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Right now I'm frustrated because of numerous delays in my home purchase in Westmoreland. Cash offer in January and now it's June and we're still months away. Arggh. I might be able to move sooner ("early possession") but still being discussed.
Nothing moves fast. A bank errand can take all day. Even fast food is slow!
Often the pace is good but when you're trying to get something done it's frustrating.
No question to ask in this thread. Just venting. :)
I understand you're "just venting"...but a contract is a contract...what is your lawyer telling you about your home purchaser? You should have a confirmed possession date.
I don't know exactly why but somehow I get a feeling that the "venting" has just begun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bnewb
Oh, we're going to miss the contract date (basically now) due to lost title. The piece of paper that is, he does own the property. I don't think that happens in the US (owners don't hold the physical title). Lawyer says I could legally cancel due to missed date but advises to instead just wait on replacement title because cancellation is itself a long process. I.e. wait for home or wait for 18m J back would be about the same wait. So might as well wait on home since cancelling isn't going to get me any other property faster. I'm learning a bit about the real estate process in Jamaica which is different from US.
I'm afraid you going to have to get used to it or go nuts.
Just go with the flow
50 yrs experience here
Cap
There's definitely a learning curve here. It can be horribly frustrating if you're trying to apply your learned way of life to another country/culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Accompong
The most difficult can be figuring out who is actually going to give you the best advice!
I have had several friends who when trying to purchase land in the Treasure Beach Area (for example) found that the original title was in a great, great, grandfather's name or sometimes even back to the Land Grant days and was never transferred to the next owner in line. Lots of time people think they own land but they are not the "registered legal" owners. It took a good friend almost 11 months to get a clean title owning to the line of failures to register death certificates. It happens a lot more than you even probably think.Quote:
Originally Posted by rtitle
Buying anything in Jamaica is like eating a Sh*t Sandwich....the more Bread you have ($), the Less Sh*t your gonna have to eat....Big money comes in, hands over a briefcase, signs a paper, moves in..........Jamaica, U.S. any country....same-same
But good to vent Mon!
I'm glad you have a lawyer! Real estate is different here than the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by rtitle
It's similar to Canada's system...which I'm extremely well-versed.
The land titles system in Jamaica is getting better...but as you're figuring out there's issues with some land not being completely "on the books" and questionable ownership.
There's a few oddities in your real estate transaction, that I don't quite understand...but I do hope that your money is sitting with the lawyer and not with the "property owner"?
I do hope this all works out for you, Rtitle! Hang in there and go with the flow as Capt D said...
Money is held in a bank account controlled by my side but tied up by a "Letter of Undertaking" which means it is committed for the sale and I can't just take it back. You have to get one of these - you can't just show up at a closing with a bank check or briefcase full of cash (which I think you can do in the US). At least that's what my lawyer told me. I trust her.
It's not a huge problem but the delay is frustrating.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah I'm sure that happens. BTW I discovered there is a government website ELand Jamaica https://elandjamaica.nla.gov.jm/elan...activemap.aspx which is pretty useful for checking into these things when considering buying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Accompong
Alright Rtitle...good to hear that you trust your lawyer.
The reason I ask the basic questions, isn't to insult anyone with real estate knowledge...but it always surprises me when people think that it's a handshake & a bag of cash because someone told them that's "how it's done in Jamaica".
This happens so often...I've lost count of the ones I've personally learned about.
And...how many times Booby Cay has been sold?!! :beguiled:
Due diligence should be always be exercised in any country regarding real estate & business transactions! :encouragement:
Another oddity in Jamaica is that some country folk have this notion of "capture land" where they occupy a vacant piece of land they don't own, and then act like it's theirs. Some will try to convince you there's validity to the concept of capturing land and then try to sell it to you for cash and/or get you to build a house on it.
On the lighter side, there is something that is fast in Jamaica, MOTORCYCLES.
Rtitle,Quote:
Originally Posted by rtitle
There is no oddity as it is a valid concept.
Occupational rights can be granted under what is known as adverse possession.
The notion is supported by the law, so some country folk are actually helping you by explaining some of laws that are not familiar.
But as a foreigner, buying such land is not recommended. Get a clear title first.
i don't know... if you see this as an oddity, it kinda means you're not fully attuned to the culture at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by rtitle
i'm not saying you should ever consider buying a piece of land that doesn't have a clear/clean deed, but the fact that you use the word "oddity" to describe a very common practice throughout the caribbean leads me to think you're going to be in for a LOT of surprises once your deal comes through.
I have expat friends living part or full time in Jamaica, Panama, Portugal, Costa Rica, and Mexico. Rule number 1: Embrace the culture, the groove, the traditions, and remember you aren't in New York, and handfuls of cash won't change a thing. I know more than one couple (and one family) that ended up right back in the States because they could not handle the how slow things happen, heaps of bureaucracy, and blatant racism. I have been advised to rent long term before buying.Quote:
Originally Posted by mwenvlay
I wish you well Rtitle. If nuttin moves fast in Jamaica then, nuttin moves fast in Jamaica. Embrace the groove.
ya ...and carsQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasmith
Fair enough, but it also might help explain why Jamaica remains a 3rd world country with a high murder rate, high unemployment, etc. JA needs to continue to modernize or be left behind, easy to say "culture" but it's this kind of issue that hurts investment opportunities and thus the chance to advance the nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by mwenvlay
Investment opportunities abound in Jamaica. A copy of any land title is available from the National Land Agency (NLA) and can be purchased online via the NLA's website.Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffGong
This is available because of the modernization steps that the government made many years ago.
Anyone interested in investment opportunities that can advance the nation are encouraged to use this service.
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/n...rvice-diaspora
Listed below is the website for NLA that Rob mentions, thanks Rob for advancing the nation! Order of Merit for you!
http://www.nla.gov.jm/
i might be slightly interested in hearing why you seem to dig spending a decent amount of time in a violent, ****ed up 3rd world country. do you think it's a place you'll eventually leave behind?Quote:
Originally Posted by TuffGong
I keep getting called naive and ignorant so I thought I'd give a little context about myself, because I think many of you are making wrong assumptions.
I first visited Jamaica 20 years ago. On my first visit I was invited by the hotel housekeeper (Negril hotel) to her home in rural Hanover where she lived with 3 small pickneys. I became a friend to this family and kept visiting regularly, usually staying with them on subsequent visits. I became like a father to the 3 girls. Grown now, the oldest is living and working in the US, the middle one living and working in Jamaica, the youngest now in nursing school in Jamaica. I helped along the way by paying for college for the older 2 & am now paying for nursing school for the youngest. They call me "dad" and are like family.
What I loved from the start was the less-developed lifestyle. Coming from a big city in the U.S. where everything is rush-rush and life is full of stress, I would immediately relax in the Jamaican countryside. Life felt more real. People seemed more connected to each other and to nature. There was so much love within that simple household, and a sense of community in the town. Some visitors from the U.S. come to such places and say things like "these people are so poor, we should *help* them". My reaction was different, more along the lines of "these people live a nice life, I shouid *join* them".
Later I met my now-wife in Kingston. She is a sophisticated city girl. Spending time with her in Kingston opened up a different side of Jamaica to me. Later through my wife's relatives I became familiar with another side of Jamaica which is the expat communities in London, New York, Boston, Toronto (sometimes referred to as "Kingston 11, 12, 13, 14,..." - real Kingston postal districts go up to 10), Sometimes tourists say things like "I want to see the real Jamaica" but in fact there are many real Jamaicas. Just like there are many real USA's.
At some point I decided I wanted to move to Jamaica and retire there. The rural countryside that is, not Kingston. My wife BTW is younger and not ready to retire so this'll be me alone moving. Since at this point I know many Jamaicans, I got a number of offers from people to sell me land. I would have conversations like "Do you own this land?". "Yes, it's capture land". "What does that mean?". "I put a fence around it 10 years ago so now it's mine". "I don't think it works that way". "Yes it does. You can buy it from me and build a house on it". "But who actually has title to it?". "Mi nuh know". "I wouldn't build on property I don't have title to". "Well, you can apply to the government for title if you want that". Yes I really had conversations like that.
Eventually I went through the official process involving realtors, lawyers, etc, and am hoping soon to own my own place.
So, umm... I probably *am* naive and ignorant about a lot of things, but I think at this point I know Jamaica pretty well. Always learning though. Thank you to those who help out with informative replies!
Peace and love,
Richard
Very cool. Good luck to you. I hope everything works out. My wife and I were married at Mary Gate of Heaven 20 years ago this past April and will be visiting in the next week. We have visited Negril four times previously and are looking forward to this visit.
Being thought of as being "naive" is not such a bad thing. When it comes to Jamaica, we are all a bit naive. Your story is not unique as many of us have stepped up to help Jamaicans we love and respect in many, many ways. You should understand that we, too, have learned many lessons from trial and error and are not looking to burst your bubble and your dreams. Many of us envy you for stepping out and trying to make them come true instead of just dreaming about it. Also, you must realize that your story sounds as familiar as an echo as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by rtitle
While growing up, I was always imploring my parents to invite a foreigner into our “family” so I could get a college education. Just a joke. Doesn’t happen here, right? In Jamaica, it does and quite often. Making a good friend of a foreigner who can help is a treasure and a gift that can keep giving for a long time. There is nothing wrong with it but it is important to understand it is by no ways a unique experience with many of us. I put 2 pickney through a good part of their schooling at Kingston College.
Later, I met a “younger” lady from Kingston “11” where I lived in Seaview Gardens with her family. We eventually married. This is where I learned about the “Real” Jamaica. I also pretty much moved to rural St. Elizabeth where I lived with a Rastafarian (until my best friend’s death last year) in Accompong Town home of the Leeward Maroons on a 10+ acre farm growing our own fruits and vegetables as well as attempting (with various degrees of success) in selling them.
I have been doing all this over about 36 years and consider myself “naïve” still. I am still learning and I don’t make as many mistakes as I once did but every trip is another chance to make more.
Peace and Guidance
Wow, that's great, Accompong. Our stories have some similarities. And soon, we'll be almost-neighbors. Google Maps says 15km from my new place to Accompong (if I was a bird flying in a straight line over those mountains :)).
Sent a PMQuote:
Originally Posted by rtitle
Peace and Guidance
Great story, but I'm a bit confused about postal codes ending at 10. My house is in Kingston 17.Quote:
Originally Posted by rtitle