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And I think that's atrocious, because clearly there is a disconnect with what the business owners charge for a meal and what they're paying their staff then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bnewb
A huge number of people in the US live below the poverty line, that doesn't affect how I feel about the tipping culture.
If the service fee isn't optional then it's not a voluntary tip, if it's not voluntary it does nothing to promote good service.
I really appreciate Rob's input on this thread!
I also wanted to share my experiences working in restaurants in the US. Your tip does not always just go to your waitstaff. As a waitress, I "tipped out" (gave a percentage of my tips) to my bartenders, bus staff and food runners. There was a required minimum for each of those individuals, although it made sense to tip out appropriately to ensure that your drinks were always ready when you needed them, etc.
At the restaurant I worked for and eventually managed there was an unofficial tip the hostesses/host stand policy... Keeping your host stand happy means they're more efficient and get you more tables. That also applies when you're going out, dropping a $5 can get you seated A LOT faster if it's really busy.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeth
I have no problem with wanting the wait staff to be paid appropriately, I just think the tipping culture is fundamentally flawed especially when service charges are added in.
Meal Cost+Tax+10% service fee+10-20% server tip= True meal cost.
Meal cost=True meal cost should be the standard.
Tipping does not guarantee better service especially when it's not a voluntary tip.
Crusher wrote
"You know we are all guests in their country and if this is a way for everyone to share in the profits of my visiting paradise then I am fine with that. The locals welcome us with open arms and a warm smile. I for one think that is worth something. As I stated previously we do that at the theatre here as the servers aren't the only one's responsible for the experince that we have. Same thing with the hotel, I tip waitresses, bartenders and the ladies who clean our room. I have a local who drives me around and he is like family. For the weeks that we are there I ensure he and his wife live like royalty and do everything that we do. Its the least that I can do for the love and caring they show us while we are there. I love Jamaica, calculate how much I want to spend, and darn well make sure all of its spent while we are there!"
Well said buddy!!!! As a fellow Saskatchawanian, and Canuck great post and great outlook! I agree with you as do most of us Canucks, Brits, and American friends! I will gladly pay 500J or whatever it takes on top of my bill for a service charge and then tip the server another 15 to 20% on top of it. Not cause I am a high-roller, but if I can make a difference and give a little extra why the hell not!! Plus almost everyone I have met who helped us and served us did so with a smile and made me feel more welcome in JA then I have been in my own country at any bar, pub, restaurant !!! A little thing like 500J shouldn't bother anyone, your in PARADISE!! relax, wind down, ENJOY!!!!!!!
Too bad you will spend your time in Jamaica being pissed off at the way it is there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
As for me and Miss G we're happy to be home and be able to pass a bit of money around.
Be happy don't worry.......
Many of the restaurants in Jamaica do not add a service charge. I can understand that the concept of a service charge added to your bill is a distasteful concept to many. You can never go wrong being kind to people you meet along the way, and be generous when you can. How many of us remember to thank the gardener that keeps the grounds looking so amazing, or the maintenance staff that cleans and fixes things up for our comfort?
Why do you assume my posting style will affect my ability to enjoy myself? I've been to Jamaica and while some stuff I see DOES piss me off it doesn't mean I can't enjoy the vacation I paid for.Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind
I'm more than happy to pass the money around, I'm not going to sit there and hand it out for no reason though, I give away a significant portion of my income to charities in the form of anonymous donations, the last thing I care about while I'm on vacation is doing charity work.
Take that as you will but at the end of the day I want to make sure I can do the most good, not just fork over whatever is demanded of me. I respect money and respect knowing where it's going.
I take my time to thank those that do a great job, and I'm generally an extremely kind and caring person(unless I get into a heated debate on internet forums with random people....), that doesn't mean I can't question things like service charges, especially when I'm not even on vacation!Quote:
Originally Posted by sunray;62722I
Would you rather people just show up and not tip extra at all when they assume the service charge includes the tip?
I tried a west end establishment that promotes itself as a high end Italian and pizza restaurant. The meal was good, but did not meet my expectations based on the high menu prices (just my subjective opinion). When the bill came it had tax and service charge added to it. I asked the manager to explain the service charge. He said it pays for such as laundering the napkins, and that it was not a tip. (He did not say it pays a stipend to the laundry workers). Needless to say, I was less than satisfied with his explanation, I left a tip for our server, and have not returned to that establishment. What's the big deal? If one doesn't like the policies of an establishment, why not choose to try something else?
Blake, I didn't know my comments entered me into "a heated debate on an internet forum with random people", nor were my general comments directed at any individual. (But this comment is directed to you).:rolleyes:
Just because it's your opinion doesn't mean you're the only one having it or that you're not right.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunray
So ladies and gentlemen what exactly is a service charge for? If the manager is lying, that's terrible customer service. If he's telling the truth, then why not name it a linen tax.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunray
The problem is that if you ask 10 Jamaicans what a service charge is for they'll give you 10 different answers.
The big deal is that you're letting them walk all over you, the big deal is that you'll never return to that establishment, which means they failed at making you a repeat customer.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunray
The big deal is that countries like Japan have incredible customer service experiences and prohibit Gratuity/service charges!
The big deal is that bad restaurants love people like you that will pay, tip, and leave; and they bank on millions more people like you coming along to keep justifying their prices, their lack of service, and to keep them afloat.
great and informative thread........nice mon
thanks to Rob and Bnewb for being on point...........and boardies
most bonafide Jamaican establishments don't walk all over their patrons.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
usually they do everything but......
the last two months mi have been in Negril twice and really enjoyed all the different establishments.....
and the ones I really enjoy a lot......the servers and bartenders get the bigger tips......
and I have no problem tipping 20+ percent on the bill/tab on top of the tax and service charge.....
afterall how many times do we go on vacation in our lifetime.......not usually very much......
so giving out a few extra dollars isn't going to break the bank for most of us.......
if it does........maybe you should wait till you have more dollars so you can really enjoy that vacation and not worrying about how much everything is going to cost you........
mi can't really expound or say enuff how much the Jamaicans really depend on your tips.......
sometimes it's the difference between being able to buy food for the family and not......
trust mi on that
Cool Runnings, Marko
Sure, but there is no correlation between good service and getting tipped. The tipping culture is actually a rarity globally, the majority of the countries provide great service and the servers don't have to worry about going to bed hungry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko
Do you tip 20%+ regardless of the service quality? If so why not just have the restaurant increase prices by 20%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko
I go on vacations quite a bit, that doesn't mean I throw logic out of the window.
It won't break the bank but I believe in fiscal responsibility, when I'm on vacation I don't worry about how much everything is going to cost but I don't believe I need to open my wallet and empty it just because I'm on vacation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko
But does that really help things in the long run? I have no problem with Jamaicans getting paid fairly and getting compensated the right way, I have a problem with tourists getting guilt tripped into opening their wallet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko
For what it's worth I spend over 30% of my post-tax profits from our company on initiatives to end hunger and promote education. I'm far from stingy when it comes to trying to help others, I just disagree that tipping is the most efficient or even a credible way to promote change.
"I just disagree that tipping is the most efficient or even a credible way to promote change."
What does leaving a tip or service charge have to do with promoting change...It is not up to us to promote change in Jamaica. i have seen too much outside influence in Jamaica in the last 20 years promoting change. It is their country and they let us visit as guest...WE all have a choice to go to one of those countries you speak of that does not have to count on a tip to not go home hungry..."I believe in fiscal responsibility" As far as fiscal responsibility here is my take...I spend most of my life managing fiscal responsibility and for two weeks out of the year I take some time off....Most of the places I dine at don't add tax or service charge...It is simply 300 J for a small box lunch or 500 for the large box...My hotel does add service charge which is split up between all employees on the property...I add a daily bump for my housekeeper, beach attendant, chef and a couple of bucks every time I get food brought to my room....I don't know if there is any connection but i always get my room done early while I am at breakfast, I get a good spot on the beach, i get an extra piece of fish on my plate and when I order food in my room I get it really fast.....Give respect and you get respect....at least it works for me....
I agree....tipping our "service people" has ALWAYS increased the level of service..whether it be, lots of fresh flowers in the room, our rooms done early and CLEAN!...and extras we have asked for, we got....the second time we return to a food service, we are given the "extra mile" in service, quality, and quantity....but that's they way we do it at home, when we go out......
But then we also "waste" our money by buying Christmas meals in restaurants for people who do look like, or seem to be unable to afford it.......
we are not "well-off" by any standards, but we feel what we give out isn't gonna make that much difference in our lives..
but might for those who seem to need it.........
and I have seen very few Jamaican service people appearing not to need it........Thank God we are all different..or nobody
would have a place to go "get away from it all"...lol
Good to remember for the next time someone says to think of it as a charity.Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Mon
My argument is that tipping doesn't benefit the people of Jamaica in the long run, a culture where they get paid fairly for the work they do with prices reflecting that pay is much better in the long run.
Respect is a two way street, it works for you because you're PAYING for that respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Mon
If you read the links I provided earlier then you would hopefully come to the same conclusion which is that you can have mutual respect without a tipping culture.
That's the thing though, studies show that tipping does NOT increase the level of service because there is NO way for the server to predict whether you're going to tip or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo
I have no problem paying my fair share and helping to pay for the wages of the employees, I just don't see any logical reason it can't be included in the price of the meal and why there is a service charge AND gratuity.
Just because we're on vacation and/or better off than other people doesn't mean we can't question why something is the way it is and point out that it's not good for the people.
I do a lot to help people that need it and put my money where it is most effective when it comes to charity work, but I guess it's never enough and that it's too much to ask for that when I'm on vacation I don't get nickle and dimed.
Again, raise the prices, get rid of the service charge, roll gratuity into the price of the meal, and the statistics will show that employees will be happier, there will be less friction when the businesses and customers interact, and it won't be the end of the world.
As a developing country I think Jamaica SHOULD strive to have the best system there is and emulate the Japanese system, even if it seems counter-intuitive and even if the tipping system seems better in the short term.
Just my opinion.
Being an opinionated pompous ass myself my wife always puts me in my place and reminds me I have a choice. I can be right.....or I can be happy......
Why can't you be right AND happy?Quote:
Originally Posted by dash
Then again being right sometimes means being unhappy when you realize the majority of people are wrong... It's quite saddening.
Wow
Blake tipping gets me better service in Canada and Ja no doubt! please speak for yourself, your probably the guy waiting for a drink at the bar whle mine is never empty. I don't worry about a service charge, we have a service tax on everything in Canada, It sucks, but I still tip for service good and bad, rarely bad. I have stood at a busy bar and never waiited long for drink anywhere, and i know my previous tipping got me that drink. Cheers
no need to read an article Blake i've seen first hand poor tippers wait for a drink many times. I hope you enjoy Japan but severs in a tipping world woud disagree with you, enjy your watered down drink while enjoy one on the house, Cheers!
I second that WOW!!
Blake...maybe start by visiting other countries, especially developing countries as is this case & more than once before you start judging their systems. To tell a WHOLE country to change or "reevaluate the business model" after one visit is incredulous...and even more so when it comes to a topic that is so far down the list of importance it's ridiculous.
And, before you continue preaching you're issue about tipping...please remember there's a lot of big business people & minds on this forum...they aren't fools!
Just a bit of food for thought!
I'm exhausted.
Are you for f'ing real??Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
ROFLMFAO
I was out of town for the weekend and am just catcing up on the board and this morning just got through the last thread on this topic that was closed.
I get home tonight and it's like I stepped into the twilight zone!
I hope when I log back in tomorrow this topic will be over!!!!!!!
Tomorrows hot topic : "Route Taxis" :)
i wouldnt mind if this one got locked too im guessing rob didnt notice there was a second on the same topic. I tryed rationalizing it on the otherone but i guess there is no pleasing that one
For obvious reasons, this thread is closed.