Working hard for change...we can help!

[wha gwan]

Oh I want to amend those last three words. It also includes a fruit vendor who refused to give me change after a purchase as well as the bracelet guy, who upon seeing me for the first time on a recent trip, started yelling at me from 10 feet away because I did not purchase a bracelet on my previous trip. I could go on with the examples. Is this the normal way to conduct business in Jamaica? Do I need to get on the relativism bandwagon?

[Flipadelphia26]

And by the way, I think the begging and higgling on the beach has decreased significantly since the Jetskis were banned.

[Bnewb]

Hell, I have sat with Rob and Lisa on the beach at the bar, and even they occasionally have someone come ask them if they want to buy some smoke, some woven basket or whatever.

And I would be very disappointed if they didn't ask...more often annoyed when I can't find the vendor on the beach that I'm looking for...pepper shrimp guy and popcorn man are never around when I want a snack...lol...love those guys!!!

[jon c.]

And only twice was is not my or someone in my parties fault.

Not really an attitude that helps much in the promotion of tourism.

[Rob]

Rob I respectfully take exception with some of your comments.

On one hand you state, "The hand holding is not an intimidation tactic but a transparent sales tactic." and then you quote Dr. Nicely, "What is harassment, to me, might not be harassment to you so there is a lack of clarity as to which behaviours constitute harassment...". Seems like you want it both ways. Although I somewhat agree with the relativism argument made by the doc, it does not hold up when, in my experience, I am cussed at & physically threatened by higglers. You can argue that it is not harassment but I am not buying it.

You may know the "New York" way to carry yourself, but I did not read anything in HarryS actions that define a NY way. To me his "NY" way is that he is not naive or gullible (i.e., street smart) and will not be smooth or rough talked into doing something he does not want to do.

I agree that there are many folks struggling to make an honest living and carry themselves in a responsible manner (relatively speaking, wink, wink), but unfortunately there are many that do not and these are most the ones who are peddling illicit goods.

Wha,

I sympathize with your situation and frustration, that is why Bnewb started this thread and it was posted here. The article and survey are applicable to Negril and elsewhere in the world. Please fill out the survey and help become part of the solution.

But I take exception to those who havent shared your's and HarryS' experience essentially being labeled liars. Their lack of being harassed is equal to your experiences. Just because they arent hassled doesnt mean there is no harassment any more than your being harassed means everyone is harassed. Each persons experience is equally valid.

What happened to you, by anyone's definition is harassment. No one can logically argue against that. I also stated that HarryS and/or his wife being touched when not wanting to be touched is also unacceptable. That would be harassment as well. While the transparent sales technique of hand holding is harassment if you dont want to be touched, it is not an intimidation tactic, but a sales tactic. Label it for what it is, dont fabricate some motive behind a blatantly obvious sales tactic.

And HarryS said " I'm a New Yorker. One who has friends in Harlem and used to take the subway there and home at 3 and 4am, never bothered once because I know how to carry myself. You know, that was an area back when I used to go (151st and Bdwy) where they would tell white people "don't be there after dark". I never, not once, in years, had a single problem."

To me, having spent time in NYC, this does define a "NY way". There would be no reason for him to write it otherwise. He wanted us all to know he knows the NY way.

I am not sure how first time visitors (read the latest trip report) can have such a great time and little hassles as do countless others, and yet two separate repeat New York visitors are having such an incredibly hard and harassed time. I am not sure, but perhaps the condescending "(relatively speaking, wink, wink)" may or may not have revealing qualities.

And I cannot even imagine what would cause a "bracelet guy" to remember someone and yell at them on their first day back from 10 feet away. Hundreds of visitors dont buy from him and other bracelet vendors everyday and I have never heard of this happening before....

[wha gwan]

I for one appreciate Bnewb & your efforts to have this discussion.

I also have only described some of my not so pleasant experiences and have not doubted or challenged other members opinion. I fail to see how I have labeled other people as liars. I do not think that it is a fair or thoughtful comment on my contribution to this discussion. Nor have I implied that everyone is harassed or all my experiences involve harassment.

If you interpreted my (relatively speaking, wink, wink) as being condescending to you, then I must apologize since that was not my intention. It was a (failed!) attempt at sarcasm.

"And I cannot even imagine what would cause a "bracelet guy" to remember someone and yell at them on their first day back from 10 feet away." Makes me laugh just thinking about it! Signing off...

[Rob]

Wha,

This is an important topic and that is why we have the survey and article linked. We also want the topic to remain as real as possible.

One of the first things HarryS did was challenged other members, going as far as saying that they are in denial which by definition means their statement is something not true.

When you said "HarryS is 100% spot on, from his critique of blaming the tourist when they are harassed to the transparent methods of the higglers!", I took that to mean that you were agreeing with what he was saying 100% including calling other members liars.

I must thank you now for clarifying that you do not 100% agree with HarryS being spot on with his comments.

Sarcasm is often a tough thing to make clear on the Internet, thanks for the apology but it is unnecessary for me as I never thought for a moment you were being condescending towards me.

And the bracelet thing makes me scratch my head more than laugh...

Thanks again for clearing things up.

[Jaherring]

Begging has decreased since the jet skis were *banned*????? lol.

[Flipadelphia26]

I guess I imagined the guy every 15 feet trying to sell jetski rides along with everything else.

[dash]

Flip, The total vibe of the beach has changed for the better, without the jet skis. But maybe you used the wrong word "begging". I agree there seems to be less hassling without the Jetski promotions. Now if they would only control the horses!