An ugly end to a great Negril week-AC1699

I have never before had an experience like this, how about you?

About 100 Winnipeggers and myself were seated on Air Canada flight AC1699 Feb. 14 afternoon, in Montego Bay, Jamaica. The pilot informed us that they had to check a maintenance issue, and we’d be departing in twenty minutes.

Three hours later, we were told ‘the plane isn’t going anywhere today’, and we were herded into the airport to wait, and were told either parts or another plane will be sent right away. 90 minutes later, we were told that we’d have to stay overnight in Mobay, and we’d get our flight in the morning. We were shuffled to hotels without our luggage.
In the morning, we were informed that we’d be sent to Toronto or Montreal this afternoon/evening, where we’d connect to Winnipeg.

On arrival in Toronto, we were told we’d have to stay until morning, when we’d get our connections. We were shuttled around freezing Toronto (some of us had only shorts and sandals) to hotels to await early morning flights. We arrived in Winnipeg Monday morning, two days after “departure”.
I’m all for safe flying and have no problem with maintenance. I question WHY Air Canada didn't fix or send a replacement plane, instead of putting us through two days of waiting and stress. It was financial I'm sure.
I question why they lied to us repeatedly...I guess we would have rioted if they told us Saturday afternoon, that we'd get home monday.

The upshot: Air Canada doesn't care about its customers.
DO NOT FLY AIR CANADA, YOU WON'T BE HAPPY!

That sucks I know when my trip is over I am sad to leave but want to get home and not 2 days later.

We have had 2 similar incidents with A/C. Few years back air canada wouldn't fly out of edmonton for our Jamaican flight due to cold, yet west jet flew out 30 minutes later that same night. Then in 2014, leaving montego also our flight was delayed. Didn't leave til 3 hours after our departure time, never giving us a reason, just bumping departure times every half hour or so. Finally arrive in Toronto and they say, tough luck you have missed your transfer to Edmonton. Same thing shuttle us off to a hotel and then get us out next day. All of it with little to no communication or compassion when you were able to talk to someone.
Crappy part is it's air canada and west jet only and no direct flights available in December when we leave for Negril in December. We try to use west jet but sometimes price does have to come into play. This year it will be west jet if we can!

Sadly, many Canadians don't have a choice as AC is a monopoly carrier for many centres. Even sadder, they act like it. if you're fortunate to have a choice, avoid Air Canada like the plague. Otherwise, good luck.

So sorry to hear sounds like a nightmare. I had a very similar experience. Don't remember the airline, it was in the early 90's. We boarded on time and were on the runway engines all fired up started for take off and the pilot came to a sudden stop HOLY $h!t. So we went back to gate told we had mechanical problems and sat on the plane for about an hour. They told us we had to deboard and than went in the terminal for hours and finally told we had to stay overnight in Mobay. It was a full plane and they put us up at Sandals (not a fan of) We were given 5 rooms to share between all of us and no luggage, they did give us food vouchers. NIGHTMARE to say the least but I guess it could of been worse had we of taken off

Yup, had it happen...twice with AC, NorthWest and a now defunct airline...lol.
A friend just complained about major delays with West Jer also...frustrating when they don't give you a straight answer.

I would certainly write to the president of Air Canada and complain. He will not likely see your complaint but his assistants will. Describe in detail what you experienced and ask for some compensation. You would most likely receive a voucher for a future flight. Airlines have daily briefings where all delays are discussed. Airline executives are usually part of these daily stand ups. Maintenance issues are not immediately analyzed and what at first seemed like a minor issue can become a more serious one due to federal air regulations etc. I remember a naive copilot complaining that her seat had a very minor problem. Turns out that according to some obscure regulation that the seat had to be fully operational for the flight to operate-the flight was cancelled!She could have easily waited to complain about the seat arm rest at the next station that had parts. Getting a replacement aircraft is not that simple as an airline will only have a few spare aircraft and those very few may be at the far end of the system. Another crew would have to be called out also. I would have demanded my luggage or asked for funds to buy any necessary items such as warm clothing. As a precaution, I always carry on enough clothing etc to get me through a delay. In fact, I only check luggage when absolutely necessary.Still it is amazing with all the variables such as humans, machinery and mother nature that our airlines provide us with such wonderful safe transport to travel and see the world and to rather quickly travel to see out loved ones.

Points taken negrilsand. I still don't think its right that Air Canad would trade its pain of finding planes, crews, etc. in favour of its customer's misery. I do intend to contact the President or Directors of Air Canada. What I want in compensation is unlikely to happen; I want a better customer contract, published processes for dealing with delays, punitive costs for customer misery, and perhaps some openness and sincerety. I'm likely to get black-listed for my efforts, they are a vengant corporation!

How about getting to the tkt counter in Mobay only to be told come back in two days flight has been cancelled, no hotel no voucher no nothing...it was only after I caused a fuss that I was told okay wait over there.....finally put up in a Mobay hotel for the night. Hauled to the airport for a wait and see game. Flight finally took off, arrived in Miami, assured my connection was booked only to learn it wasn't , so collect luggage run to the tkt counter pleading my case, missed connection flight. Put up in a Miami hotel. Next morning fly out of Miami/Ft Lauderdale two connections later arrived home. This was on Spirit.

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Originally Posted by sammyb

How about getting to the tkt counter in Mobay only to be told come back in two days flight has been cancelled, no hotel no voucher no nothing...it was only after I caused a fuss that I was told okay wait over there.....finally put up in a Mobay hotel for the night. Hauled to the airport for a wait and see game. Flight finally took off, arrived in Miami, assured my connection was booked only to learn it wasn't , so collect luggage run to the tkt counter pleading my case, missed connection flight. Put up in a Miami hotel. Next morning fly out of Miami/Ft Lauderdale two connections later arrived home. This was on Spirit.

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Spirit has to be the worst airline in the history of air travel. It's a shame, they were very reasonable at one time.

TAH, Air Canada is by far the worst in my experience, maybe Spirit stole some executives:)

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Originally Posted by TAH

Spirit has to be the worst airline in the history of air travel. It's a shame, they were very reasonable at one time.

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Maybe not the worst, the very 1st time I flew I was flying Peoples Express out of Newark to Chicago. Our plane didn't arrive in Newark until 3 hours after its scheduled departure due to a "mechanical" problem. To complicate things, Peoples had another flight departing to Chicago every hour but we couldn't get on those flights and bump those passengers to the next flight so 2 planes came and left while we sat in the concourse in Newark (which was a crappy terminal). Finally our plane arrives and we board, and sit in the plane in the tarmac for an hour before we finally begin our take-off. 5 minutes later the pilot announces that as we flew past the control tower they noticed we had a cargo hatch not secured and must land to secure the hatch and should only be a minute.

As we are landing we notice that every emergency vehicle at Newark is along the runway waiting for us to land. Did I mention this is my 1st flight ever? Landing was otherwise uneventful EXCEPT that about 35 people demanded to be let off the plane because it was destined to crash. After being instructed that their luggage would not be removed and no refunds issued, 35 people still got off the plane muttering things like I don't care if my luggage dies as long as I live. OK, I'm thinking that every one of them probably had more flying experience than me and maybe they were right but then again there were still 300 people on board so I'll stick it out. That few minutes to secure the hatch stretched out to another hour, this was in July and they left the ventilation turned off so it was uncomfortable but eventually we took off and everything turned out fine. In fact my ride from O'Hare was not going to arrive until about 4 hours after I was scheduled to so that timed out pretty well. My flights have all been a joy since that one.

It's not just AC. The one (and only) time I flew West Jet, the flight left 3 hours late making us miss our connecting flight to Ottawa. We too were freezing as we waited for a transfer to an hotel for the night - with our luggage! Then we had to check in all over again the next day. I have had delays with AC but nothing like the one I described.

How was your actual stay in Jamaica?

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Originally Posted by JR&Naise

How was your actual stay in Jamaica?

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Jamaica was great! interesting blustery weather for a few days, excellent concert, great mornings!

Exactly the reason(s) why we fly American Airlines from Calgary. Yes we have to overnight in Dallas but it's part of the vacation experience!
WestJet may offer a direct flight (but only in the winter) but that's almost 8 hours stuffed in like sardines. Thanks but no thanks. Air Canada is the most expensive
carrier so we nix that altogether.

Failing, If AirCanada is the most expensive, why are they always full. All the airlines have become the same. Cram them in, charge for toilet paper and breathing space. Aren't Westjet and American using the same type aircraft?

What I was trying to explain is that, under the circumstances, it would have been almost impossible to do what you propose. Montego Bay is a rather isolated station for Air Canada. It is at an end of their route structure and a replacement aircraft and crew would not have arrived-even if possible-until after your actual departure. Unfortunately you also apparently had a mismatch upon your arrival in Toronto. Air Canada is a fairly small airline and can not offer the flexibility that Delta or American ,for instance, could offer out of Atlanta or Dallas Fort Worth. Air Canada should, indeed, have handled the situation with more understanding. They should have allowed access to your luggage, perhaps, but you would not have been happy with the additional security screening and baggage check-in afterwards. This would possibly have delayed you even further. Air Canada might have allowed access to luggage in Toronto but again with further delays. What Air Canada could certainly have done is to have offered, as a courtesy, blankets, at least, and some vouchers for future flights. I think that there is still a possibility of the vouchers . I will add this serious bit of advice. I think that it is foolish for anyone to travel in flip-flops, shorts and tee shirts especially to a cold place such as Toronto. Hopefully, most of us will never be involved in an aircraft accident where we will have to walk through sharp glass and metal or even through a flash fire. With every "chicken little" yelling terrorism these days there is an even better chance that you might be required to exit the aircraft away from the gate. Gee, the hotel shuttle might not make it to the hotel. I carry nomex gloves in my carry on just in case of an on board fire. I would be able to help myself and others in such an event. I was once a passenger on an SAS flight in Norway when I noticed the flight attendant putting on nomex gloves just before the landing. I told her of my gloves in my carry on and she replied that she would not be of much help in a crash landing if her hands were badly burned. I noticed that she also wore lace up shoes. I noticed the nice legs too!

All these stories should be a good lesson for other people to learn how to travel. Everyone should pack whatever they need to survive for a day in their carry-on luggage. And if one is flying to a cold climate to pack at least a light jacket. Change of clothes is a good idea. Also some light snacks in case you are stuck in a plane for hours waiting for a "quick fix". Plan for the worst when traveling

Thanks for your comments, Negrilsand and Captain Oil. I'm not convinced AC could'nt find a replacement aircraft, or charter us with a different carrier. MBJ is 2 air-hours from many north american hubs served by AC. I believe they just didn't care to make it happen, or pay for it. I have asked the VP of maintenance for some logistical answers, I doubt I will get replies.
I think everyone was prepared to 'survive' with thier carry-ons, but this wasn't about survival, it was about the comfort we paid for. How many circumstances should one reasonably prepare for in a carry-on? Note that none of us expected to end up in Toronto's outdoors.

Well, Thepegboy, we can all sympathize with you. Perhaps a little effort at communication by Air Canada would have helped a lot. But I suspect that between us, Captain Oil and I, have over 50 years of experience on the front lines of aviation. We may know just a little bit. There are very few spare aircraft, if any, available at any given time that would be available for charter. Leasing a spare aircraft from another airline is even more unlikely-impossible!. Finding an aircraft that would carry the same number of passengers and fly the route would be very very unlikely. Due to the lack of communication by AC and a lack of a little stroking of egos, you are left in a situation where there is very little that would satisfy you. An airliner these days cost usually over $100 million US. You will not find this kind of asset sitting around as a spare at various airports waiting for a random maintenance problem. The Air Canada personnel at MBJ are most likely almost entirely part time contract employees. They are not exceptionally skilled in public relations, motivated nor authorized to completely handle such situations. If Air Canada or, for that matter any airline, could have done what you wanted, your airfare would have to have been at least 3-5 times what you paid-at least. I'm pulling a number out my hat, but the cost to get a replacement aircraft-even if possible- would be well over $200,000 US! Your ticket just did not cover that. Again Air Canada, in a good will gesture, should give you a voucher good for a future flight. Captain Oil, thanks for reminding me to carry snacks!

Wow so sorry you had to go through all that. We always layer when we fly to Jamaica, T-shirt, sweater, then fleece lined hooded sweatshirt. The sweater can be used for cool nights and the sweatshirt is not as bulky as a winter coat but keeps us warm when waiting for pickups outside the airport.

If you think Canada Air or any other scheduled airline is bad, try having issues on a charter flight. Their only responsibility is getting you to the destination - does not matter if it is a few hours later or a week latter - they got you there. End of story. No vouchers, no food, no hotel, no apology, no nothing. You are completely on your own.

At least with scheduled airlines you have rights.

Agreed, Cap, it could be worse. But I was told that the Air Canada customer guarantee read something like " we will get you there at some point", which allows them the flexibility to do what they do. I am hoping that a silver lining here might be better communication of this contract, building up to a legislated Air Passenger Bill of Rights. Dream big.....

I'm sure that if you respond on their customer complaint email or telephone, and let them know how much you were inconvenienced, that they will fully compensate you, via some sort of credit. That is, if you are willing to give them another try. That was a terrible situation, and hopefully it won't happen to you again.

If you look at real figures all the airlines have a lot of late, really late and cancelled flights. In fact AirCanada and Westjet are almost identical in inconveniencing their customers. Just Westjet does it with a smile instead of a grumble!

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Originally Posted by negrilsand

Well, Thepegboy, we can all sympathize with you. Perhaps a little effort at communication by Air Canada would have helped a lot. But I suspect that between us, Captain Oil and I, have over 50 years of experience on the front lines of aviation. We may know just a little bit. There are very few spare aircraft, if any, available at any given time that would be available for charter. Leasing a spare aircraft from another airline is even more unlikely-impossible!. Finding an aircraft that would carry the same number of passengers and fly the route would be very very unlikely. Due to the lack of communication by AC and a lack of a little stroking of egos, you are left in a situation where there is very little that would satisfy you. An airliner these days cost usually over $100 million US. You will not find this kind of asset sitting around as a spare at various airports waiting for a random maintenance problem. The Air Canada personnel at MBJ are most likely almost entirely part time contract employees. They are not exceptionally skilled in public relations, motivated nor authorized to completely handle such situations. If Air Canada or, for that matter any airline, could have done what you wanted, your airfare would have to have been at least 3-5 times what you paid-at least. I'm pulling a number out my hat, but the cost to get a replacement aircraft-even if possible- would be well over $200,000 US! Your ticket just did not cover that. Again Air Canada, in a good will gesture, should give you a voucher good for a future flight. Captain Oil, thanks for reminding me to carry snacks!

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Well said. It makes zero sense to have an aircraft sitting around ready to fly overseas to come to the rescue of a broken down aircraft. Not only that, it makes zero sense to have every single stinking part that can go bad sitting in a warehouse at each location. Now if you were at a hub I could understand your frustration. I myself have been delayed two days coming back to the States from MBJ, spent 4 hours on the phone with Jamaican American Airlines customer service(you cannot call US American Airlines customer service from overseas), and had to fork out additional money for hotel, food, etc. Gotta love travel insurance......

As a former aircraft mechanic I take great appreciation when a supervisor has to make the tough call to ground an aircraft. While you state that Air Canada does not care, I believe in fact the opposite is true. Had they not cared they would have potentially flown the aircraft. Those in the know seem to see things differently.

All airlines can suck at times. Last year coming back from JA Jetblue stuck us in Florida for hours with excuse after excuse. Ran up a nice $150-$200 bar tab....but there were two of us....I'm not that much of a drinker...lol. They said they were going to put up us for the night but later changed their mind. Down at their main office they were telling some family the same thing that they are not giving away anything. The other family would not take their shiit so Jetblue called the police on them. The other family other than being a little drunk from waiting all day were just calling Jetblue out on their change of heart. When the police showed up it looked liked everything was going to go real south real quick. So I stood up....maybe with a stagger or so and crafted a master story that supported the other family and made all of the Jetblue employees out to be the liars that they were. In the end the police left once we were all given a food/lodging comp to a really nice hotel. Jetblue tried the same shiit of calling the police on another traveler in NY when he called them out....I saved that guy from jail as well.


With all this negative stuff about Jetblue, they are the best airline I've flown on since Delta had their "Delta Song" airline.

OP-sucks that your trip ended bad. Any trip report on the good times you had in JA?

Things happen. I like to fly Air Canada; but only because the Jamaica plane is a 767 wide body that is much more comfortable than the WestJet 737.
However, they slapped some new paint on these older aircraft and called them 'rouge' and they're not the most reliable jets in the fleet any more.
Had a washroom break-down last year that delayed us departing Montego Bay for a couple of hours.
Still, I'm un-comfortable on the WestJet planes and will put up with the occasional problem to fly on the 767.
I missed going this year. Does A/C still fly the 767?

AirCanada still flies the 767s under the "Rouge " banner. But they changed the seating to the Westjet standard. So welcome to the smallest seats around.

I was angry when AC put my mother and I on a Rouge Flight. The seating was so cramped and a young girl in front of mom put her seat all the way back so my mother couldn't get up out of her seat without the pax in front putting her seat up. Super cramped space. Never fly Rouge again.

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Originally Posted by booger

Well said. It makes zero sense to have an aircraft sitting around ready to fly overseas to come to the rescue of a broken down aircraft. Not only that, it makes zero sense to have every single stinking part that can go bad sitting in a warehouse at each location. Now if you were at a hub I could understand your frustration. I myself have been delayed two days coming back to the States from MBJ, spent 4 hours on the phone with Jamaican American Airlines customer service(you cannot call US American Airlines customer service from overseas), and had to fork out additional money for hotel, food, etc. Gotta love travel insurance......

As a former aircraft mechanic I take great appreciation when a supervisor has to make the tough call to ground an aircraft. While you state that Air Canada does not care, I believe in fact the opposite is true. Had they not cared they would have potentially flown the aircraft. Those in the know seem to see things differently.

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...and I take great appreciation in tough safety calls too; I take issue with responses. I'm not suggesting there be a 'ghost plane' for every flight, but why not do some rescheduling and free up a close plane? I don't care how expensive it is, it is the proper customer service reaction. I think Air Canada (maybe all airlines) take the cheap way out too often.

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Originally Posted by Lady Jane

I was angry when AC put my mother and I on a Rouge Flight. The seating was so cramped and a young girl in front of mom put her seat all the way back so my mother couldn't get up out of her seat without the pax in front putting her seat up. Super cramped space. Never fly Rouge again.

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We ended up on a Rouge 767-300 from Mobay to Toronto... scary and cramped! You don't notice how newer aircraft have changed until you ride an old one.

Some people evidently live in a dream world. Thepegboy is asking for the impossible! I'm sure that if Air Canada could just have talked to you, they would have rescheduled their Miami flights, leaving those passengers waiting for a day or two in order for you to have gotten to Toronto a few hours sooner.. I suggest that for your next flight you might want to check out one of the business jet charter companies.

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Originally Posted by thepegboy

...and I take great appreciation in tough safety calls too; I take issue with responses. I'm not suggesting there be a 'ghost plane' for every flight, but why not do some rescheduling and free up a close plane? I don't care how expensive it is, it is the proper customer service reaction. I think Air Canada (maybe all airlines) take the cheap way out too often.

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So you'd be fine with paying double the usual airfare all the time then?

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Originally Posted by negrilsand

Some people evidently live in a dream world. Thepegboy is asking for the impossible! I'm sure that if Air Canada could just have talked to you, they would have rescheduled their Miami flights, leaving those passengers waiting for a day or two in order for you to have gotten to Toronto a few hours sooner.. I suggest that for your next flight you might want to check out one of the business jet charter companies.

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LOL! I'm sure you're being facetious about Miami... If Air Canada has every plane in thier fleet assigned at every moment, I'll eat this web site.
If you read my original post, us 100 winnipeggers were never supposed to connect to Toronto.
My next flight will be on Westjet or NOrthwest...until they mess up, I will believe they are miles above Air Canada in customer service.

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Originally Posted by TAH

So you'd be fine with paying double the usual airfare all the time then?

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If that's what it costs for providing what they sell, then let them compete on that basis. Why should anyone pay for a direct flight and get a two day connection horror?

i would have stayed in Jamaica until they could get me straight home . . . extended vacation on them --- and the best "i can't get to work" excuse ever

You may have to at least take a bite of this website. Airlines have almost no aircraft that are not being used for revenue or in maintenance. i would guess that AC would have 1 or 2 spare aircraft on any day. Some days they might have 1 or none.I used to train pilots when they actually had to train in the aircraft. Now they are trained completely in the simulators. The only way that I could get an airplane was to show up at 2 AM and use the airplane until about 6 AM. I mention Miami because that would be the nearest AC station with more than one flight. I use that as an example. Whether you were going to Toronto or someplace else, the same facts apply. It would have been cost prohibitive and nearly impossible to do what you proposed. Every major airline has a team of aircraft and crew schedulers that are on duty 24/7 to resolve problems such as the one you describe. If there had been a spare aircraft in MIA for instance-a one in 5 million chance-AC would still have had to get a crew there to fly the plane to MBJ. That crew would have been dispatched from Toronto or Montreal most likely. All this would have to be weighted against perhaps another irregular operation. In their judgement, they thought that you would be the least inconvenienced by taking the course that they did.If they had somehow found a replacement aircraft, then they would have had an empty airplane in MBJ which would have caused a cancelled flight in another instance.When you drive your car, do you have a spare on standby with a reserve driver? Sometimes we have car trouble and we make the best of it. We meet nice people and perhaps see a place that we have never seen before and eat a an interesting restaurant. That is the nature of travel. Where did they lodge you in MBJ. Did you meet some fellow traveler? I will wager that you have enjoyed most of your flights on AC and other airlines. I predict that you will enjoy many more flights in the years to come. I have always wondered how those gate agents kept their cool and sanity while dealing with unreasonable passengers. And I've never seen anyone eat a website.

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Originally Posted by thepegboy

LOL! I'm sure you're being facetious about Miami... If Air Canada has every plane in thier fleet assigned at every moment, I'll eat this web site.
If you read my original post, us 100 winnipeggers were never supposed to connect to Toronto.
My next flight will be on Westjet or NOrthwest...until they mess up, I will believe they are miles above Air Canada in customer service.

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As a fellow Winnipegger I gave up on Air Canada a long time ago. WestJet kicked them to the curb, which is kind of disappointing as competition breeds good business, but really.....one other airline. I really consider it a monopoly!! Just sayin...