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M&G
Not really interested in a Jamaican account right now. Someday when our stays become longer than a week or two it will be worth the hassle. Was hoping to open a Canadian account, but no luck. I have a BOA account so I will have to check in to their reciprocity with Scotia.
Bless...
Ed
Ras,
There is no reciprocity between Scotia Canada and Scotia Jamaica. The two banks are unrelated.
Gearing up for our reach in a couple weeks - was at my credit union today. Asked about fraud coverage. They told me that if it is a pin transaction, I am not covered. Um, what? I'm only covered for credit transactions. She cheerfully told me to just use my card as credit at the places I go. No, not like that in Negril.... Maybe others knew this, but I had no idea, so I thought I'd share. Glad I asked. Making different money arrangements for this trip.
Just spoke to the gentleman at our local bank regarding our 3 fraudulent withdrawals. At least 2 of them were processed in Brussels, Belgium of all places. Just to note, our debit card was not used anywhere in JA..except at 2 ATM"S in Negril. It was always locked in a safe and never carried with us, except to the ATM....and then we would return to the room and lock up the cash and the debit card.
I don't know if this info is helpful to anyone, but those with expertise in the digital world we live in...maybe so. IF someone has any input, please let us know. Peace out...and a shout to Bnewb...you are very welcome. :)
Jenn, I am not sure your credit union is correct. Banks that issue debit cards have to follow Visa/Matercard rules which cover the consumer for any fraudulent transaction. I would ask your credit union to provide you with their debit card disclosures.
The debit cards at the bank I work for are VISA cards and VISA has $0 liability for the consumer.
After reading all of these posts I am going to contact my bank and discuss with them the best possible way to combat issues before they arise. My initial thought is to open a separate checking account that has a separate debit card. Tie it to my other account in that I can transfer between the two and do not add overdraft protection from any account on the Jamaica debit card. Transfer funds, go get the funds from the ATM and leave 0.00 in the Jamaica account until the next time I need cash. Then use a separate card in the instance we want to charge something (not a PIN transaction). Credit card transactions have fraud protection so less liability that way.
madcam94, when you contact your bank, ask to talk to the person or department who specializes in debit card fraud issues. A banker or teller may not be able to effectively answer all of your questions.
Thanks, Jamaicajeanne. I will confirm with the fraud department at my credit union.
That is what I have done, the bank said "good idea". Very easy to do online (Schwab).Quote:
Originally Posted by madcam94
This is an excellent idea for any trip out of town if you're not comfortable with a strange ATM. It's also a good way for internet transactions too.Quote:
Originally Posted by madcam94
Brought cash and got it exchanged at various mom and pop grocery stores. Got cash twice at the Scotia bank only. Zero problems either way. Stayed away from all non bank atm's after reading this post.
We tend to use our Credit Card in Jamaica at our resort (at check out basically) and at some restaurants. We have only every had a problem at a Jewelry Store at Sangster one time (the only place we used that card on that trip). Reading this thread has raised my awareness to this issue but it has left me with some questions...
Should I trust hotels like Rockhouse with my credit card?
Restaurants we tend to use our credit cards include Rockhouse, Ivan's, Kuyaba, and Pushcart (there are others but these come to mind).
I hate to carry a lot of cash when I am traveling, and usually just take a bunch of 1's and 5's for tips, and enough cash for cabs and such, but outside of that we use our credit cards.
What are your views on the use of credit cards at these places I mentioned? While we have visited Jamaica over 35 times, most times to Negril, reading this thread has made me rethink our methods.
Thanks for sharing your views and experiences!
Roy
I don't think I reported in yet. Used my debit card at every ATM...had to because most of they declined me without even connecting to my bank. I would say out of 9 or 10 attempts I got cash 3 times. My brother was never able to get cash. The good news is absolutely no problems have shown up. Consider this a test of current fraud at the ATMs. Used my credit card at the Hi Lo in Mobay and had no problem mon. I want to be back there so bad it hurts!! PNS
Curious, did this happen over a week or so or maybe just a weekend? I have had issues like this on two occasions IIRC, and would say my success rate is about 95%. I did have one night where I hit every ATM in Negril, with two ATM cards, and struck out in getting cash. I always load up early Friday as it seems the only time the ATM's are out of cash is on the weekend. I usually go in low season though, and might have had the issues during high season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumlover
booger, several different days of the week but being out of JA could have been a problem once or twice. One time at Times Square when I was really concerned about running out of money I tried getting US and it gave it to me. Not the way to go though with the current exchange rate. The one I found that worked for me last was in the parking lot of Value Master. I think that was one drawing some concern.
I had 0 luck using debit card in any atm(all scotia) during our trip 2/3 2/17
That does not sound good. Any chance you care to share details as in which ATM's and your bank back home??? If not, I completely understand, as I have had really good results with BofA and Chase.Quote:
Originally Posted by pine tree john
Chase but I don't think it was them. They showed no requests other that the ones that succeeded. I will always be prepared with more cash.
I have stayed attentive to this situation, and considering Rob's recent posts I feel confident the ATM's in Negril are NOT being tampered with, but it is the Visa/MC processor for the Caribbean (and their accomplices on the ground utilizing the info) that are the problem. The situation is still concerning but I feel good about Negril.
Returned to US January 16. Both my husband and I had our accounts emptied on the 24th and 26 (2 different banks) at Novscotia StJames/Texaco. Waiting for banks response this morning. We only used our cards at bank atms.
that's concerning . . . cash only seems better option . . .
i've always paid my hotel bll with my cc . . .never problems but had double charges at the duty free at mo bay.
Keep checking as we got hit last week and our return was January 16:(
My mastercard was cranked to the tune of $22000.00. only used once to put a downpayment on a scooter rest of the time was in a scan proof container. beware its real.
@ 11 pages .. & almost 10,000 views ...I gotta ask ..
what's the magic formula ..cash & cash only ..cause this seems like it's ..Islandwide ...
Does anyone know if Scotia bank in Negril will still cash travelers checks? We always brought travelers checks in the past and called our money changer friend come to our room to cash them or cashed them at Scotia bank when we were downtown.
The problem is actually world wide....not just in Jamaica.
I have been sitting at my bankers desk (I am a banker, LOL) for the past 16 years. Fraud is rampant right now and only getting worse.
To those of you who have been unsuccessful at obtaining cash while on vacation. Many processing companies will no longer allow transactions from another country without prior authorization. It is necessary to call your bank or credit card to alert them that you may want your card to work while traveling internationally. Once you are skimmed or the network is hacked, duplicate cards can be made very easily and quickly and then sold internationally. Most of our fraud attempts occur during on line purchases from outside of the US as your number has been sold around the country. The fraudsters will try high dollar merchandise purchases.
Duplicate transactions are not usually fraud and can occur when there is a "hiccup" in the network.
Processing companies use a mathematical calculation to try to combat fraudulent transactions. We strive to make sure all contact information is correct on your account as our processor will literally shut down transactions that score too high and your card will become restricted for use if the fraud experts at your processing company cannot contact you.
In addition, your bank will not generally text you nor will the processing company....do not respond with personal details (acct #, SSN). If you receive a text from your bank, definitely give them a call instead of responding to the text.
There is no perfect solution.
My beef with my bank is this - I gave them our travel dates, so why are they allowing cash withdrawals a full 5 weeks after we returned home? Perhaps a banker knows the answer because it doesn't make sense to meQuote:
Originally Posted by jamaicajeanne
Plongdin,This should not happen!!
In our processing system, we have the ability to make your debit card work anywhere in the world and can also set an expiration date. So, if you called me and said you were leaving for Jamaica and would be back on a specific day, I will set your card to work ONLY during that specific time frame. If there were pre approved items pending, they would go ahead and post. Perhaps human error has occurred in the approval dates?? Possibly there was no ending date set?? I would request an answer from the person or department that specializes in debit card fraud. Additionally, I would immediately close the card and open a new card. Since you experienced fraud upon your return, I am surprised that your bank did not advise you to immediately close the card. If they had closed the card, you would not be experiencing continued fraud. Once I am made aware of potential fraud on a debit card, I do not give my clients an option to keep the card open.
It is also possible to "turn off" the fraud scoring system. It is NOT advisable, but perhaps an inexperienced person at your bank did indeed turn this system off.
I have been using my mastercard debit card tied to my checking account while on vacation for at least 10 years . Always worked fine . I did notify my bank of our travel dates . I called my bank from Ja after being denied twice at the Times Square ATM . no record of attempted transaction . I also tried it twice in Lucy with same result .
Pine Tree,
No real answer for you on this one. Usually when there is no record of the attempted transaction it means that the networks could not connect. There could be lots of explanations but generally it is an "offline" situation.
plondig,same thing to happened to me about 3 weeks after coming home and giving dates to the credit union of when i would be away. also i get direct deposit on many checks and really don't have the cash for a long trip
I was 3 for 4 on my attempts at the main scotia bank. I had bank issues from my home on a Sat., but was able to call and get it rectified. I tried 4 times and gave up before getting a hold of someone. I was in a total panic as I was down to $20 american. I was charged by my bank for those 4 attempts(will get a refund). Scotia was out of money on Sunday. Scotia limited me to about $110 american per trans action which sucked because of added fees per occurrence. I was getting $110 ja when the exchange rate was at $117 at a small grocery store. I will gladly give the small local grocer the difference because I dont use time,taxi to get to a bank,no worries about atm BS and would rather see a small mom and pop store make the difference. Next time I bring cash. No BSQuote:
Originally Posted by pine tree john
jamaicajeanne, what are the 'authorities' who set up VISA/MC processors doing to intercept the code-hacking that is occurring within the software? For example, the Brazilian processor for the Caribbean/Latin America? This is a new method they have found to exploit and is flourishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamaicajeanne
Also, do the banks have to eat the costs or do they recoup from VISA & MC?
John, and others who said they could not get cash, it may have been the machine was out, which can happen especially during holiday or celebratory times (aka Bob Marley birthday 1st week in Feb). They do service and refill the machines frequently; I find going back an hour or so later it is able to dispense again.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamaicajeanne
Lola, I am not sure what the processors are doing to intercept the code hacking, but is it an ongoing battle with new information sent out daily. Most processors are now issuing the new chip cards which add an additional layer of security. With a regular card, your personal information is stored in the magnetic strip on the back of the card. The chip cards keep your most sensitive information stored in the chip and it issues a one time use code instead of using all of your personal data in every transaction.
Individual banks eat the cost of debit card fraud. This is why I do not give my clients a choice to keep the card open once fraud is discovered. We currently pay for 2 distinct "extra" layers of security. One is the transaction scoring system and the other is the system that will not allow the card to be used internationally unless we have prior notice. This allows us to take a very active role in attempting to deter fraud. The client also has to be diligent....be aware of your surroundings, protect your pin, watch your account, etc. In addition, if you are traveling internationally and using your debit card, it is important that you "stay connected" and check your phone for calls from the bank or fraud department or check your account with web access. We do everything we can to try to protect you, but we need your assistance too. For example, before we halted international transactions, we had a client travel to Thailand. They used the ATM in the airport after landing and never checked their account for the rest of the trip. A month later, we were alerted that the card had been skimmed and was being used in Italy. The transactions totaled $65,000 (US)....our loss.
I completely understand why so many want to use their cards while traveling, but you need to be aware of the potential risk you are taking. It is also very important that you understand what measures your bank is taking to try to protect you by talking to someone at your bank who specialized in debit cards. It is all very frustrating to need to "stay connected", but it is for your protection that we take these measures.
Debit cards also have daily use limits. I hear frustrations from clients all of the time..."it is my money and I don't want a limit on my card". The daily limit is another layer of protection and helps to protect your account from being instantly wiped out. Our cards default to a daily limit of $310. This limit can be adjusted up or down in minutes if you give us a call. My recommendations to everyone are to set your daily limits low and stay connected to your bank if you are using your card internationally.
It is also important to keep in mind that this is not just an issue with Jamaica. It is an issue world wide and their is no easy answer at this time.
Cool runnings!
There are so many ways your information can be obtained if you are a target. Maybe your credit card was skimmed or scanned. Or, maybe you have been made a victim of one of thousands of other attacks. In this digital age, your data and privacy isn't secure. http://www.informationisbeautiful.ne...reaches-hacks/Quote:
Originally Posted by yetta
Could this have happened in JA? Yes. Could it also be coincidence? Yes.
For those that have inquired about liability for debit cards where a pin may be compromised, below is information regarding USA federal laws:
http://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/201...-credit-cards/Quote:
May 19, 2015 8:34 pm ET
Federal rules allow significant liability for fraudulent debit-card transactions that aren’t reported in a timely manner.
With debit cards, the CFPB says that “if an unauthorized transaction appears on your statement (but your card or PIN has not been lost or stolen), under federal law you will not be liable for the debit if you report it within 60 days after your account statement is sent to you.”
The rules are different if the card or PIN has been lost or stolen: Report the problem within two business days and liability is limited to $50 of unauthorized charges. Then the maximum liability rises to $500.
“If any unauthorized charges go unreported for more than 60 days,” the CFPB says, “your money, and future charges by the same person, could be lost.”
As many have suggested, opening a temporary bank account may be a viable option. Alternatively, you can check you online account frequently and report fraudulent activity as soon as it occurs.
Good info BrianJM!
It is also imperative that you understand your specific bank's policies regarding fraudulent debit card transactions. Although the Federal rules are listed above, many financial institutions (including the one I work for) follow the $0 liability rules of Visa and MasterCard even for a pin based transaction. Credit Unions operate under a different set of guidelines.
jamaicajeanne, I just saw your post above mine. Daily limits are also a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamaicajeanne
You are correct. Each institution has different policies. :) It's hard to keep track of them.
Here is the best I could find relating to Visa and MasterCard:
http://www.visasecuritysense.com/en_...#ZeroLiability
This actually states that ATM & PIN-based transactions are not covered. Maybe it's out of date?
https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/abou...onditions.html
This is not explicit, but other articles indicate that MasterCard offers zero-liability on all transactions. With that in mind, it does say that the cardholder should promptly report the incident (which implies federal law?).
It is definitely difficult to keep track of all of the changing rules and regulations. This thread has caused me to re think all of the procedures I thought I understood. As I think about all of the situations I have encountered as an employee of a financial institution, I have to admit that we have seen very few pin based fraud transactions. Generally, when the card is compromised, we see international fraud where a card has actually been duplicated and is being used as POS (point of sale using a vendor). We also see a lot of fraudulent internet transactions that are usually being processed outside of the US. We were able to gain some control over this by implementing no international transactions without prior authorization.
I went out on the internet looking for 2016 $0 liability rules. It appears as though Master Card has changed to $0 liability for some pin based transactions and Visa lists a lengthy list of hoops to jump through for $0 liability on pin based transactions. Our institution abides by the $0 liability....for example if you live in the US and you are at my desk and we are seeing international ATM transactions, there is definitely some fraudulent activity occurring. We have you sign a dispute form, provide you with provisional credit and allow the card companies to investigate the "fraud". I have only seen one case where the consumer did not get to keep their provisional credit...in that case, they rented a U-Haul, used the U-Haul for the day and upon returning the U-Haul, complained to a manager that they received poor service. The manager indicated that they would receive a credit and when they did not get the credit, came to us. We followed the dispute process and Visa decided that they indeed used the service and should pay the cost.
We live in a world where our information is definitely not secure! I am anxiously awaiting the decision with the FBI trying to force Apple to write new codes that will make our phone information even more available.
Putting information out regarding fraud helps us to be more informed consumers, but will not stop the fraud. We need to become more proactive and protect ourselves.....maybe not use debit cards on the internet or at an ATM in downtown Negril or Timbuktu? I guess the thing I wish people understood is that it is not just Jamaica.....it is everywhere.
We have become so accustomed to having immediate access to our money that we do not even stop to think about the consequences of swiping our cards. I have visited Jamaica often and have never found the need to use my debit card. I am one of those people who use cash, however carrying cash also presents security issues and headaches. Again, the best advice I can provide is to know what your bank's policies are so you can make an informed decision, keep your daily limits low and even though you are on vacation, stay connected to your financial institution.
Exactly! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by jamaicajeanne
I had my AMEX skimmed/scanned/duplicated in the USA about a year ago, and I am very security-conscious.