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Oh I want to amend those last three words. It also includes a fruit vendor who refused to give me change after a purchase as well as the bracelet guy, who upon seeing me for the first time on a recent trip, started yelling at me from 10 feet away because I did not purchase a bracelet on my previous trip. I could go on with the examples. Is this the normal way to conduct business in Jamaica? Do I need to get on the relativism bandwagon?
And by the way, I think the begging and higgling on the beach has decreased significantly since the Jetskis were banned.
And I would be very disappointed if they didn't ask...more often annoyed when I can't find the vendor on the beach that I'm looking for...pepper shrimp guy and popcorn man are never around when I want a snack...lol...love those guys!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipadelphia26
Not really an attitude that helps much in the promotion of tourism.Quote:
Originally Posted by booger
Wha,Quote:
Originally Posted by wha gwan
I sympathize with your situation and frustration, that is why Bnewb started this thread and it was posted here. The article and survey are applicable to Negril and elsewhere in the world. Please fill out the survey and help become part of the solution.
But I take exception to those who havent shared your's and HarryS' experience essentially being labeled liars. Their lack of being harassed is equal to your experiences. Just because they arent hassled doesnt mean there is no harassment any more than your being harassed means everyone is harassed. Each persons experience is equally valid.
What happened to you, by anyone's definition is harassment. No one can logically argue against that. I also stated that HarryS and/or his wife being touched when not wanting to be touched is also unacceptable. That would be harassment as well. While the transparent sales technique of hand holding is harassment if you dont want to be touched, it is not an intimidation tactic, but a sales tactic. Label it for what it is, dont fabricate some motive behind a blatantly obvious sales tactic.
And HarryS said " I'm a New Yorker. One who has friends in Harlem and used to take the subway there and home at 3 and 4am, never bothered once because I know how to carry myself. You know, that was an area back when I used to go (151st and Bdwy) where they would tell white people "don't be there after dark". I never, not once, in years, had a single problem."
To me, having spent time in NYC, this does define a "NY way". There would be no reason for him to write it otherwise. He wanted us all to know he knows the NY way.
I am not sure how first time visitors (read the latest trip report) can have such a great time and little hassles as do countless others, and yet two separate repeat New York visitors are having such an incredibly hard and harassed time. I am not sure, but perhaps the condescending "(relatively speaking, wink, wink)" may or may not have revealing qualities.
And I cannot even imagine what would cause a "bracelet guy" to remember someone and yell at them on their first day back from 10 feet away. Hundreds of visitors dont buy from him and other bracelet vendors everyday and I have never heard of this happening before....
I for one appreciate Bnewb & your efforts to have this discussion.
I also have only described some of my not so pleasant experiences and have not doubted or challenged other members opinion. I fail to see how I have labeled other people as liars. I do not think that it is a fair or thoughtful comment on my contribution to this discussion. Nor have I implied that everyone is harassed or all my experiences involve harassment.
If you interpreted my (relatively speaking, wink, wink) as being condescending to you, then I must apologize since that was not my intention. It was a (failed!) attempt at sarcasm.
"And I cannot even imagine what would cause a "bracelet guy" to remember someone and yell at them on their first day back from 10 feet away." Makes me laugh just thinking about it! Signing off...
Wha,
This is an important topic and that is why we have the survey and article linked. We also want the topic to remain as real as possible.
One of the first things HarryS did was challenged other members, going as far as saying that they are in denial which by definition means their statement is something not true.
When you said "HarryS is 100% spot on, from his critique of blaming the tourist when they are harassed to the transparent methods of the higglers!", I took that to mean that you were agreeing with what he was saying 100% including calling other members liars.
I must thank you now for clarifying that you do not 100% agree with HarryS being spot on with his comments.
Sarcasm is often a tough thing to make clear on the Internet, thanks for the apology but it is unnecessary for me as I never thought for a moment you were being condescending towards me.
And the bracelet thing makes me scratch my head more than laugh...
Thanks again for clearing things up.
Begging has decreased since the jet skis were *banned*????? lol.
I guess I imagined the guy every 15 feet trying to sell jetski rides along with everything else.
Flip, The total vibe of the beach has changed for the better, without the jet skis. But maybe you used the wrong word "begging". I agree there seems to be less hassling without the Jetski promotions. Now if they would only control the horses!
Please clarify your point....Quote:
Originally Posted by jon c.
The vibe has changed since the jet skis were given the boot, for the better. Not only do you not get hit up for a ride every 100 ft or so, you are also not getting hit up to buy coke every 100 ft or so. I prefer the West End because I like it super laid back while on vacation and the cliffs offer this. I do however enjoy the beach and the quiet that is now afforded with the jet skis gone as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by dash
And I still stand by actual experience of "harassment." Being pestered to buy **** is not harassment.......
halfwaytree. I have known you (sort of) from another venue on Jamaica and have always appreciated your insights. So Big Up to you my friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfwaytree
I can't honestly answer your question about the freelancing vs the sub contracting. Perhaps someone closer to the Negril scene like Rob or Lisa could comment as I live (as you probably know) deep in the Cockpits and rarely visit Negril area.
I have always sort of assumed that the higglers were mostly operating on their own from the few dozen I know that do just that. I have always admired the Jamaican Spirit for coming up with ways to make money when opportunities are limited.
Even after living almost a year in Seaview Gardens Phase II in Kingston I wouldn't venture to say I know "exactly" how things run there either but it is certainly a different dynamic when mostly Jamaicans are in a group compared to adding tourists to the mixture.
You have me thinking about this and now I want to find out for myself how the higglers run in Negril and who's palms are getting greased just to cure my own case of wanting to know more.
Thanks for your answer.
Respect.
Negril is not Kingston, and being small, things are much easier to deal with from a government level. All the legal vendors are required to be licensed to sell their wares on the beach. There are still many "freelancers" but making a living is getting more difficult for them. Because of the govt's need to repay the IMF, taxes are being squeezed from every source possible. Even trip vendors, artists and roving bands are having to become licensed. The room for "freelancers" is much more difficult to find. If one vendor has to be licensed to be on the beach, they dont look kindly on those who are taking their business without paying the license fee.
This is making even the smallest freelancers have to duck and hide when the police (and other legal vendors) do their rounds on the beach. We have seen many cases of the "freelancers" being targeted by new undercover police "vendors", basically guiding them right into the arms of the waiting uniformed officers as they both run off the beach to "hide". Quite an efficient, effective operation.
These undercover cop vendors allow the police to blend right in and see the "bad apples" discussed above in action. At opportune times, they can and do arrest the offender for tourist harassment. Once again, an efficient and effective way to get those bad apples off the beach.
Not being in the drug trade, any statement I would make here would be nothing but a best guess. But there must be a supplier and then distributors to handle the transactions. Obviously something would have to make it back to the supplier, otherwise they would stop supplying to that distributor. With the decriminalization of small amounts of herb, this will make for some kind of a legal or semi-legal market. We know of legal grow labs being built as we speak. These changes will be interesting to watch.
As for palms being greased, it is in no one's interest, politician or not, to have tourists being harassed. And if you live in Jamaica in 2015, you know the "status quo" is a moving target. Jamaica is truly a "developing" country. Things are moving at an incredible pace.
I hate to see my beloved jet skis take the blame for problems such as drug selling, prostitution, harrassement etc. The jet ski guys were always the most polite, respectful vendors that we encountered. We love to ride the fun machines and always found a great deal along the beach in Negril. Made some good friends with the operators also. I often wonder how those guys are making a living now?? I hope they are doing ok and the jet skis will be back for our enjoyment soon!
I know for a FACT, that most of the jet ski guys,at least the ones that hung by Margaritaville, are all giggilos,and hustlers, I'm sure there doing just fine selling there ''wares'' without the jet skis!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaherring
They may have banned jetskiing... but what are they gonna do when murph zips by at 80 mph!!! Brap Brap!!!!! Hahahaha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDi9uFcD7XI
Man, jojo, that's a likkle harsh on my jet ski buddies. I guess some of them may have been moonlighting, but hey, ya gotta pay da bills. They were always very helpful to us and my sons really enjoyed the jet skis.
Or this waterjet powered wakeboard:
https://youtu.be/Pz63KuMRXgU
Just calling it as I see it, I just thought it was ironic that you said it's not like there into prostitution, or drugs....I'm not a hotshot computer person like some of these peeps on this board or I wpould
post it myself, but you tube ''Rent a Dread in jamaica'', and its all the islands, not just Ja.
Single people get a whole different form of harrasement, not saying that any one form is worse than the other.
We have some favorite vendors, like Norman the pattie guy, he likes to "chat" when he's not bombarded by customers. We always patronize his business, and then the one time we had our Jamaican family stay with us for one night at NTH, Norman gave all of us free juice freezies, with our patties. Nice gesture, I thought. Yamon'
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Jaherring
He might have said that to many as a sales tactic. Perhaps he never actually remembered you at all and was trying to guilt you into buying a bracelet.Quote:
Originally Posted by wha gwan
I filled out the survey no problem. I live here because I love the people, climate and weather. My first trip was Aug 1973 and have been living here the last 2 years. I have seen it all and still feel very safe living here in red ground district, Negril. But the thing is I get begged from almost every day. I can't help everyone but I help someone out every day almost. It's just being part of the community. Even though everyone knows me I still get harrast a couple times a month. It's just part of daily life in a place I love so much. Thanks for posting the survey Lisa I just hope something positive comes from this.