Thank you so much for clarification Accompong. Much appreciated, have a blessed day!
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Rob, I have a question. Is there times when travel is more bothersome for the Jamaican workers, children leaving school. You know like rush hour in the states when tourist should avoid use of the taxis to keep from causing problems. Could this be another option. Like most of the workers might get off at approximately 4PM. And the children get out of school at like 3PM. Just a thought.
I tend to charter a route taxi, and pay a few dollars more. About three-five dollars more.
You can tell just by driving by. I always tell the driver to make it a charter, however please pick up the ladies who are working real jobs along the way. No dudes as it keeps the worry down. I have met all sorts of wonderful hardworking ladies along the way. Mostly hotel workers and my all time favorite a country girl selling some fruit.
For me, it's not a matter of price that determines if I use a route taxi. It's simply a matter of convenience. Use caution with any taxi. Either one could be a stolen vehicle with a driver with bad intentions. ALWAYS trust your gut.
Experienced travelers can get into bad situations using any transit system, regardless of whether it was "designed" for locals or visitors.
Sorry but I don't get why it's not a fair comparison to say route taxis are the equivalence to US Bus systems. Should I be outraged against people using our local transportation solutions because they're "designed" for locals?
The harsh reality is that private transport can often be way more confusing and more expensive than the route taxis, at least with the route taxis the fee is published so the tourists know what they're getting into.
Tourism makes up a huge chunk of the Jamaican economy, there needs to be a system in place to move tourists around that is safe and cost effective. Chartering a private taxi can be just as dangerous as taking a route taxi and MUCH more expensive, especially as a solo traveler.
If it's "dangerous" to take the local transportation system that needs to be addressed and changed, and not by discouraging people to use the local system.
Also I have to ask is this kind of topic not a conflict of interest for you? Just curious because if drivers advertise with you on your site it would obviously be in your best interest to push private transportation instead of route taxis. If you aren't taking any advertising money from drivers then my apologies, but it's always best to keep conflicts of interest out of a discussion IMO.
I don't see any conflict.
I love red plate cars so much I'm buying another one
Cap
Blake,
I am assuming you know nothing of what transpired late last year to experienced Negril veterans, Hussyband & his wife, using what they thought was a normal route taxi. I am sorry that they have to relive this event by having it reposted here, but apparently it is necessary. Here is a link to their direct encounter, which we are glad they shared to let others become aware of the extra risks involved in using a system that you are not familiar:
http://negril.com/forum/showthread.p...put#post112924
I then started a new thread explaining that there are extra risks involved when using the local route taxi system that a visitor to the island was not raised using. If you grew up using the system and were taught the "runninngs" as a child by your parents and teachers, it is not a dangerous system. You will instinctively know which taxis to take and not to take because you have had years and years of daily experience using it.
http://negril.com/forum/showthread.p...put#post112959
I grew up in America, Ohio to be exact, and in all those 34 years I never encountered anywhere across the 48 contiguous states a mass transit system that consisted of individual small cars/vehicles like the local, rural route taxi system used in Jamaica. In America I have used, buses, trolleys and trains, but the only time I rode in anything like a route taxi was when I flagged down or called a privately operated taxi cab. And they are not part of any states' mass transit system. Therefore there is no fair comparison.
A fair comparison would be with the buses with bus stops that operate in larger cities like Kingston and Montego Bay, and no one would say a word about you using that system - it is mass transportation set up for everyone to use. But, that type of a service is not an option for the rural areas of the island such as Negril. And that is why the route taxi system was created, so the local populace would have a way to get around since most of the population do not own vehicles.
Once tourism began to take off in Jamaica in the 50's - it quickly became apparent that the route taxis in rural areas were not sufficient for the needs of visitors to the island. And by the 60's the first transportation system designed specifically with tourists in mind became available. JUTA was the first, and there are now many JTB trained and authorised associations set up to handle the needs of our visitors.
Having a list of drivers to call is not that difficult of a process. Their numbers are listed, you call them when you're about ready to head out and they come to where you are and pick you up. This is a rather simple procedure. And as Hussyband has mentioned, the cost difference for them turned out to be nil. They noticed no difference in price.
And I dont know where you got your opinion from, but according to Index Mundi tourism makes up 5% of the Jamaican GDP - which is rather small and not the "huge chunk" you claim it to be. The service industry makes 60%, so that would be the huge chunk, not tourism.
http://www.indexmundi.com/jamaica/economy_profile.html
And if you use Gerry's guesstimate figures of us$2 billion in 2013, and compare that to Google's Jamaican GDP for 2012, you still end up with tourism making up about one seventh of the GDP. One seventh has never been known to be a huge chunk. If so, I would like to split the cost of a case of Red Stripe with you and give you the "huge chunk" of it... (grin)
And Captaind realises that there is no conflict of interest because his son is a route taxi operator as well as Michael's On-Time Taxi who advertises with us and provides private charter taxi services for visitors to Negril.
The reality, not being so harsh, is that by calling any of the drivers listed in our transportation section, whom we know personally, you will minimize the chance of anything bad happening. You can also feel safe by calling any of the JUTA, JCal or Maxi operators - but be sure that they are indeed members in good standing in those associations. We do take the time to verify all the drivers in our transportation section. Accidents can always happen, but there is no chance that any of these folks will rob you. None. Zero.
If you dont care about minimizing your risks when you can at virtually no additional hassle or cost, by all means jump into any random route taxis that comes along. But facts being facts, even Jamaicans dont do that - they travel with drivers they know from their years of daily experience using the route taxi system. And that experience is something no visitor to the island has....
It is up to you, but one of the nice things about learning is that you can learn from others. You dont have to put your hand in a flame to know it will be burned. Take a lesson from Hussyband and even Smith now, you dont have to have something bad happen to you using a system that was not designed for you when you know it has already happened to others...
If you want to call this all a conflict of interest just because we have responsible transportation advertisers, so be it.
It is up to you how much your safety and peace of mind means to you. If a few dollars is too much, that is your choice. But you cannot say that you were not warned in advance if something bad happens. We want everyone to have the most beneficial, accurate and useful information to make their vacation the best possible!
Step one: Get a driver and a phone
Step two: Call your driver
Repeat as necessary
It will cost more....yes.... a bit
For a chauffeur?
You are on vacation aren't you?
Rob you hit the nail, in the US public trans is large-capacity buses trains etc. traveling specific routes with specific stops, on a timed schedule; not a comparable to the JA route taxi system at all, even tho both are called 'Public Transportation'.
Having read through that post, it wasn't a "normal" route taxi and it could have happened to anyone even taking a taxi from outside a restaurant and even with the right tags. A stolen car is a stolen car, unless you're using a driver you know personally it's impossible to know whether the driver is legitimate.
That doesn't mean you stop using the system, because if the system is NOT safe it should NOT exist. How many incidents other than the one last year involved a route taxi robbing it's passenger? Now compare that to how many visitors to Negril use the route taxis, frankly if you look at the numbers it's nothing but fear mongering to say if you use a route taxi you will be robbed, hell if you walk down the road you could get robbed.
Very informative thread, I still believe that telling visitors to not use the route taxis is brushing the problems under a mat and ignoring it. Route Taxis are a convenient way to get around Negril, especially if you're by yourself. Chartered taxis are NOT the same price or even close to the same price as route taxis.
The thing is that Negril does NOT have a bus system like the US, they have route taxis or "chartered" taxis, it would be ridiculous for me to tell visitors to the US to only use Yellow Cab taxis for ALL of their needs, because it's significantly more expensive than the bus system.
Just like using the drivers you recommend is much more expensive than using route taxis. Hell I don't feel comfortable using drivers in Negril BECAUSE the rates are not static, if Negril can learn from the US is that rates for taxis need to be static so that visitors to the island(especially rookies) are not getting screwed.
The reality is that you're making money off of drivers listed in your transportation section, so I can't help but feel your view is slanted towards promoting private drivers. You are seen as a voice of information on all things Negril, so I kindly ask that you stay unbiased when it comes to things like route taxis, the odds of an incident happening are extremely minimal and the incident you linked wasn't even for a Negril Taxi. Those thugs could have robbed people walking down the road and hopped into their car afterwards, the end result would have been the same and no route taxi would have been involved.
Should people not walk down the street for the fear of getting robbed?
Either Negril is safe to visit or it isn't safe to visit, telling people to only take private taxis like JUTA or the transportation drivers you showcase is essentially telling people that the local transportation system isn't safe enough for them.
What's next? Only eating at "approved" restaurants? Only using "approved" travel services?
Sorry, but I look at an incident and then look at overall statistics, yes there will always be robberies happening, but if it doesn't happen on route taxis it will happen on the streets as you walk to the entrance of the hotel.
Just my opinion, I'm not going to stop using route taxis because of fear mongering, especially when the only alternative IS more expensive and just as shady with "haggling" required just to get a reasonable price.
I'm not against the route taxis, although I believe it depends on "who" is in the car, what you have in your possession .. if you're flashing jewellery and smart duds, I-pads and fancy phones, then you are best to use your feet or a proper tourist cab. To go from point A to B with a bathing suit and a towel, maybe A ok.
Heck it costs $4.50 just to get into a cab from my city before the wheels start to turn and there is a big red button on the back of the cab if the driver gets into trouble, it flashes and says "call police."
When we are talking about a "reasonable" rate for tourists, I don't think $10.00 or $20.00 is bad to go downtown Negril, do your shopping, have a cabby stay and wait for you, maybe go to the ATM and drop you back to your door.
And, the drinks are cheaper in JA .. when you add all this in including the cab for an evening out it would be 3x that amount where I'm from.
Heck my own car costs me $25.00/day with lease, gas, insurance and maintenance.
When I've used a rout taxi, I offer them $300 anyway for a one-way ride .. I have no purse with me .. I plan it out .. and I don't go far.
If you suspect something, just say you feel sick and you're going to throw up lol .. they'll stop the car fast ;-)
Blake,
As I have stated, here is my quote from that exact same question already asked:
"...Believe what you want and travel how you want. But to answer your question, I have heard of too many incidents around the island involving tourists, even though one is still too many.
Negril is a rather small town with a population hovering around 5000 and receives lesser numbers of visitors to the island than MoBay or Ocho Rios, so the number of incidents here are relatively small. But there have been incidents reported all around the island, in Hanover (not Negril), several in St James, a few more in the north coast areas and of course Kingston. "
There have been incidents happening to Jamaicans using unfamiliar route taxis. Some have ended up much worse than a robbery.
The point of Negril.com, the reason I created it back in 1995, was to promote Negril in such a way that visitors to the island would be given the best information available to make their vacation the best possible.
Being in the position of knowing that incidents have increased around the island last year and also owning and operating Negril.com does put me in a difficult position. There is no doubt about that. But I do feel that it is time to take the stance that there are inexpensive and easy options to using the route taxi system. Just as when I started Negril.com, we didnt warn about walking the beach at night because there were very few if any problems. But in the last 20 years, that has changed and we now recommend not to walk in the unlit areas of the beach at night. It is simply not a smart thing to do. Of course you can do it and people still do, but you are increasing your risk factor.
I now feel the same about the visitors using unfamiliar route taxis as more incidents occurred last year and one exact example from Negril veterans has been relayed here for all to learn from. It is not fear mongering, it is more of a case of a common sense safety issue. For visitors, I no longer can feel comfortable advising them to use a system that they are not familiar with and that was not designed to transport them in the first place.
You can think I am biased all you want. And if you define being biased as providing the best safety information possible to make all of our visitors have the best vacation possible, then I will wear that biased badge proudly. But the fact of the matter is that we have route taxi drivers advertising with us to provide charter taxi services for our visitors.
Can the system be improved? Of course it can. Can standard rates be set and enforced for charter drivers? Possibly but very unlikely since Jamaica is one of the most capitalistic societies on the planet. Will there be a true mass transit system set up for Negril in the future? Of course there will be. But until that happens, just as until the unlit areas of the beach are lit up at night, I cannot responsibly recommend that visitors to our island use a route taxi system of which they have little or no knowledge.
Blake - now a question for you - how many, what percentage of visitors to Negril would read and know what the "Lilliput" marking on the route taxi meant and would know not to use that route taxi? The percentage of Jamaicans in Negril who would know not to get into that route taxi would be very close to 100%. If you feel the percentage of visitors would be rather small, then you know the reason why I do not feel comfortable recommending visitors using the route taxi system.
Perhaps it's time for Negril to consider improving the transit system in place then, if the only SAFE solution for visitors is to take private cabs, that's not a solution, it's a bandaid and results in only a few "reliable" cab drivers being used.
Why is it so hard to have set prices for the services rendered? I would NEVER run a business where I was not upfront with my customers about the prices for services/products rendered. If cab drivers want to be taken seriously they need to set prices that are easy for customers to understand instead of hoping that the customer doesn't want to negotiate their "stated" rates.
I would say about the same percentage of people visiting the DC area region that are familiar with the taxi cab system, zones,bus systems, or whatever mode of transportation they choose to use.
YES, there are risks associated with each transportation system, that doesn't mean they should be considered UNSAFE to use by visitors. People get mugged on buses in the US, that doesn't mean I won't advocate taking a bus because the inherent risk is minimal once you put it in perspective of the number of people using said transportation systems.
In my opinion you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater by saying route taxis aren't safe based on "incidents" that are newsworthy, they're newsworthy because they are NOT an everyday occurrence.
Please consider it logically, even if every single person visiting Negril uses private cabs it will just "force" the bad apples to change how they operate, instead of being robbed in a cab they'll be robbed waiting for the cab.
The "Lilliput" cab was most likely stolen, even if it was a Negril cab locals or visitors would not necessarily be safe knowing where the cab is from.
How many incidents would you say have occurred on the entire island in the past year out of the 3 millions of visitors to Jamaica?
Considering past "Disscusions" of this very subject, has anyone here considered that this very thread "I love route taxis" may have been placed here to instigate people into more "Disscusions" and create more controversy?
Smith744, I think we need more popcorn. :)
Lighten up people...
One Love
Once you answer my question on what % of tourists would read, know and understand never to get into that Lilliput route taxi in Negril with an actual number instead of some vague reference to Washington DC, then I will answer your question.
And by the way, it was 2 million visitors in one year for the first time last year. Not 3 million.... (grin)
If you need a flat answer, probably 0% because it's irrelevant, the Lilliput route taxi could have been a stolen taxi, it could have been a stolen red plate taxi, it shouldn't make a difference what the plates of the route taxi say. If they're not being regulated enough to provide SAFE transportation for visitors yet they're safe for locals, then something needs to be done.
Sorry but if the only safe transportation you're advocating is private taxis in negril, then tourism is going to suffer considerably.
I for one view isolated incidents as being isolated incidents, if it's as big of a problem as you're making it out to be then there needs to be considerable changes.
The Zero % is exactly why I cannot in good faith recommend a route taxi when pretty much 100% of Jamaicans would know not to get in that taxi. The problem is not the system, it was designed for the local populace and the local populace know how to use it. Visitors to the island, we both agree, do not.
I am suggesting that visitors to Jamaica use the transportation system designed specifically with them in mind. It is really that simple. And as Hussyband has pointed out (as well as others), the private charter taxis are not that much more expensive or that much more inconvenient.
And islandwide I do not know the exact number as I am not the keeper of these statistics but have already related the several incidents that I know about to you in a previous post. And that number is enough to make me make this recommendation and to no longer recommend that visitors use the route taxis system since we both acknowledge they have not enough experience with.
Instead of the back and forth bickering, wouldn't energy be better served compiling a list of taxis who offer charter services in town. The transportation section has a lot of drivers, however a lot of them are tour/airport transfer drivers. Maybe a daytime list and an evening list.
"probably 0% because it's irrelevant"? Why is that not relevant? First of all the plates of a route taxi don't say Lilliput the route designation on the side of the vehicle (and sometimes elsewhere) say "To and From locations and Via if a larger town or stop is located somewhere between" as the plates are just Red in Color with numbers. You can have a vehicle that says Lilliput on the side that is no longer a Red Plate because the vehicle was sold to a private party that uses it as a private "White Plate" vehicle.
A local person who was taking a Route Taxi first looks for a Red Plate and probably assumes that if it is a Red Plate then it should be going on that designated route and then check to see if the to and from destinations encompass where they pick it up at. If a Red Plate pulled up and to a local on Norman Manley Blvd and it said Lilliput on the side, they probably wouldn't enter the vehicle. I think that is what Rob means and, yes that is relevant to the discussion.
I don't think anyone would argue that there needs to be considerable changes if tourists want to use this system on a regular basis. It was designed for local use and works quite well in most areas of Jamaica. If you are outside the "tourist areas" you rarely see a tourist riding in a Route Taxi anyways.
When a criminal wants to perpetrate a crime on a tourist they obviously would want to take a rural (Lilliput) taxi into a tourist area like Negril to do so. Kind of like a duck hunter wouldn't go to the desert to hunt ducks would they? Of course not. They would go to the lakes where the ducks are.
Peace and Guidance
Sorry, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I frankly can't see how you feel route taxi's aren't safe without empirical evidence to back it up.
"That" Taxi could have been a stolen negril taxi, the outcome would have been the same and no amount of experience would change that.
I would have no problem using charter taxis/regular taxi's IF the prices were clearly stated BEFORE getting in the car like it is in the US, the bait and switch taxi cab drivers perform along with the haggling can be downright uncomfortable, especially at night when you just want to get back to your hotel safely.
Are you opposed to a bus system for Negril for travelers? If one theft occurs will you no longer promote the hypothetical bus service? What about if a driver on your list decided to rob a passenger? Would you stop promoting your list based on ONE incident?
Extrapolating incidents to make them appear like it's unsafe to take route taxis would be like saying the US isn't a safe place to live based on the gun usage, it's making the situation appear worse than it really is.
Heck, I could see a commuter shuttle/bus system that goes back and forth between the cliffs and beaches being a possible solution to the current system which uses individual cars, but that would put a lot of red plate drivers out of business in an effort to provide a "safe" solution to visitors/local transportation.
Smith had a wonderful guide on here a few years ago. Not sure if it is still around.
I get Rob's point. I would not recommend a new visitor use a route taxi.
But this board has discussions of illegal drug use, cliff jumping, and scooter rentals, all of which, IMO, are much more dangerous than a route taxi ride. And when someone mentions those activities, they do not seem to get shouted down in the same way as this topic does. Is this topic off limits? It seem that way.
The topics like you listed are all things where the tourist inflicts the harm upon themselves whereas a Route Taxi inflicts the damage on the tourist in some maner.
"Shouted down" seems unfair. People can discuss things without emotions taking over. This seems pretty tame to me. If you lived in Jamaica like I do you would see more "shouting down" during a domino game!
No it is not off limits and yes, Smith is still around. You can see his ramblings all over the board. Do a search on his name at the top.
Peace and Guidance
Ok, any discussion of route taxis aside. You are making the comparison that a site which makes it's living from advertisers and advertising is promoting a conflict of interest by driving readers to those that advertise? Is there some misapprehension that the board owners do this out of the goodness of their heart, paying what I can only imagine are not cheap hosting fees, administrative costs, and general board upkeep?
I know a membership on the board to chat is free, but I highly doubt running the thing is free. This is not a news outlet where the editors or owners are held to the same ethics or standards as the press (which is kind of laughable nowadays anyway), it's a company someone created as their livelihood.
I know everyone has stated how sorry that this happen to them, (Hussyband & his wife) but this is my first time reading about this. I know his anger for threatening his wife could not be weighed. But I am sorry for what happened. And hope your love of this location hasn't lessened. Or that something great has happen in your lives to help deal with the tragedy.
There is a significant difference between driving the readers to the advertisers and promoting them as the SAFE way to travel by making it sound as if you taking a route taxi will result in you getting robbed.
You're right, there is no expectation of a website owner being required to hold to the same ethics or standards as the press(which I agree is laughable) but when a website owner states that it is unsafe to take route taxis and then promotes drivers who pay him to advertise, it makes me do a double take at what I'm reading.
Blake....what don't you get
Negril.com is not driving anyone anywhere. Facts are facts.
My son's route is Negril to Green Island. When he runs the route he's known to most of his riders and they trust him. There are taxis that they wont get into because they don't know the driver or if it's overloaded. If you get in a gypsy cab in Las Vegas you're taking the same kind of chance.
Remember that 99.5% of visitors riding in the taxi doesn't understand one word of what's being said. Do you understand patois?
Years ago there were no route cabs and visitors mostly didn't leave they yard they were staying in.
So now visitors roam all over Negril as big as it's become. To get to the point.......
Negril.com is trying to point out the most comfortable way for a visitor to get around
You should stick to things you know about
BTW..there's a name for a visitor who will take up a route cab seat to save 1.00US.....cheap Charlie
Blake do you have some skin in the route taxi business? If you want to use them, its your choice. It has been discussed plenty that the cost of charter service is reasonable when it is for 2 or more people.
A single person does not by default get a hotel room for half price...
Blake,
You're pointless protests are becoming tiring. You have the luxury of not having to be responsible for anything other than your own opinion. I, on the other hand have some 50 to 60 thousand unique readers this month to provide helpful, useful and beneficial information to help make their hard earned vacation time the best possible.
This is not a joke for me or Negril.com. This has to do with our 20 year reputation and making our visitors have the best time possible. If we presented anything other than accurate, beneficial and helpful advice, we would cease to exist...
As I have said, go ahead and take any taxi you want. But if something bad happens to you, the onus is on you now, and you have no one to blame but the person you see in the mirror....
No, like Rob said, I don't have any skin in the game, which is why I feel it's important for people like me to point out how ridiculous it is to say route taxis aren't safe, based on ONE event.
Hopefully you will remember all of this when you make blanket statements saying things like route taxis aren't safe.
I've said my peace, I'm not going to sit here going back and forth over whether route taxis are safe or not, I just hope people are able to make their own informed decision based on evidence instead of based on what people say is safe or not.
You can run your site the way you see fit, I'm merely stating I feel you're portraying route taxis unfairly and that there is a conflict of interest because you do take money from private drivers.
Classy, so because I refuse to use private drivers if I were to become a victim it would be my fault.
Maybe you should take a long look in the mirror if you start to think blaming victims makes sense.
No. But I don't understand Indonesian, Thai, or Vietnamese either, but was able to use public transportation just fine in all of those countries.
I see no help in name calling here, Captaind.
100% agree.
We have been approx 12 trips to Negril since 1993 and I am just learning in the last 2 yrs from this sight to take red plated taxi only and how the taxi system works. We have always offered about 7 dollars to take us(2adults and child) from White Sands to Xtabi, have never had anyone say no and have always hoped it was enough. I may have taken a charter and not known because last year was the only time I really paid attention and made sure it was a route and red plated taxi. Now after reading this year about the crime involving route taxi and how I should really be using charter I would like to know more about how to spot a charter. I am assuming if it is red plated and doesn't say route taxi that it is a charter? It would be helpful if a charter taxi would come and post here stating what his fare is from point A to point B. I know how this can be difficult as many locations to pick up and drop off but really would help those of us that want to ride safe and be paying a fair price. We never have phone to call so just start walking and wait for red plate to stop. Do charters just cruise around like the routes looking for someone to pick up? Many cars stopping and honking to see if you need ride so I first look to see if it has red plate so now must I make sure it doesn't say route? Ohh just when I think I have it down 😳
Any route taxi that doesn't have a passenger already on board is a potential "charter" and some will "charter" after leaving off the passenger.
For the most part, they don't cruise around looking for charters but will rarely turn one down as beating the heck out of your car to go back and forth a bazillion times is pointless if you can make a day's wages or more with one comfortable trip.
There are some "recommended" prices for charters to certain destinations but feel free to barter for a good price. Nothing wrong with saving a buck or two and if it is too likkle I am sure the taxi driver will let you know and offer a higher price.
Peace and Guidance
Yes, David.
Hard for anyone who hasn't lived in the country outside of Negril to really appreciate just how much difference there is between a fair standard of living and the regular tourist's standard of living. You can tell a Jamaican all day and night that you don't have any money but he sees you staying in $100+ US a night hotels and paying $500 or more for a ticket to get there.
Yes, gerry..... you should know better.
Peace and Guidance