Please clarify does the service charge include the tip or not in restaurants? We have been tipping on top of the service charge. What say U?
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Please clarify does the service charge include the tip or not in restaurants? We have been tipping on top of the service charge. What say U?
if i see a service charge that i was unaware of ..odds are i'm not tipping ..not that i'm cheap ..principled ?
What he said. A tip is for service so a service charge IS a tip. Right??....Damn..I dunno. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by NEGRILJAIL
my understading is that the service charge is NOT a tip and may not end up in the hands of the wait staff
I tip separately in that I personally hand the tip to the bartender/waitress
That is what we do as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homebrewer
Yup!
Ditto - give the service person the dough in their hand (if that is deserved).
If your bill has a "service charge" then this is a shared tip for all the hourly employees, not a direct tip to your bartender or server. The Jamaican government enacted the service charge in the tourism industry so that more Jamaicans benefit when people visit Jamaica.
A service charge of 10% is added to the bill, then it is totaled from all receipts during that pay period, and then split between all hourly employees equally, from the bartender to the gardener to the housekeepers. That way, when a guest purchases something, more than just the server makes a bit of money.
For a simple example, lets say a server hands you a for us$100, with a $10 service charge added. The server will not get that $10 service charge directly. Lets suppose there are 10 employees total at the property. At the end of the pay period, that $10 charge will be split between all 10 employees equally. So while the server did not get the entire $10, they did receive $1 from it as did all the other employees.
The service charge is set at 10% so that it leaves room open for you to tip the server directly - and that tip is up to your discretion. You can leave an additional 5% that they will keep for themselves, or any additional amount that you choose.
It is often speculated that the employees never see the service charge. You may even hear that from the employees themselves. But this is simply not true. If a business has a service charge, then the business can be fined and even closed should they do not share this with all their hourly employees. A server may say they never see the money, but they do see their percentage of that charge which is of course much smaller depending on the number of employees. For the example above, the server may feel they didnt get anything from it, because they never saw 90% of the charge. But they did receive their percentage on their paycheck.
I hope this clears up the issue a bit.
Thanks Rob!
Thanks Rob ...forthright information as per usual .. I still HATE service charges .. makes the customer atone for inadequate employer wages ... meaning that I am expected to pay part of every employees wages .. someone/somewhere has to admister to the allocation of these funds ..and that is not done for free ...it's just bad policy in my judgement ...
however i will always continue to reward good/great service with a tip .. just as eagerly as paying a bill to the penny for poor/inadequate service
Perfect explanation Rob, thanks!
So it's in effect is a shared tip. Although your server will only see a portion of that "shared tip", they will also see a portion of other service charges. I'll keep that in mind when providing direct tips.
In reality, everything you purchase at any business establishment has some aspect of that payment going towards paying wages for all the business' employees. The service charge is designed to allow all those that had a hand in providing the service you purchase to benefit from your purchase. While you have every right to reward for good service, in reality those direct tips rarely make it it to all those involved. For instance, in a restaurant you tip the server, but who tips the chef, the prep staff and the dishwasher - the server may not be sharing that tip although the server did not provide the dining experience you enjoyed all by themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by NEGRILJAIL
And what of the groundskeepers who makes the place look nice to create the atmosphere, the painters and maintenance crew who keeps the lights on and the water flowing or the people who keep the tablecloths and napkins clean and pressed - all these folks helped to provide the dining experience that you enjoyed. The service charge was implemented as a way to allow all those folks to benefit, and not just the person who had the interaction with their patrons.
Jamaican payroll accounting software include the calculations for the service charge, so once the data is entered for the purchase, the service charge is calculated and at the end of the pay period, everyone shares in the benefit with a very minimal amount of time required to administer the allocation. It is a rather painless procedure...
My wife is the operations director at a dinner theatre here and they do the pooled tip thing here. Its only fair in my opinion as the support staff setup the servers on the floor to be successful. In Jamaica if someone provides outstanding service I recognize the efforts accordingly. To us it may not seem like a lot but those tips can make the difference for some. I am just glad that I am able to provide the reward for their hard work.
we'll just have to agree to disagree .. i see absolutely no reason ..with good service and a tip of 20% ..to have to shell out 1500 ja on a 5000 ja bill..I do however expect menu prices to reflect ambiance ..gardening .. chef skills ..etc etc etc ..
service charges keep workers wages down .. it (service charge) is a collective and assumes that every aspect (worker) is equally adept and efficient ... see socialism/communism ...a good chef should receive a must larger base salary than a good waiter/ess ..the good waiter/ess more than the janitor ..otherwise where's the incentive ? just sayin'
Itemized or not you are still paying their wages as a paying customer.... So what is there really to hate?Quote:
Originally Posted by NEGRILJAIL
Knowing that people really depend upon the tourism for their income, I try to tip fairly. I don't always spend that much on drinks and meals out, but what I will do before I go home is seek out a favorite server or barmaid at the beach bar I spend time at and slip them $5, 10 or 20 not for service at that time but "Just Because."
It never hurts to be nice to those who are nice to you. :)
NegrilJail,
The service charge is a statutory 10%, so on a ja$5000 tab, the service charge is ja$500 - if you choose to pay an extra $1000 - that is up to you.
As for the socialism/communism comment, I notice that you are from Canada. Being Canadian, you have universal healthcare provided by all citizens by the government. I am curious, do you refuse to use the Canadian healthcare system since it is essentially socialism/communism? Just asking...
Rob thank you for the straight up info. I like knowing that everyone gets a share and tipping for good service on top of that makes sense to me.
Don't want to hijack the thread but every country has forms of socialism, including the USA. Education, Fire Departments, Police etc.. Some more than others that's all. Do Americans refuse fire protection because it's essentially a form of socialism? That an abosolutely terrible arguement!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Craig123,
Exactly. Jamaica decided years ago to implement a small policy that the government felt would allow more of its citizens to benefit from the tourism industry. They did it in such a way that all employees benefit and still leaves room for individual effort to be rewarded. The government felt it was a win-win situation.
NegrilJail feels that the policy is unjust because it has socialist/communistic effect. I was just pointing out that even in his country, there are socialism/communism policies at work, and to maybe not judge the Jamaican policies so harshly...
Thanks Craig ... nuff said ..Rob ..where do you think the government gets the money ? we pay them instead of insurance companies is all ..
furthermore ..in principle ..so i pay 500 ja on my bill so that the gardener will garden ..the janitor will clean ..the waiter/ess will serve ..and the chef will cook ??? ..reminds me of the former USSR where the people pretended to work ..and the government pretended to pay them ...
okay enough political jargon ..sorry i always end up rolling that way ..it's in my genes ..poly-sci major ..lol ..go figure
So Rob ... do you know the going rate for lobster direct from the fishermen ? have a bbq at my rental .. fish ?
Thanks ..and definitely no disrespect ..
I'm with you Rob. Unfortunately, sometimes people are more interested in right vs. left than they are with right vs. wrong.
NegrilJail,
The gardener is already paid to garden, the bartender to tend bar, the waitstaff to serve, the janitor paid to clean, the chef paid to cook, etc... The business already pays them for those services. The government does not pay them, the business does. The government does not pretend to pay them, the business pays them. Jamaicans dont pretend to work, they work. If they dont, they are fired and replaced. I really cannot see the logic in your statement. At best it is comparing apples and oranges.
Your service charge does not pay their wages. They already receive a wage. The service charge is a fee the business collects that is shared and is above and beyond the hourly employee wages. The government does not touch the service charge. If the business adds a service charge, the government allows the business to do so as long as it is implemented in accordance to the law.
The service charge was implemented so that all the employees from the business get to share in a partial tip since they are all responsible for making that experience happen. This can actually be an incentive for all the employees since they can all feel that their work is appreciated above and beyond their normal wage. The individual tip that you give your bartender, waiter or housekeeper is theirs to keep without sharing.
I do not see how that is in any way, shape or form like the former Soviet Union.
I for one like the system. I think it is great that the groundskeepers and front desk etc who all work hard too, get a little of compensation. We can't tip everyone individually and they all work to make the places we go beautiful. Then I can also tip the waitstaff and housekeeping extra for their services. There are lots of behind the scene or not right there people who work at hotels, restaurants etc.
You know we are all guests in their country and if this is a way for everyone to share in the profits of my visiting paradise then I am fine with that. The locals welcome us with open arms and a warm smile. I for one think that is worth something. As I stated previously we do that at the theatre here as the servers aren't the only one's responsible for the experince that we have. Same thing with the hotel, I tip waitresses, bartenders and the ladies who clean our room. I have a local who drives me around and he is like family. For the weeks that we are there I ensure he and his wife live like royalty and do everything that we do. Its the least that I can do for the love and caring they show us while we are there. I love Jamaica, calculate how much I want to spend, and darn well make sure all of its spent while we are there! :)
Nice post, Crusher!! :)
Well in the past I felt I was 'entitled' to certain things just because I could afford to travel to Jamaica and pay for a room. The minute I stepped off the Resort and actually learned a bit about the country my feeling of entitlement subsided. I stay on the beach, frequent local establishments and try to help those that I consider family as much as I can. I am blessed to be allowed to vacation in such a wonderful place and if my money is the one thing that can show my appreciation then they are welcome to it. I can always earn more.
Thanks for the comment Bnewb.
I do not patronize the places that add a "service charge." I tip straight to the person who I wish to tip for service provided.
^ but doesn't that really limit the places you can frequent?
Most definitely limits you...and eliminates a lot of great places too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Homebrewer
okay okay ..nuff said ..my 2 cents invariably gets made into change ..it is what it is ..just an opinion is all .. i'll pay the service charge ..and tip ..
no problem mon ..
Thanks for the info. This is what I suspected. Glad to have it confirmed.
Not fair you threw the white flag before I had a chance to add my two cents again you cheap a$$. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by NEGRILJAIL
i love crushers attitude tword the whole thing. and rob is right. bottom line. hehe opinion is amazing tho... dont be afraid to be opinionated.
Big up Crusher!
A lot of it is so that you'll be more likely to be willing to separate with some of your money...Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusher
Don't kid yourself, a service charge doesn't create an incentive to provide great service, because at the end of the day they're charging it regardless of the service performed.
Can customers dispute the service charge if the service sucks? If not, then it's a mandatory tax that should be factored in by everyone that decides whether to eat out or not.
At the end of the day:
The business pays the employees and charges accordingly for the food.
I see it more as a tourist tax/trap to get more money from people that want to visit a country and support the local economy. I would rather see higher prices on the menu rather than have to calculate another tax into the meal cost, but maybe I'm alone on that line of thinking.
Call it what you want, sugar coat it as much as you want, but a service tax is just another way for the business owner to not have to provide transparent pricing.
It's already bad enough in the US and we don't have service charges in ADDITION to tipping the servers.
I have no problem saying I love Jamaica, I love the people in Jamaica, and I love the food in Jamaica but also saying I hate the tipping culture both in Jamaica and in the US and I've worked in and run restaurants.
I've been around the tipping culture in the US for a long time and can't stand it anymore.
OK ...in Jamaica it's not a tip it's charity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
"And now abideth the three..Faith, Hope and Charity. And the greatest of these is Charity"
I always add a tip for my server. I am treated well by them and I like to reciprocate. I have seen them put the tips into a container and then they share it at the end of the day - and that's OK to me. There are so many people working whom we do not meet that they should receive a little extra too. I don't think that the wages are very high and since prices have increased I really don't know how some people manage. Perhaps I just like to help people but there's nothing wrong with that either.
Can we not sugar coat tipping?Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind
I spend plenty of money on charities working to change the world for the better and to make things better, when I start getting a tax write-off (not that I care about one when it comes to actual charities) for dining or supporting the local economy in Jamaica I'd agree it's a "charity".
I'm all about supporting Jamaicans and paying for great service, I disagree that we should be strong armed into it or guilt tripped into "donating" twice after a meal!
Do you enjoy charities where you're being hit up every other minute you spend around the charity or one that understands you don't need to constantly give,give,give?!?
Do you enjoy giving twice for the service received?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLP
I agree that their wages are probably not very high, but at the end of the day that's also the case in the US.
Believe it or not the US isn't a paradise where everyone gets paid well for services rendered, I'd say that in certain sectors like restaurants US employees live day to day, much like in Jamaica.
I like to help people as well, that doesn't mean we should be FORCED to help people, if we want to tip the cook we can, there shouldn't be a mandatory "service" fee.
FYI Blake...in case you don't know...
the average/minimum wage in jamaica is approximately $50.00us a week for a 40 hour work week...