I'm going to start a new thread so as not to mash up Rocknrollfarmer's trip report...
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Originally Posted by Mike_D
Quote:
Originally Posted by agregory
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I'm going to start a new thread so as not to mash up Rocknrollfarmer's trip report...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_D
Quote:
Originally Posted by agregory
ok... where is this place?
..... no dont tell me...
I went over and read most of the messages on TA...
There seems to be a description of two different locations...first one being in the area of Love Lane/Divers Village...currently being called Shanty Town by a few visitors via Lenbert's colourful description of the area using Bob Marley's lyrics, "shanty town" from "Reaction" and Desmond Dekker's "Shanty Town". It's a mix of wooden buildings, a small amount of concrete buildings and backs closely to Seastar Lane.
The other area is past Bella Donna's...up Summerset Road. There's a bar and Lenbert's own property up a steep hill...it offers an amazing sea view up there.
I've experienced many versions of this bus ride, having been on it from the first day Rob and Lenbert started the Love Bus and the last time being the end of January of this year. I've seen people not wanting to get off the bus for a variety of reasons...some thought it was a shopping trip, were surprised people would be drinking and were waiting to get back quick, some wanted to remain in the air conditioning, some waited for fancier bars and some were straight up truly nervous.
Lenbert started taking people into these smaller areas as some visitors would ask to see the "real Negril" and had items they wanted to give to the children, etc. He never thought anyone would be uncomfortable, as this is where he's lived for a very long time and knows the families intimately.
Unfortunately for some, this side of Negril can be a bit too intense/overwhelming...but personally I think Lenbert does a terrific job making people feel as comfortable as possible. You get to interact with some nice people and patronise a couple of the smaller bars that truly don't see a lot of business.
That's all I have on this topic for now. :)
I never link but thanks. I will give homage to your time. Ta.
Ok, hear is the real deal...been on this bus over 15 times, 3-4 times a year the last 3 year alone...I have been to the so called "shanty town"...and the reason people are calling it that is because that is what lenbert calls it...his exact words...been there 3 times...the place is the one bnewb described first....i have also been to his house several times as a guest, and he does not call the bar on that lane shanty town, just the one that butts up to seastar through the bush...
I agree groove16. I've been on the bus probably 9 times, {helping the groovy bus driver with the tunes for 5 years, since about the start. Now, people are requesting more Prince. RIP. Thank you very much.} Yeah, that's what Lenbert calls that area by love lane. Been to his house numerous times as a guest also. I have a friend Paul, who lives in Shantytown on top road in Little London. It's a mix of wooden buildings too. Peace.
This thread was started because of the incorrect comments posted on TripAdvisor. I called Lenbert today and told him about TA and asked his permission to set the record straight. The "real deal" is that Lenbert, Lisa and I came up with the idea of the One Love Bus Pub Crawl in 2011 and we originally webcast LIVE from the moving bus until it became so popular that there was no more room on the bus.
We have been helping with the pub crawl ever since it started. Bnewb cleared up the confusion that has been posted on TA in her original post. She even added more detail to correct misconceptions on TA. That site needs help... (grin)
Attachment 47752
I believe this is one of the bars in "shanty town".
Bars like that are some of my favorite across the island! You know the old saying, don't judge a book by its cover... (grin)Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryS
Different strokes for different folks ....
I for one have not & will not ever go on the One Love Pub Crawl
Not our style ... but, others love the vibe & that's cool
- who am I to judge how & what you like to do on your vacation
I do have to ask ...I assume that the word " Shanty town " is Jamaican slang for - ghetto
& I also assume that nobody really likes the area you live in to be called a ghetto/ Shanty town ..
BTW - we eat/drink @ any establishment.. ..judge not ... Cheers
A shanty town or squatter area is a settlement of improvised housing, called shanties or shacks, made of plywood, corrugated metal, sheets of plastic, and cardboard boxes. Such settlements are usually found on the periphery of cities, in public parks, or near railroad tracks, rivers, lagoons or city trash dump sites. Sometimes called a squatter, informal or spontaneous settlement, a typical shanty town often lacks proper sanitation, safe water supply, electricity, hygienic streets, or other basic human necessities.
Thanks Lisa for separating my post. Didn't mean to Hijack RocknRollFarmer's trip report.
Also, thanks Rob & Lisa for clearing things up. I thought "Shanty Town" might be a new Negril attraction I was missing out on. (Welcome to Shanty Town®! Where you can enjoy a drink with REAL Jamaicans!)
I agree that the TA forums are a mess. I sometimes read it when I get bored, but have to restrain myself from posting and getting caught up in that BS. Don't know why anyone would go there for good Negril information, unless you wanted to know which RIU has a better breakfast buffet.
Stops like that are the best part of the bus, for me anyway. Getting to see places I probably wouldn't stumble to on my own. The kids are also part of the fun of it as well. We usually bring some soccer balls or other sports stuff to give away and get to play a little impromptu game at a few of the stops. Lucked out this year and found a hell of a deal on soccer balls, so we'll be bringing about a dozen or so. Can't exactly kick around a ball at Xtabi or the like.
Right on Jerms! Also, Dr Feelgood (located right across from Negril Escape) runs a soccer (football) league for the area youth. The field is behind his stand and the Central Park area. In this photo, you can see an advertisement for the league painted on the wall behind me. Dr. Feelgood accepts donations of soccer supplies to help run the league. I have also given cash donations in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerms
Attachment 47762
Mi love some Shanty /Ghetto places.
Funny, there is no trouble at all in those places for a visitor.
Also, you can eat like a King once you get to know the Mom's.
some call the Love Lane area the "Village" while others have other names like Lemberts "Shanty Town"...
mi had a board house back in 1997 at the very top of "Village" or "Shanty Town".......
soon after mi started staying at mi board house...they put in the water road that goes from Summerset Lane to Seastar Lane.....
and then this Love Lane all started on captured land by squatters by people putting up board houses......
then came some of the concrete houses that mi wi have now.....but this land is all government land
back around the late 90's there were only about a half dozen houses including mine.......
every year since then.....more and more houses have appeared..and bars etc....considering nobody owns the land
the "Village" and or "Shanty Town" is pretty civil......and very few problems that mi know of
hey the Jamaicans need a place to live in Negril like many areas across Jamaica and this fit the bill for many Jamaicans...
mi don't have the cottage anymore however mi know a lot of the original squatters......
Cool Runnings, Marko
Harry, is this the place across SeaStar Lane directly across from Seastar Inn back in the Fisherman's village. This looks like my buddy Duce Blanc's shop?
I'm pretty sure it is. Was drinking (pub crawl after all) so can't say 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by VVHT
I enjoyed a couple beers there. I'd go back when not on the tour so as not to be a target. Not a whole lot different than going to say, Collettes.
Having little kids sent by the parents to pull on the heartstrings of tourists for a cash handout is not cool, and begging is probably not a great lesson to learn at such a young age. We're not talking one or two... we're talking more than a dozen young children, and slightly older ones selling bracelets.
Why not have them sell something useful? Snacks on a pub crawl? Hells yes! How many bags of chips or cookies or candy bars do you think they could have sold, and actually earned the money, and learned a much more positive lesson?
I also wanted to state that I know that this area is not a shanty town - hence my use of quotes in my original post on the subject.
Great idea about them selling something usueful to a bus full of drunk people.
Harry...I think one or two is just as bad as a dozen children begging. And, they have sold more than bracelets...they were selling chocolate bars a few years back.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryS
We talked to more than a couple of children about getting their butts back in school...we encouraged them to become educated business people instead of skipping classes and begging off tourists and losing out on their schooling, etc. Thankfully we were lucky with a couple of boys.
In the ensuing years...more children started to show up as tourists continued to bring items and hand over money to them. As I mentioned in my previous post, the issue intensified because Lenbert was asked to take people into areas that get bypassed and don't directly benefit from tourism...these visitors had items they wanted to give to the children. As more tourists heard about bringing gifts/candy/money during the pub crawl...the children were naturally excited to receive these gifts...and again the number of children increased following the bus around.
It's become a double edged sword for Lenbert...as now the children are expecting gifts/money and many of the Love Bus Crawlers are wanting to give to the children...when or how does Lenbert stop it?
Personally...I wish people would donate to places such as the NEET project or St. Anthony's soup kitchen or any of the outlining schools...rather than handing gifts/money over to a random child.
Agreed 100%, all of it. I really wish more tourists could/would understand this concept. Most of the people who do it, do it with the very best intentions, but just don't see the long term negative impact. There is also a positive impact, but that is much shorter lived.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bnewb
Quite a pet peeve of mine, to many folks ignorant to the term harm it can cause.
Giiving money or gifts , some that can be resold like pens, perpetuate a cycle of poverty and give children a strong incentive to stay out of school.
'' The imperative to not give money or gifts to child beggars doesn't mean we have to turn our backs on them. Donate to responsible NGO'S ( non governmental orginizations) , and look
for creative new ways to be kind to children that won't disrupt familial dynamics, encourage long term poverty, undercut local businesses, or abet human trafficking. ""
I can understand that many visitors have good friends they might bring gifts to. this is different than just random, money, gift giving.
Also, just a side note, I have noticed the last few years that the young boys on the beach, getting actually angry if you don't buy their bracelets, not good IMO.
I bought several bracelets from an older gentleman several trips ago. We take them with us when we go to Jamaica. When we start getting ask to buy bracelets we show the potential seller that we already have one. That is usually the end of the sales pitch. Usually.
giving handouts in Negril is self defeating....causes more problems than you can imagine.....
mi live in Negril most of the time and most kids here don't understand why mi not giving out stuff like the foreigners do....
makes it really hard on mi and the other expats that live in and around Negril.......
and what happens to some of these kids that get handouts......they don't want to work as they grow older and rather get handouts....
you are setting up these kids to get into trouble as they become teenagers and become trouble makers and even worse...trust mi
like Bnewb said...give to the NET and the soup kitchen etc or the schools themselves....jah bless
Cool Runnings, Marko
Please do not give the kids handouts, regardless of how it makes you feel inside. This encourages the begging culture and does not motivate them to succeed. Would you do the same back home?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko
I am so with those that do not give monetary handouts or buy for the sake of the smile. It so interrupts a way of life that we intrude on. Be it a good or bad idea, I brought some balloons and sidewalk chalk and had a few precious moments of colour and being engaged. I can guarantee you will be more remembered than your 100$ Jamaican and you too will be charmed.
You really shouldn't give anything out at all. It all feeds the problem, whether it's money, candy, chalk, whatever. If you want to do something to help, as others have said, give to the churches or other community groups. Having them "remember you" is precisely what creates the problems that Marko described above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrie
I believe completely opposite and see everyday what the handouts cause...read the linked article below.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrie
Do give money to organisations that help the community...this can warm your heart and any amount of money can help...there is no minimum or maximum in the amounts needed.
Do not give handouts/gifts unless you know the family...not every parent/guardian is pleased with their children getting handouts.
We were all taught as children not to take candy, toys etc from a stranger (stranger danger)...I'm not sure why it would be different here. If I choose to give anything to a child...no different than I would anywhere...I ask the parent/guardian of the child for permission or have the child get permission to be allowed to take it from me.
JojoP (thanks Jojo) found a really, really good article that everyone should read...maybe it'll help with an understanding of why we shouldn't give handouts...
http://www.slate.com/articles/double...n_t_do_it.html
Well now that I'm thoroughly bummed out....
My pens, toys, and school supplies will be going directly to NEET again, and other organizations I find when back in Negril in April. My soccer balls will be going directly to Dr Feelgood's league. I still have gifts for the individuals I have met and gotten to know over the years, as well as some hotel staff, but I won't be handing things out as freely this year.
Jerms,
There is no reason to feel bummed out. By doing as you suggest, you are helping out the children in the best possible way!
Knowledge is power, and although you may not feel the instant gratification you have in the past, you will be able to smile knowing you are supporting the future.
Feel great about that!
Hey Jerms,
How about visiting a school.
I did, and they made me Teacher for a Day!!
It was the best 8 hours I ever spent in Jamaica.
You can personally hand out school supplies to the class.
Not beggers, but students, and you can reinforce the value of an education.
They will love you till the stars fall from the sky.
Just wondering what Marko, Rob et al..... feel about this idea.
My comment about being bummed out was more about reading the article on child beggars/human trafficking. I admit to being guilty by handing out pens and such on my last two visits. I brought a few hundred with me each time and although the majority went to NEET, I did give away quite a few on the beach and on the bus ride. The first stop each time on the bus was across the street from a school, so we skipped that first beer and ran over to hand out pens to the students as they were leaving the school. It never occurred to me the potential damage I may be causing.
I'll definitely be more mindful this time around. The staff at Traveller's were great and very appreciative when we donated to them for NEET. The selfish self-gratification part of giving things away is completely irrelevant once I now know of the potential negative effects of it. If anyone knows the best way to contact any nearby schools directly, I'd love to know.
Jerms...I agree...that article is beyond heartwrenching...but incredibly thought provoking.
We have contacts for schools and I'm actually meeting with a school representative today. I would be happy to share contact information...will do this after I meet with them.
If anyone is wanting to visit a school...please set up an appropriate day and time with the school administrators...as school visits can be wonderfully educational for all those involved, but of course, can be very disruptive. I think taking your children to these schools (planned ahead) is an even better experience for all the sweet, little kiddos. :)
We have brought school supplies before and brought them directly to a school. Years ago we used to bring old computer equiptment to a lady who had an internet cafe in the west end and she brought it to a school and used it to teach kids. I agree that handouts justs feeds the problem but i dont think i will ever be able to keep my lady from bringing loads of candy to give out to every kid she sees when we are out and about in jamaica lol.
You should have her read this thread, and the linked article. This really isn't some abstract idea, it's a real problem, and any and all tourists giving hand outs only contributes to the issue. I don't say that to be rude in any way, but it's reality. I won't even attempt to get involved in that TA thread, but I like to think the posters here are more receptive to the facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irieonline
I brought stuff for the kiddos in "shanty town" once and saw the mayhem it created. That made me question it. Then, while stopping for a roadside beer on a later trip, a little girl came running up to beg a bag juice. My driver told her that she shouldn't beg, that it wasn't good. It wasn't a "leave the man alone" type of way, but more like he was trying to teach her. I took a mental note and stopped giving hand outs to the kids on the pub crawl. I accepted that five minutes of me feeling good and patting myself on the back doesn't validate reinforcing unproductive behavior.
We had a similar experience as MikeyNYC, once, while having dinner at Sweet Spice. As we were finishing up and paying our bill, the waitress told us to wait inside until our driver arrived. Thinking that was an odd request, I looked through the front window and saw a few kids outside who were watching us tourists and waiting for us leave. Our driver finally arrived and came into the restaurant and walked us to his car. Sure enough, the kids followed us asking for a hand-out. I politely said, "Sorry, I spent all my money on dinner". My driver said something harsher in Patois that sounded something like, "wash your feet and go to bed!"
Well written, Bnewb.