considering recent event, I thought this interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...f93_story.html
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considering recent event, I thought this interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...f93_story.html
And more interesting articles in the local news:
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/l...rights-flag-us
http://jamaica-star.com/article/news...s-rainbow-flag
http://jamaica-star.com/article/ente...ikely-ja-jflag
Can you imagine the response if Prime Minster Andrew Holness decreed that trans genders could use any bathroom in Jamaica?
Laugh me laugh
Cap
BTW..JA talk radio is buzzing about this
With all the uni-sex bathrooms around the island, there would be no need for a decree. But seriously, he would have to get the anti-sodomy laws revoked before any degree could be made and I dont feel the island is ready for that move.
Latoya Nugent of JFLAG (Jamaica Forum of Lesbians, All-Sexuals and Gays) said in the third link I posted above:
"Security is usually top priority and because a lot of it (events) is done in secrecy and spaces are not so open, the risk is minimised. The promoters take extra precaution," she said.
Nugent spoke, however, of one event, Pride Jamaica, which was held locally last year in an open space.
"There were no security breaches. The police also provided support as they would for any other event," she said.
Interesting read...I've always been interested in this topic... one day ... Hopefully... They will come around.... But in the meantime... I'll still keep coming back to the island I love
Having listened to reggae long before I had an understanding of Jamaican culture, I was very dismayed to learn about their intolerance. I never thought I'd have to listen to the lyrics of reggae songs closely to make sure they weren't offensive to me or others.
I'm starting to believe that "Respect" and "One Love" are nothing more than slogans. I so want to go on a rant but I don't want to start painting with a broad brush based on my limited experiences.
Marco - thank you for that link. Reading the personal experiences during the attack is difficult...I can't imagine living it.
you are very welcome
.
Yes there is a lot to learn about Jamaican culture, and as I grow in understanding the more sense it makes. Just because the world seems to be going one way doesn't mean it is the right way, the best way or a good way to go. Tolerance vs intolerance well, IMO we'd be better off with more intolerance and standing strong for a higher authority, resisting the human penchant of waywardness. I hope Jamaicans stay strong on the matter and the country retains its current perspective.
What do you hope they stay strong on? The fact that being gay and female in Jamaica is ok but being gay and a male is not? IME, having a gay Jamaican female friend, the only issue is gay men. I have observed this after spending days with her in all sorts of settings, just as I have seen numerous locals going off about gay men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola
Better off with more intolerance? Just what the world needs......
Those preaching tolerance might consider being tolerant of the Jamaicans beliefs.
Reminds me of what a friend said about visitors to JamaicaQuote:
Originally Posted by Xwindjammer
I am surprised at how they live at all without us being there to tell them how to live. Maybe that is the missionary is us.Quote:
"The trick is not to see things as they are, but to see them as they could be — as what we might yet make them.
We won't be satisfied until we make-over Jamaica just like home and then we won't want to visit there any more because then
we will want to move there or go change somewhere else."
Enjoy Jamaica.
I agree with windjammer. We as visitors should respect their beliefs.
Well said boogerQuote:
Originally Posted by booger
A promotion of hate towards your fellow man will never be seen as positive thing, and only leads to situations like occurred in Orland o only a week ago. I'm not sure how keeping the status quo of hate or intolerance is good for anyone, resident, visitor or anyone else. Can anyone tell me a positive outcome of encouraging, or tolerating, discrimination and hatred based on sexual orientation? "let them do as they please" is a perfectly OK response to gay rights, but the criminal underground is something we as tourists are welcome to comment about? I thought we were supposed to let them handle things how THEY best see fit, and keep our noses out of it? Not to point fingers, but its seems a degree of hypocrisy in that regard. Why is it as tourists, or even as long-term visitors or ex-pats, people feel its completely ok to address some shortcomings and dangers on the island, while others are "off-limits" and thats "just how it is" and we're supposed to accept it?
I totally agree with what you are saying in theory. I've learned from all my time in jamaica that when I apply the sense of reason i have learned in the US to the customs and lifestyles in Jamaica that often things don't always align as I'd seeQuote:
Originally Posted by Troublemaker_420
Fit. I wish it were different but that just may take time.
But what would have happened if those living outside of the apartheid regime in South Africa were merely tolerant of the of the way things were there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xwindjammer
There is an interesting program on Vice called "Gaycation", which is about homophobia in around the world. This one is in Jamaica: https://www.viceland.com/en_us/video...8d460f15d3505b
You have to have a cable or satellite subscription to watch, alas...:(
I feel like this thread is really showing people for what they are.
I think that we have to respect a culture that is different than ours, Their beliefs might seem outrageous to us, just as our beliefs seem outrageous to them. We have to remember that we can't change their beliefs. It's frustrating, but we have to realize that everyone doesn't agree with each other because of culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by TAH
Very true cleome.
I'm not sure if I'd call it cultural...no different than some of the US, Canada etc. changing its thinking/tolerance and now laws.
After many, many conversations on this topic here in Negril and just having come back from a very political/business event in Kingston which included heads of state and industry from Jamaica and around the world...the event included the head of JFLAG (Jamaican Forum for Lesbians, All-sexuals and Gays). I'm singling out this person because of the topic of this thread only...to show the thinking/tolerance is changing here also.
Apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany are just two of the more recent examples of why we should not excuse man's inhumanity to his fellow man by writing it off as 'culture' or 'belief'. Hatred and discrimination based on sexuality is no different than that based on race or creed. There really are objective standards of human behavior, and fortunately they improve over time.
I believe everyone is being respectful of their culture? Merely pointing out a perceived injustice is not being disrespectful. People can respectfully disagree. However, advocating and even inciting violence when you disagree with someone...now that's being intolerant and disrespectful. Where would this world be without people calling out for equal rights and justice? Who's the oppressor now?Quote:
Originally Posted by cleome
Right on, Kevin!
I don't preach.... here's a short part of a reasoning I had recently.....
One mahn ask me .......Captain............. what you think about the “batty boys" dem?
Me........... "Dem no trouble me...me no trouble dem.....mek them gowan..."
Some think about it....some don't
Cap
Look how the tolerance for unregistered motor bikes and unlicensed drivers has worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by booger
If parents are tolerant of everything their children do?
Tolerance of everything is chaos.
really? intolerance will make it all go away? and intolerance will make them straight????Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola
Well said Lola.
Except we're not children.
Wow. Just... wow.
well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by HarryS
I'd still like lola to answer my question. How does intolerance and hatred make the world a better place? How can you say that we should respect their views and accept thats how it is. Yet, we don't accept thats "just how it is" when tourists get gunned down on streets we've all strolled down. Suddenly, the Jamaican way of handling things isn't good enough and we want "real" justice NOW. I think those that think the Jamaican viewpoint on homosexuality is righteous, acceptable, or even "makes sense" harbor more than a little bit of homophobia themselves. Its not "OK" when people are beaten bloody in the streets, or gunned down en masse, because of their sexual preferences. I cannot believe there are those that seemignly feel otherwise. Frankly I don't care if its biological predisposition or choice...its none of my business who another loves or how they love them. I'd be insulted if anyone questioned my love towards my wife, who am I , as a mere man, to judge anther's love? Intolerance and hate is never a positive trait, and most of the world has realized this. Those that still harbor feelings to the contrary are a minority, and will out themselves as the bigots they are given time.
'' I think that those that think the Jamaican viewpoint on homosexuality is righteous, acceptable, or even ''make sense'' harbor more that a little bit of homophobia themselves.'' Bingo !!!!
It seems the word “tolerance” keeps getting thrown around a lot in this thread. I’m not sure if people understand what it actually means to be tolerant. The whole notion of the idea of tolerance is rooted in the idea of superiority, as only a superior person tolerates an inferior human being. Just my option but I feel that "tolerance" is a lie because it produces a "me" that is always apart from what is being tolerated. You can’t have true acceptance or love while tolerating.
BTW.. Well said Troublemaker_420
I agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind & Linston
.
To those spouting ridiculing myths, my dearest friend is homosexual and I rent a room in his house (in the us). We have excellent daily conversations about topics scriptural, secular, civil law, Jamaica, everything.
That does little to actually answer the question asked of you, Lola. Whether you converse with a homosexual or not wasn't my question. It was "How does intolerance and hate make the world a better place? Why should we respect a viewpoint we find to be wrong? In some cultures, perverse acts with children are widely accepted. Is that also a viewpoint we should respect, or at the very least, shut up about and look the other way if we find it disturbing or wrong? If not, explain the difference. Renting a room from a person of a certain orientation doesn't exclude you from questioning your viewpoints, and is something I find altogether irrelevant, honestly. My landlord's sexual orintation has nothing to do with this conversation, so I'm not sure what makes yours relevant?
I don't think the Jamaican people *hate*. They just don't approve of the very unnatural lifestyle.
That's just plain not true at all. On the whole, there is very much hate (and violence) directed at homosexuals in Jamaica. You don't have to look very hard to see it, so either you're obfuscating, or you just don't understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaherring