like “Seaga”, “Manley”, etc. and predicting the future from them.
Smith744, I would have answered your post separately but I find the amount of cutting of gibberish to make something coherent was simply too tiring. {sigh}
Peace and Guidance
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Accompong
that's ok
..i wasn't expecting (nor desire-ous of) an ''..answer..'' ( ?? )
i have found resting
is good
when one is ''..tired..''
take care of your-self
don't let this message board tire you out.
i know that of which you doth speak-eth
....many many-times
some things i read here makes my likkle likkle pea-brain hurt bad
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hey, Mr. DJ..!! ...... spin a tune
.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt9L2rvgTwE
Saw a well managed parade of people wearing orange in Treasure Beach yesterday. It's democracy in action and we should all be glad to have freedom to do that.
Accompong, seems we are talking oranges and apples here the past elections I know very little about except many blamed Dudus for losing the 2011 Election to Portia Simpson-Miller and Bruce Golding was finally kicked out when after initially refusing to give up Dudus was forced to change his mind. Do you really not think that Dudus isn't in many ways still running things from a foreign. You are right my knowledge of Jamaican politics since Dudus has left is minimal. My point was that it was during the Seaga Manley wars that Jamaica escalated to todays situation of violence and murder on the island. And anybody with a brain knows who and how they did it. That's my point. I pray for peace not war. I love all Jamaicans and truely hope that the elections are quiet and peaceful but it more than obvious there are more violent activities island wide since 1980. That's my point. Dis ano likkle joke business.
Johng,
Having been here for the past 5 elections and this upcoming election number 6 on the 25th, I think I have a little first hand perspective on the situation that may clear things up a bit.
I was here for the '93, '97 and 2002 elections where the PNP retained their seats and PJ Patterson was the Prime Minister (for us American folks, you dont vote for Prime Minister, the PM is from the party that won the most seats in the general election). PJ Patterson resigned for his own reasons, and and this allowed Portia Simpson-Miller to become the first female PM. In 2007, after the PNP being in power for the previous 18 years, the JLP won the majority of seats and Bruce Golding became the Prime Minister.
Please note that in all of the elections above, you will not find any news stories of any serious election related violence, even as the party in power for 18 years (PNP) turned the reigns over to their opposition (JLP). The transition was as peaceful as any in North America.
During the JLP controlled Parliament, the US asked for the extradition of the "Don" of Tivoli Gardens, Dudas. This was not during any election time and this unrelated Dudas affair was the eventual cause of Bruce Golding resigning for not handling the US extradition of Dudas in an efficient manner. Many were killed (numbers vary widely) in Tivoli Gardens which was the last of the "old style" garrison communities that have been spoken about in this thread. While some places are still referred to as "garrisons", they no longer resemble those of the past as in 1980. People from 1980 would not recognize Tivoli today. With the US monitoring of Dudas, there is no way he is running things from his prison cell in the US. We have driven through Tivoli Gardens and it is a different place than it was in the "garrison" days.
We have first hand experience of how the island handled the situation as the exact moment the government went after Dudas in Tivoli, we were at a roadside bar in MoBay on our way to Port Antonio. While we sensed an underlying anxiousness wherever we stopped (and we stopped a lot), when we entered the establishment, the radios and TVs were turned off for our benefit since we were perceived to be on vacation. When we mentioned we lived here, the radios and TVs would come back on and the conversations would become mostly one of sadness for what was transpiring. Soon the sadness would change to determined talk of not allowing any unrest to occur in their area. We had some very interesting conversations. We ended up having a safe, easy journey and noticed no unusual activity at all in any of the many cities we passed through on the North Coast.
Long after this situation was over, due to growing complaints about Bruce Golding's handling of the Dudas situation, Bruce Golding chose to resign and Andrew Holness became the new PM. Oddly enough we were in Kingston when this occurred. In a government office, the day we got there Golding was still PM and his picture was on the wall. When we went back to the same office a couple days later, his picture was gone and you could see the outline of where it was hanging.
In 2011, due to many reasons including the new and disliked IMF loan that the JLP arranged, and also because of the Dudas/Golding affair and Andrew Holness' relative inexperience as PM, the parties once again changed positions. The PNP became the ruling party with Portia Simpson-Miller becoming the first female Prime Minister by way of the election victory of her party. Once again, this transition took place as peacefully as any in North America.
During the last election, when Andrew Holness was driving his motorcade through Red Ground, we were watching from the Red Dragon and there were people wearing the JLP "green" showing their support, some folks in the PNP "orange" obviously not showing support, and yet some wearing both green and orange showing how much these old symbols of the past have decreased in any real meaning. There was cheering and waving by everyone - horns being heard and smiles all around. People saw the Prime Minister in their community, the party mattered little.
Times do change and Jamaica is changing with it.
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
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clap
clap
clap
some-how
we should start a campaign
to nominate Rob
as a 2016 Hero's Day honoree
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OK Rob,
Let me try and say this one more time. I am very hopeful that the Jamaican elections are crime free, just as I have wished every previous one. As a traveler to JA since 75 and many times since I try and stay up on the happenings there. My point, since the 76 and 80 Elections guns and violence has increased dramatically ( I do no think comparisons to other countries in those categories have any meaning) we are talking Jamaica. During those years for political reasons which perhaps are too sensitive to discuss both the PNP and the JLP resorted to warfare in their campaigns. Do I endorse that? Of course not. But political instability is a method used, especially in the Carib and Central & South America to get certain ducks in a row. Manley is lucky he didn't end up like Maurice Bishop did a couple years later. Without using the alphabet soup initials of the agencies involved you know who was holding the puppet strings. As a member of the Negril Community you have seen the increase in gun violence for a long time. In the 70's in Negril theives stole wallets and cameras, there was ganja smuggling, a rare rape and once in a great while a murder. So in summary yes elections in the past 5 years have been crime free but since 76 and 80 the crime rate due to guns has skyrocketed. That's all I'm saying.
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an observation
I was down there
during the past 3 elections
had *heard* the stories about election violence
......but, in & around Negril (and Lucea), everything was irie
tru tru was a likkle back & forth verbal battles,
but nothing serious
and with the last election
when my sweetie-pie Portia won
it was as peaceful as any election here in WasingtonDC
an aside:::>>> and off topic:::>>> with those 3 elections, I was sadly surprised to see how many folks didn't vote
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
terrible turnout
low participation
yet,
always a lot of complaining 'bout this & that with the government
so,
on-island (( and here in USofA ))
when-ever i hear chat 'bout government this or government that
mi-SAY:::>>> '''... did you vote...??..'''
so,
all of you's going down this month,
tell all your Ja-*friends* ::::>>> Go Vote..!!..
[[[ sermon done ]]]
Seems appropriate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtTFKotGWew
.Quote:
Originally Posted by TAH
yep
VERY-much so
:-).
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and NOT just in Jamaica
Johng,
The Jamaican election statistics do not support your speculations. The election violence has gone down since '76 and '80, which is now some 40 years ago.
Comparing Jamaica to Haiti is also an "apples to oranges" thing. Papa Doc and Baby Doc have no similarities to the Jamaican process at all. There is nothing like the "Tontons Macoutes" here, and to make any comparison between that nonsense and current day Jamaica is unfair to anyone reading this forum.
Please feel free to pray, there is nothing at all wrong with that. But to compare 2015 to the 1970's and 1980 is once again, apples to oranges.
Take care man.
I don't think Jong is talking about election violence. I think what he is trying to say is since those violent elections happened violent crimes overall have increased, not violence during election times. That's how I read it anyways
Irieonline...Johng does mention violence during the election in his above quote and I personally thought johng meant during and after an election.Quote:
Originally Posted by johng
I thought his last reply in particular was pretty clear, that he was speaking about guns and gun violence in general since the '80 elections.
Doesn't anyone care about the lowest price for Red Stripe on the beach/cliffs anymore? Will the next Prime Minister make that price go up; or down?
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_frank
.
lol
lol
lol
of course not
...globally the economy is boooom-ing
.......*we* all rich now
lol
lol
lol
btw ~~ you shouda left that/those comments you deleted [[ wink wink ]]
..'member you retired .. no need to edit anymore
:-)
It was't Papa Doc or Bady Doc Supoorted at first by the US of A, Kingston run buy the CIA and Cuba that where the guns come from. Only Ja elections that I understand were not effected by election violence were 2011. How many were killing in Kingston on May 2010 that was quite a show don't you agree Rob. Didn't happen in Negril thank God
You right Bill; my bad.
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Big_frank
TAH and Irieonline,
With the title being "oh oh ::: Ja-Election .... Feb 25th", for any reader, especially first time visitors, it is clear that the election is the topic being discussed. Although thousands of readers are multi visitors to Negril, I must keep in mind that first timers are reading this forum daily and the facts need to be presented in a way that makes sense to the subject/title of any thread. As of 11:30pm on this Thursday night, there are 50 members and 392 guests, many of whom are first timers.
There will be no difference for any visitor coming to the island during the upcoming election than on any other day. In fact, they will become part of the Jamaican history and be able to relate their experiences to future readers.
I am pleased that Johng agreed that the the last election was crime free. That was part of the point of my first post as related to the subject of this thread. Since the thread started to veer off topic, my further post were made to clarify and add some direct first hand insight into the now off topic subject.
I live here and the realities are in my face everyday. There is no way to avoid it being a member of the society. We can debate for years the history, causes, alphabet entities and the rest but that is beyond the focus of this tourism related website. With this post, I want to bring this thread back to the original topic.
I, for one, am looking forward to another election, they have become a fun discussion based time to be on the island.
Quite a show? I found it not a show but a very horrific thing. We lived those days on the island seeing and listening to the hurt and sadness the Jamaican people were going through. This is exactly why this will not be debated on this tourism focused site.Quote:
Originally Posted by johng
Rob, wrong word to use, my bad!! Have I ever on this board advocated violence to anyone??? Jamaica is probably my favorite place on earth. understood that your site is tourist site and your job is to advertise the beauty and wonders of Negril and Jamaica in whole. the conversation strayed from elections and before I brought my comments in to the discussion someone else brought up the 80 elections. have been part of that history I added photos of Michael Manley taken in Negril (pertinent I believe to the oh oh Ja Election conversations at the time). As your job on this site to promote Negril and Jamaica to "Newbies" there is a certain responsibility that you bear in telling certain realities that exist in Negril and the rest of the island. If you read the Gleaner and or Observer on a daily basis you can see the points I have made are valid. Should they be discussed on the site??? That's your call?? I am not attempting to hurt Jamaica or it's economy only add to discussions (that I did not start). Do I still visit JA?? Yes!! West Kingston?? No