Juta Tour Drivers Scam

On a recent trip (February/March), I took the Juta bus (large 88 passenger) from Mobay to Negril.

As we loaded up, many passengers wanted to take some beer with them for the ride.
The driver and his assistant were quite adamant & quite vocal, saying this was a bad idea. They told all the passengers; "the beer too expensive here - wait and I stop at place much cheaper on the road".

The driver did pull over at a bar on the "old' road and everyone left the bus to get beers.

The bar tender (who never smiled once) just looked at me (did not ask what I might want) and I said "One cold Red Stripe, please". He opened and handed me a lukewarm beer and said $5 (US). I sat it down on the bar and said "no thanks" he then started with his patios/bloo***** routine, to which I told him to put the beer where the sun don't shine and blankity-blank bloo***** to him too.

There were 87 passengers on the bus. 86 of them bought at least 1 and some 2-3 beers @ $5 each. Approximately 100 beers = profit of over $400 in 15 minutes.

I am sure (in my mind) the driver got a kickback.
I did not tip the driver and his assistant and told them exactly what I thought of their scam instead.

I was the only English speaking passenger on the bus. I am sure most of the other passengers were not aware of the scam.
Just a "heads-up" for those of you using Juta.
Next trip I will make sure this does not happen on my bus trip to Negril.

Because it happened to you on one JUTA bus does not necessarily mean that it happens on ALL JUTA buses. Warning people is fine but painting with too wide a brush colors too much of an area and does a disservice to those who don't do it. I would suggest any people who ride JUTA (that includes me) to talk to their driver before leaving the airport about this problem (if it truly is a problem). Some problems are better left to a whisper than a megaphone.

Just my opinion.

Peace and Guidance

I like having my own driver. That said if the day comes when I may need to use Juta I will certainly ask questions before getting on the bus. $5 is crazy!

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Originally Posted by Accompong

Because it happened to you on one JUTA bus does not necessarily mean that it happens on ALL JUTA buses. Warning people is fine but painting with too wide a brush colors too much of an area and does a disservice to those who don't do it. I would suggest any people who ride JUTA (that includes me) to talk to their driver before leaving the airport about this problem (if it truly is a problem). Some problems are better left to a whisper than a megaphone.

Just my opinion.

Peace and Guidance

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No where in my post do I accuse "all" Juta drivers of this scam. Obviously, (at least it should be), I can only speak of my experience and that is the "driver" and his "assistant" that I mentioned. They are the only Juta employees mentioned - they are the only ones I know.

Perhaps you need to re-read or have the post read to you before you have further comment. Your "broad brush theory" does not apply to anything I posted. Maybe your comments would be better at a whisper instead of your bold loud font.

I just want people to be aware of this scam. This driver is on the Negril route every day - it is his regular route.

I did not comment about any other Juta employees, because I do not know others.

I've always had good experiences with Juta. We generally stop for beer and its always been cheaper than at the airport. That's too bad about your experience this trip.

Wow...hate that "lukewarm" part .

:cool:

Thanks for the heads up.

Of course the driver who stops his bus at a bar gets a kickback. Happens in my town. Happens in Jamaica.
That's how things are done all over the world.
You think all those buses stopped at the Golden Apple all those years for no reason?

You should have used Linston's Taxi.

I think 88 people in a Nissan Sylfy would be cool.

Kinda like the 70s and stuffing a Volkswagen Beetle

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Originally Posted by Big_frank

Of course the driver who stops his bus at a bar gets a kickback. Happens in my town. Happens in Jamaica.
That's how things are done all over the world.
You think all those buses stopped at the Golden Apple all those years for no reason?

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I like the Golden Apple, it's pricey but it's part of our vacation tradition :)

Not a scam, just standard business dealings the world over - 'you bring me business, you get a percentage'. This is SOP especially in the tourism business, where business is still done on a handshake and deals can always be made. When i worked as a tour guide, if i brought X number of customers to a certain restaurant for dinner, my meal was comped. When my agency booked above a certain number of rooms at a hotel, my stay was comped. If I brought a group of X number of people to a certain club, I'd get a commission on those sales I brought in. An agent who books X number of trip packages, receives their own plane ticket free. A commission or 'finder's fee' is SOP; it's how business is done everywhere.

that being said, yes, this does sometimes result in ridiculous prices at some establishments who still think in a "penny wise, pound foolish" manner. And even if not 'completely outrageous' markups, these kinds of places will still typically charge higher prices than normal, no matter what.

but in any case, this is just the nature of the beast in tourism. Anytime you're taken to a 'convenience' shopping spot on the bus route, it's gonna be high prices - of COURSE shop owners know that nuff ppl fresh off the plane will pay that convenience price to have that Red Stripe right now! Those not willing to pay the prices they charge - well... then don't buy anything. It's not like that's the ONLY choice; a few more minutes and you have your choice of regular roadside shops in Negril to choose from. So i dunno, it's just not that big of a deal imho. When we make our pitstop, i just don't buy at the bus-route shops.

and yes, this is standard for Juta; this is not "one driver" who is perpetrating some kind of "illegal" or scammish operation, all the drivers do it, and no doubt they each have their favorite shops with whom they make deals. Over the past 20 years, every Juta bus i have ever taken, does indeed stop along the way at a regularly designated spot. (just like in Mexico, the potty pitstops on the bus route were always at those crappy, overpriced 'souvenir' outlets ... that's how it's done everywhere.)

And yes, of course it's always high prices at those shops; the law of any kind of business deal is 'what the customer will bear', and they know there will always be customers who will bear it. :shrug: this is just SOP.

Seems to me they charge $10 a beer outside the airport, in which case, you got a better deal.

Seriously, $10 a beer!? Wow!

Don't mind the concept have been stopping various place all the while but don't take me somewhere on top of price gouging they have a rude behavior and poor quality items. I don't but unless I feel the vibe.

Not a scam...$5 is cheaper than you would have paid at the airport where in March it was $5.50 and I have read recently it has gone up to $6.25. A bar can charge whatever they want for a beer...it is up to the customer to decide if he wants to pay for it or not. In a roadside bar stop there is generally no competition, so they can charge whatever they want, if you want a beer you pay for it, if you don't...don't. This is one reason we now always hire a private service to Negril, where your driver can take you to a store if you want and your Red Stripes are a fraction of the cost in a bar, just like here in the states. Sorry you thought your were scammed...but you weren't.

why not just use clives,you'll be met with a friendly smile and a cold red stripe!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Face Down

Not a scam...$5 is cheaper than you would have paid at the airport where in March it was $5.50 and I have read recently it has gone up to $6.25. A bar can charge whatever they want for a beer...it is up to the customer to decide if he wants to pay for it or not. In a roadside bar stop there is generally no competition, so they can charge whatever they want, if you want a beer you pay for it, if you don't...don't. This is one reason we now always hire a private service to Negril, where your driver can take you to a store if you want and your Red Stripes are a fraction of the cost in a bar, just like here in the states. Sorry you thought your were scammed...but you weren't.

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I purchased 2 beers at the airport that day for $4 each. The going rate at a bar along the old road is Not $5. Most definitely was a scam as the price for the beer was grossly inflated. I've spent over two years in Jamaica and do know the price of a beer at a local bar ( yes, it can vary a little). $5 for a lukewarm Red Stripe is a blatant gouge and should not be tolerated by visitors to the island.

it IS overpriced, yes. but that is separate and distinct from it being a 'scam'. A shop owner can charge whatever they like - just because some don't feel said price is fair, does not mean it's illegal, shady, or unethical (which is what a scam is) - just that it's overpriced. If enough people don't buy from them, they will soon change their tune. But if they continue to make sales at those prices, well.... that's what the public will bear and they will keep the price where it is.

And they can indeed give commissions to someone who brings them sales. this is the way of the world.

Your right about Clive's transport. Been using him for years. Shawn always has a cold Red Strip or cold bottled water ready for you once he's got you at MBJ....NO CHARGE!! That said...a respectful tip isn't asking to much. Your just using the wrong Transport Service.
1876-956-2615 www.clivestransportservicejamaica.com

Well, it seems that someone who takes the "cheap" ride to Negril from the airport has to pay $5.00 US for a Red Stripe and someone who takes a charter ride (Clives etc.) pays a likkle more then pays nothing for a Red Stripe (in the price of the ride) or (at least) a lot less.

One person's "scam" is another persons "cost of doing business".

Like the old oil filter ad.... "Pay me now or pay me later". :cool:

Peace and Guidance

Pretty sure I paid less than $5 for a Red Stripe Bold at the airport on the 23rd....we are talking about the Groovy Grouper, right?

All of this being said...it isn't a good buzz for JUTA to be stopping for "cheap" $5 beers when the purpose of taking the JUTA is to save $$$. However, I don't think anyone is forcing you to buy beer. Did they prohibit you from bringing beer on the bus? Also, if you don't or can't have a private driver, then stops are at the mercy of the driver. You have lived long enough to know THAT!

If you really need to save the $15 each way to take the bus, then you are getting what you paid for. If you have two or three people, you just spent more on the bus than a private driver....just sayin...

"where else can you get a Red Stripe with such a view?"

and you just got off a multi-million dollar bus....we rich Americans dont 'ya know.....lol

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Originally Posted by MissBlue

it IS overpriced, yes. but that is separate and distinct from it being a 'scam'. A shop owner can charge whatever they like - just because some don't feel said price is fair, does not mean it's illegal, shady, or unethical (which is what a scam is) - just that it's overpriced. If enough people don't buy from them, they will soon change their tune. But if they continue to make sales at those prices, well.... that's what the public will bear and they will keep the price where it is.

And they can indeed give commissions to someone who brings them sales. this is the way of the world.

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The "local" price is 200 J. The "white" price is $5 US.

I know what a scam is and this is it. A scam does not have to be illegal.

I did NOT buy a beer.
The unknowing Germans on the bus paid approximately $3 extra for a beer because the driver LIED (said beer was higher at airport - it was $1 less than they paid) and acted like $5 was the "normal" price and (according to him)"a cheap price". They did not know the going price for a beer and were scammed by the driver & bar owner.

Charging more than twice the normal price is a gouge and the Driver and Bar owner are in this SCAM together. The people on the bus do not know what the beer normally sells for. Many of them possibly on their first trip.

There is no decent human being supporting the unethical actions of this driver and bar owner. They are slime.

Anyone that thinks it is ok to lie to someone so you can overcharge them 2 1/2 times for something, is a worthless human being.

I am finished on this thread. You either have morals with respect for your fellowman and understand this is wrong or you try to justify this cheating, lying, unethical, fraudulent behavior.

Nobody was dying of thirst. Nobody had to buy a beer. In that case, it was just a worthless stop. If the non-North Americans didn't realize what the currency conversion actually was and a general idea of what a beer costs up in the hills.....well....I won't go there....

It's not good Karma to have done that. Its not good business for JUTA to allow it. But its not really a "scam"...sorry you felt so badly about it, I hope it didn't spoil the rest of your vacation.

Again, if there were two or three of you...you overpaid because you could have had a private driver....just sayin....

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Originally Posted by Irie John

The "local" price is 200 J.

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Not beating you up....but I'm curious how you know the "local" price was 200J? Did the bar have that price posted?

I've seen prices recently from 150J to 600J....so it goes. I don't buy at the places that I can't afford as I wouldn't anywhere...and YES, if I'm paying a higher price...that beer better be ICE cold...:).
Also, the driver may not have been technically lying to the Germans (if I remember correctly) one bar at the airport charges 400J and the other charges 500J.

I will count on CaptainD to correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the minimum wage in Jamaica is $55/wk, with no specification for the hours or days worked. And certainly no benefits. Where I come from, a beer is waaaay more than $5 ... for local brew.

I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone any kickback from a $5 beer in a tropical paradise that I flew to on an airplane; headed to a cushy resort to escape the cold winters where I live.

I strongly recommend you go help out at St. Anthony's kitchen; you may see a side of our lovely island you have been insulated from.

They're not ripping you off. They're just trying to get dinner for their family for another night. Or keep their kids in school for another term. The life we are priviledged to lead in Negril is not what most Jamaicans lead.

There are real scams in Jamaica (and Montreal, Toronto, New York) that are laid out for tourists. One does have to be careful. But a crummy $5 for a beer? Budget it in for your next trip. 99% of the Jamaicans cannot even dream of budgeting for a trip like that!

I hope you left a tip!

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Originally Posted by M&G Montreal

...it is my understanding that the minimum wage in Jamaic..a is $55/wk, with no specification for the hours or days worked. And certainly no benefits. Where I come from, a beer is waaaay more than $5 ... for local brew..

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M&G,

As I wrote back January, here are the facts about the minimum wages, overtime, holiday, benefits, etc. requirements that all Jamaican employers, including myself, must follow:

"To set some matters straight and let the truth be known, raises in the minimum wages in Jamaica this century alone has seen the minimum wage increase in 2000, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2012. I am not agreeing with the amount of the wages, just setting the record straight.

http://www.lmis.gov.jm/lmis.aspx?id=...inimum%20Wages


http://m.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Ne...-effect-today-


There are rules and regulations for all manners of pay including overtime, holiday, vacation and gratuity payments. These are laws that all employers must follow. If an employee states something different, then perhaps they are unaware or have some other reason to not let you know the facts.


http://www.mlss.gov.jm/download/HolidayPay.pdf


http://www.ilocarib.org.tt/projects/...ica_act5.shtml


Some basic guidelines for all Jamaican employers can be found at:


http://www.jamaicatax.gov.jm/index.p...ployer-s-guide


As a business owner in Jamaica, I have had to keep abreast of these laws and make sure that they are followed."

Thanks, Rob! I knew one of the pro's would set the record straight.

Bottom line - the salaries are nowhere near what we get in the U.S. and Canada and $5 for a beer is not a "rip off"! Not by our standards, anyway. It may or may not be the "norm" but it is still a small price to pay on a luxury vacation on a tropical island for a beer. No? I am not saying you should pay $20 to everyone who offers you a Welcome bracelet .... but use your judgement, and your heart!

$5 beer! The same price you pay at Disneyland knew it would come to this : )

Thanks Rob for the links. It is good to have the facts as there is a lot of disinformation swirling around concerning how much Jamaican workers earn. It seems to me that what I thought I knew when I was traveling to Jamaica for a vacation and what I now know firsthand from living here that has given me a greater appreciation for the complexity of everyday struggling to survive.

You can see that we are all looking for our "travel bargains" when planning our vacations but many times these "bargains" are not trickling down to the people who actually do the work to provide us with a great vacation. As an example, let's use the subject of transportation to and from the airport to Negril. We want to get the best bargain so we do our research and find that a seat on a crowded JUTA bus in dollar terms is the best bargain unless we travel like a local Jamaican and use the Route Taxi system.

When I travel I usually use the JUTA bus, Route Taxi or have a neighbor friend pick me up as I can't frankly afford to spend my living in Jamaica budget in ways other than necessities like current, food, etc. as when you have a small amount to spend you make due with less. But, even as little as I have to spend, it is vastly more than those I live around have to spend as "life is no easy in Jamaica".

If I am traveling in a group (more than one person) then taking a private taxi like Clives etc. starts to make more economical sense as having the freedom to stop where and when one wants to and the one on one relationship with the driver is priceless. In both examples, the money that the driver actually makes is a small fraction of what you spend. The people who own the buses, vans and cars have a lot of overhead with the cost of petrol, insurance, etc. and after they make their small, little is left to pay the driver.

Because there are so many cars in Jamaica, everyone with one wants to think of themselves as a driver but only those with enough money to get a Red Plate and Insurance can actually call themselves one. The competition is fierce between all the forms of transportation that perks like cold Red Stripe etc. are included to provide the personal service that we as "bargain" travelers want to enjoy. But all these perks do come at a price squeezing the owner's small even more.

Once you use the private taxis like Clives and develop a "friendship" with the driver then you rightly justify your spending the money for the service they provide but what about the JUTA drivers in the big buses? It is much like taking a Greyhound bus between cities here in the US. The JUTA bus drivers are paid to get you from Point A to Point B and the amount they are paid is not so much that offering a pit stop that gives them some money for the business they bring to other Jamaican businesses isn't just a perk but a necessity as well.

If you want to travel on the cheap, expect to pay in other ways. If you are a frequent visitor to Jamaica and you are still taking JUTA buses then you aren't making many friends among the driving community. Saving money has its place to a certain point. Your vacation should be an enjoyable interaction with the Jamaican people at all levels from the time you arrive until the time you sadly have to leave.

Spending time fussing over a warm $5 Red Stripe seems like a not so "Irie" way of spending your time in Jamaica.

Just (again) my personal opinion.

Peace and Guidance

I was just in Munich and paid 9 dollars for a beer in Marienplatz. I think the Germans in Negril weren't hurt too much by this "scam". They probably thought it was a good deal.

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Originally Posted by Accompong

You can see that we are all looking for our "travel bargains" when planning our vacations but many times these "bargains" are not trickling down to the people who actually do the work to provide us with a great vacation. As an example, let's use the subject of transportation to and from the airport to Negril. We want to get the best bargain so we do our research and find that a seat on a crowded JUTA bus in dollar terms is the best bargain unless we travel like a local Jamaican and use the Route Taxi system.

Snip

Because there are so many cars in Jamaica, everyone with one wants to think of themselves as a driver but only those with enough money to get a Red Plate and Insurance can actually call themselves one. The competition is fierce between all the forms of transportation that perks like cold Red Stripe etc. are included to provide the personal service that we as "bargain" travelers want to enjoy. But all these perks do come at a price squeezing the owner's small even more.

Once you use the private taxis like Clives and develop a "friendship" with the driver then you rightly justify your spending the money for the service they provide but what about the JUTA drivers in the big buses? It is much like taking a Greyhound bus between cities here in the US. The JUTA bus drivers are paid to get you from Point A to Point B and the amount they are paid is not so much that offering a pit stop that gives them some money for the business they bring to other Jamaican businesses isn't just a perk but a necessity as well.

Snip

Peace and Guidance

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Well put Acc.

Having just spent the last year assisting with a "red plate" for my son Linston I can assure you it is not a cheap undertaking. There is certainly a huge difference between an owner/operator and a hired driver.

We decided on a very limited business model that hopefully will avoid the vigorous competition in the industry. The taxi is not Linston's sole responsibility so he actually runs part time on an "as needed" basis. Repeat business is the key to this model and providing something more than a simple ride.

Being a transportation sponsor here and with me being somewhat known has made the start up much easier.

That's a long way from a JUTA driver working for a salary and trying to make a few extra bucks.

You get what you pay for. Find a driver, pay him fairly and you will enjoy your visit that much more. If you really need to save 10 or 15 bucks on transportation then take JUTA.

And by the way it's Linston's Taxi on the transportation page. (grin)

Cap

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Well put Acc.

Having just spent the last year assisting with a "red plate" for my son Linston I can assure you it is not a cheap undertaking. There is certainly a huge difference between an owner/operator and a hired driver.

We decided on a very limited business model that hopefully will avoid the vigorous competition in the industry. The taxi is not Linston's sole responsibility so he actually runs part time on an "as needed" basis. Repeat business is the key to this model and providing something more than a simple ride.

Being a transportation sponsor here and with me being somewhat known has made the start up much easier.

That's a long way from a JUTA driver working for a salary and trying to make a few extra bucks.

You get what you pay for. Find a driver, pay him fairly and you will enjoy your visit that much more. If you really need to save 10 or 15 bucks on transportation then take JUTA.

And by the way it's Linston's Taxi on the transportation page. (grin)

Cap

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Well Capt..... you have been in Jamaica (living, visiting and working) for "donkey years" so I know you are a realist and don't see dollar signs every time you open your eyes.

I am sure your son (if he is anything like you and MissG) will make a go of it and, perhaps with luck and patronage from the board members, even a decent living from his efforts.

It is difficult for people who only know about Jamaica from the occasional couple of week visits over a few years to understand the totality of the struggle to make it in Jamaica.

I will do my part (whenever I can) to let people know about your son and his service. You know you can start him off by paying him to take you and MissG to visit me in Accompong Town this fall or winter! :rolleyes:

Best of all you do.

Peace and Guidance

I would be surprised if funneling business to friends, cousins, wives, or parents wasn't going on here like it does everywhere else. Usually it's no problem and a convenience of sort, but five dollars for a warm beer is off the hook.

Accompong....Clives (charter price) is $30 US one way per person....is extremely reasonable with or without the comped Red Strip & a non-stop ride to Negril. I say just get there & get to the bar of your choice ASAP & enjoy..it's a long enough ride as it is without stopping.

lol, dude, you can get as indignant as you wish, that is of course your prerogative - but if you could hear what people are saying in this thread, about how the free-market system works all over the world, you'd understand that there is nothing "cheating, lying, unethical, fraudulent" about this. A "scam" involves being 'tricked' in some way and there is no trickery going on here. It is nothing more than pure capitalism.... a product is offered at a price.... customer decides whether to buy at said price - or not. If they know that same product costs less elsewhere, they have the choice to buy it elsewhere. If they don't know that it's cheaper elsewhere, -or- if they do know and want it anyway, and are willing to pay said price, then merchant makes his sale. Things are sold at many different prices at many different places; your opinion is that this particular price is too high, and that is perfectly valid, but it's still just an opinion - you have free choice to exercise it by voting with your wallet. But the merchant not falling in line with your opinion does not constitute lying or fraud, just cause you don't like it.

Yes, 'buyer beware' is true the world over - but that's the free enterprise system - and that's all that is going on here. Some people might be perfectly willing to spring 5 bucks for that cold beer, even though you are not.

Where i live, gas is $3.39 two blocks from me and $3.89 a few miles up the road..... are people up the road being 'scammed' just because that merchant charges more, even though just a short distance away it's much cheaper? Nope.

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Originally Posted by rooster

Accompong....Clives (charter price) is $30 US one way per person....is extremely reasonable with or without the comped Red Strip & a non-stop ride to Negril. I say just get there & get to the bar of your choice ASAP & enjoy..it's a long enough ride as it is without stopping.

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Thanks rooster.

I thought that was Clive's price but, again, thanks for the confirmation.
I only used Clives as it was referenced a few times in the thread. Clive's provides a very good service but, as I said, I rarely ever go to Negril especially from the Airport. Usually from the Cockpits when I visit.

If I were going to Negril from the Airport, I would use Linston, Clive, Patrick, etc. (as I know countless drivers). The last time I went to Negril from the Airport, I had Seastar pick me up. Again, very reasonable and extremely friendly service.

I would not us JUTA to save a buck or two compared to the good drivers I know as an alternative. I guess I just don't get the fuss over the $5.00 beer. Well, maybe it is because I don't drink beer! :p

Peace and Guidance

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Originally Posted by Accompong

The last time I went to Negril from the Airport, I had Seastar pick me up. Again, very reasonable and extremely friendly service.


Peace and Guidance

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When you ride with Henry you also get a floor show/comedy routine! Plus a running commentary on other Jamaican drivers.

Always entertaining

i don't really care much about how i get to Negril - I use JUTA cause it's easy and cheap; I'd rather not have to deal with finding one specific person when i get to the airport, or wait for them to 'find' me.... 'path of least resistance' and all that. My personal opinion is that a private ride doesn't increase my enjoyment or value one way or the other; any four wheels and an engine gets me up the road same way. I'd rather have that extra money to use when I get where I'm going. I usually don't buy anything at these bus stops cause of course, it'll be pricey, and it's not that long a ride. if price really matters that much i'll wait 30 minutes. But if i feel to eat something anyway, i know i'll be paying a premium for it.

cause it's just standard that everything is much better-priced in regular shops than at airport or bus stop shops. any experienced traveler knows that this is how it is worldwide, no matter WHAT country one travels to. :shrug: tempest in a teapot.

Just paid $12.99 for a twelve pack at a local store in Northern CA yesterday! So I guess that would off-set the cost of 1 or 2 beers for 5 or 6 bucks upon arrival to JA! And that first one is AMAZING! Hmm think I'll have one now :)

Totally agree with MissBlue. Seriously don't think $5 a beer is too outrageous or anything to get worked up over. It's definitely not a scam. Too bad it was warm. I take Juta all the time, very inexpensive, and always buy two $5 beers for the road, wherever they stop. If it helps someone pay the bills, glad I could help.