# Negril.com Message Board Forums > Living in Jamaica >  Water

## sabu

You could see this water shortage coming with the big new developments. Wonder how the sewage plant will keep up? The over-development of Bloody Bay has been driven by greed, foreign investment and corruption. It's time the local leadership starts acting to protect and preserve the natural beauty of Negril.

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/l...wc-floundering

----------


## Rob

And as a follow-up to that article, the speaker quoted went on to explain the solution:

"According to Meggoe, money from the TEF could be used to develop a water-supply system at Roaring River in Westmoreland to facilitate Negril and outlying communities, providing approximately seven million gallons of water daily."

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/l...ils-water-woes

----------


## njsem

There's an old saying bigger isn't always better

----------


## halfwaytree

> There's an old saying bigger isn't always better


If I had a nickel for every time I told a woman that ... .

 :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Odinson

Curacao, albeit a lot smaller than Jamaica (160k residents, 240k visitors/year), gets all its drinking water from desalination plants.  Takes a lot of energy and tastes fine although not as good as Jamaican tap water.  The technology is getting better all the time.

----------


## Biggs of the week

Has any improvements been made to the sewage plant to handle the increase of volume ? A lot mor usage with the number of rooms being added at the new development ? Where is that going ?

----------


## Rob

> Has any improvements been made to the sewage plant to handle the increase of volume ? A lot mor usage with the number of rooms being added at the new development ? Where is that going ?


Biggs, 

This seems to be annual topic. Discussed in May of 2015 and May of 2016, this year's April discussion comes a few weeks early.

The upgrades to the water treatment plant you and I discussed last May have been completed, taking into account the new development at both Sansatori and Royalton.

----------


## Rob

> Curacao, albeit a lot smaller than Jamaica (160k residents, 240k visitors/year), gets all its drinking water from desalination plants.  Takes a lot of energy and tastes fine although not as good as Jamaican tap water.  The technology is getting better all the time.


There are currently quite a few negatives regarding desalination besides costs. Here is an informative article:

"Desalination is a process by which salt and brackish water is pulled out of the ocean and run through a desalination and purification system to result in clean, drinkable water. Desalination technology is hailed as a positive answer to worldwide water shortages, and is being developed and encouraged in areas that are close to oceans but lacking in freshwater supplies. However, desalination is not a fail-safe process and carries with it many environmental repercussions. The disadvantages of desalination are causing many people to think twice before starting desalination projects.

Waste Disposal
As with any process, desalination has by-products that must be taken care of. The process of desalination requires pretreatment and cleaning chemicals, which are added to water before desalination to make the treatment more efficient and successful. These chemicals include chlorine, hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide, and they can be used for only a limited amount of time. Once they've lost their ability to clean the water, these chemicals are dumped, which becomes a major environmental concern. These chemicals often find their way back into the ocean, where they poison plant and animal life.

Brine
Brine is the side product of desalination. While the purified water goes on to be processed and put into human use, the water that is left over, which has a super saturation of salt, must be disposed of. Most desalination plants pump this brine back into the ocean, which presents another environmental drawback. Ocean species are not equipped to adjust to the immediate change in salinity caused by the release of brine into the area. The super-saturated salt water also decreases oxygen levels in the water, causing animals and plants to suffocate.

Ocean Populations
The organisms most commonly affected by brine and chemical discharge from desalination plants are plankton and phytoplankton, which form the base of all marine life by forming the base of the food chain. Desalination plants therefore have the ability to negatively affect the population of animals in the ocean. These effects are further developed through the disadvantages caused by desalination "impingement" and "entrainment." While sucking ocean water in for desalination, the plants trap and kill animals, plants and eggs, many of which belong to endangered species.

Health Concerns
Desalination is not a perfected technology, and desalinated water can be harmful to human health as well. By-products of the chemicals used in desalination can get through into the "pure" water and endanger the people who drink it. Desalinated water can also be acidic to both pipes and digestive systems.

Energy Use
In an age where energy is becoming increasingly precious, desalination plants have the disadvantage of requiring large amounts of power. Other water treatment technologies are more energy efficient."

http://sciencing.com/disadvantages-d...n-5961767.html

----------


## Odinson

> There are currently quite a few negatives regarding desalination besides costs. Here is an informative article:
> 
> "Desalination is a process by which salt and brackish water is pulled out of the ocean and run through a desalination and purification system to result in clean, drinkable water. Desalination technology is hailed as a positive answer to worldwide water shortages, and is being developed and encouraged in areas that are close to oceans but lacking in freshwater supplies. However, desalination is not a fail-safe process and carries with it many environmental repercussions. The disadvantages of desalination are causing many people to think twice before starting desalination projects.
> 
> Waste Disposal
> As with any process, desalination has by-products that must be taken care of. The process of desalination requires pretreatment and cleaning chemicals, which are added to water before desalination to make the treatment more efficient and successful. These chemicals include chlorine, hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide, and they can be used for only a limited amount of time. Once they've lost their ability to clean the water, these chemicals are dumped, which becomes a major environmental concern. These chemicals often find their way back into the ocean, where they poison plant and animal life.
> 
> Brine
> Brine is the side product of desalination. While the purified water goes on to be processed and put into human use, the water that is left over, which has a super saturation of salt, must be disposed of. Most desalination plants pump this brine back into the ocean, which presents another environmental drawback. Ocean species are not equipped to adjust to the immediate change in salinity caused by the release of brine into the area. The super-saturated salt water also decreases oxygen levels in the water, causing animals and plants to suffocate.
> ...


What other _water treatment technologies_ would work?  I have a feeling turning brown water into drinking water would not be 'palatable' to most people.

This article talks about a few of the newer technologies available.
https://www.amtaorg.com/Water_Desali...Processes.html 

This is the Carlsbad CA plant webpage.  Lots of info about how it works, not so much about waste products.  Not sure if there is anywhere in the world more concerned about the environment than the Country of California - my guess would be that they have mitigated most of the environmental concerns either with this state of the art technology or through other means.
http://carlsbaddesal.com/

----------


## Marko

all I can say is that the water problem on the West End absolutely stinks where mi live.......
since December the water supply to our place on Ella Drive has been hit and miss.....mi sick of it

today there was an article regarding Negril's water problem........
NWC is saying it because of a drought in Hanover where the water comes from...geezzzz
however mi friends in Hanover saying dem getting rain?
back in 2012/2013 it was because of the pumps that needed replacing....
dunno who are the managers of the NWC are......but der a lot of room for improvement......true

Todays JamaicaObserver.com Article.......
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...-supply----NWC

Cool Runnings, Marko

----------


## Rob

> What other _water treatment technologies_ would work?  I have a feeling turning brown water into drinking water would not be 'palatable' to most people.
> 
> This article talks about a few of the newer technologies available.
> https://www.amtaorg.com/Water_Desali...Processes.html 
> 
> This is the Carlsbad CA plant webpage.  Lots of info about how it works, not so much about waste products.  Not sure if there is anywhere in the world more concerned about the environment than the Country of California - my guess would be that they have mitigated most of the environmental concerns either with this state of the art technology or through other means.
> http://carlsbaddesal.com/


The US EPA seems to disagree. They state "Wastewater treatment facilities in the United States process approximately 34 billion gallons of wastewater every day. Wastewater contains nitrogen and phosphorus from human waste, food and certain soaps and detergents."

https://www.epa.gov/nutrientpollutio...ons-wastewater

Most homes and businesses in the US handle their waste water this way.

In contrast all the desalination plants worldwide produce less than 23 billion gallons a day. USA water treatment alone processes one third more water than all desalination plants combined.

Interesting that you have to "guess" about the waste products at Carlsbad. Why don't they explain on their site more about this important issue?

Desalination is just not ready for prime time yet...

The Roaring River plant makes much more economic sense. 

And waste water MUST be treated anyway. You can't just pump into the rivers or sea untreated. That is a dangerous lesson mankind learned the hard way.

----------


## captaind

> Desalination is just not ready for prime time yet...
> 
> The Roaring River plant makes much more economic sense. 
> 
> And waste water MUST be treated anyway. You can't just pump into the rivers or sea untreated. That is a dangerous lesson mankind learned the hard way.



Well said Rob. RR makes the most sense for supply. Disposal must be addressed.

We are after all the "land of wood and water"

Why we suffer for water is another issue <grin>

Cap

----------


## Odinson

Water Wars coming soon! - there are answers to all technical issues, just may take a few more years to resolve them.  Even Bob Marley said, 'Have no fear for atomic energy'!

----------


## johng

Odinson,

Water wars coming soon is no joke!!! It is common knowledge in the US that large tracts of land with known aquifers beneath are being bought up as we speak. Those who own the water will control the world!! Think of the amount of money being made selling a plastic bottle of water for a couple of bucks.

As far as Jamaica goes and especially Negril the problem is two fold as Cap points out, the supply and the disposal. I am far from being a water engineer but obviously with all the development that has occurred in Negril the need for water and where and how to treat it has become a huge problem. Conservation comes to mind. Using as little water as possible while on vacation in Negril is a starting place. Sure you are on vacation spending big $$$ for accommodations some people feel entitled to using as much water as they want. I assume / hope that hotels encourage their guests to be frugal with their water usage as far as bathroom usage goes. The more you use the more to treat. But the bigger problem is the water supply. Hopefully Jamaica and all its Parishes have workable game plans in place.

Back in the 70's before the building boom were there even any water treatment facilities in Negril. As I recall there were few flush toilets and mostly outdoor cold water showers which leads me to believe there was mostly septic tanks and perhaps some direct discharge into the river or sea?? When were the treatment facilities built??

----------


## Rob

Johng,

There were no viable water plants or treatment plants until the mid 90's. Anyone on the West End back then remembers the huge holes in the road for the water and sewage lines​. Hard to miss a dozen 18 foot holes in the road. The construction nearly destroyed the businesses on the West End.

The small community in the 70's and 80's relied on the captured rain water, water trucks and the "wonderful" Elephant septic trucks to remove the waste water. All the water needed to be treated before consuming by boiling or by use of bleach. This situation would be beyond unacceptable today.

There is another water plant location available at Roaring River. Hopefully work will start soon to get this online.

A while back I wrote that Negril grew with little to no formal government planning. An article in today's Gleaner has the Minister of Tourism stating nearly the same thing. He promised this will no longer be the case.

----------


## sabu

Good to know Rob. Thanks for keeping the record straight

----------


## Marko

yeah Bartlett was referring to poor planing of the water, sewer and electric in Negril from the get go back in the day....
now they are trying to play catch up but in Negril the demand is outstripping the supply of everything.....
don't understand what they were thinking when they granted building those hotel projects without the proper infrastructure in place....
all I can say is plan on seeing a lot of utility work going on in and around Negril in the years to come.....
sumthin that should have been done a dozen or two years ago.......oh well

Cool Runnings, Marko

----------


## Biggs of the week

Only time will tell if the improvements can handle the expansion.I pray there are no more water shortages and the sewage can handle all the new toilets flushing.

----------


## Kimbobwee

Can you say ....back-up!?  It's going to get real interesting the next couple of years.  Give thanks and Praise.

----------


## Todd

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/regio...r-Negril_96104

----------


## Marko

well where mi live on the West End.....the wata is going off everyday now......out of control.....kmt

Cool Runnings, Marko

----------


## Bnewb

> well where mi live on the West End.....the wata is going off everyday now......out of control.....kmt


Marko...this is nothing new...it's happening in our yard also and it's been going on for yeeeeaaaars...as you well know.  :Frown: 
New building/construction or not...the water issue is all over the island...this is not just a Negril problem.

When we lived in the West End...we had a half baked water system and of course it led us to the same frustrations you're feeling...but since you're living here full time now...this is easy fix...why don't you have your landlord set up a proper water cistern system...you'll be much, much less frustrated.

It _appears_ that they may be addressing the problem properly/finally.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## dash

Lest us in the civilized world become sanctimonious, lets refer to Victoria British Columbia and it's magnificent sea coast, where they routinely empty their untreated waste water into the ocean. Standard practice!

----------


## captaind

First thing I did when I returned in 2010 was to build a water supply/pumping system from our spring to the yard. 4,000 US well spent

Presently we are supplying washing water to four families in our neighborhood. 

Cap

----------


## Marko

wata problem is by far the worst it's ever been.....even worst than back in 2012/2013......trust mi

Cool Runnings, Marko

----------


## Rob

> wata problem is by far the worst it's ever been.....even worst than back in 2012/2013......trust mi
> 
> Cool Runnings, Marko


LOL! "Worst" than 2012/2013? Living on Lynchtop in the 90's, we would have begged to have the water "problems" experienced in 12/13... or now for that matter.

You know that the citizens/government are addressing the issue, which will take time.  

C'mon man, everyone who has ever lived on the West End experiences this, so why not simply set up an inexpensive tank water system as Bnewb suggested? No expensive pumps required.

----------


## captaind

Linston tells me that the water trucks are 10 deep in line at McBull's spring in Ketto. (my district)

Cap

----------


## Marko

> LOL! "Worst" than 2012/2013? Living on Lynchtop in the 90's, we would have begged to have the water "problems" experienced in 12/13... or now for that matter.
> 
> You know that the citizens/government are addressing the issue, which will take time.  
> 
> C'mon man, everyone who has ever lived on the West End experiences this, so why not simply set up an inexpensive tank water system as Bnewb suggested? No expensive pumps required.


the wata is a serious problem as mi have mentioned......
and yes wi have a wata tank but wi having a hard time getting it filled cause the wata keeps being locked off...
sure back when they tore up and replacing the wata lines on the West End back in the late 90's......especially around 97
there were days and days wi no wata......but now wi back to that kind of situation....and der no utility construction going in the West End

Cool Runnings, Marko

----------


## Rob

> the wata is a serious problem as mi have mentioned......
> and yes wi have a wata tank but wi having a hard time getting it filled cause the wata keeps being locked off...
> sure back when they tore up and replacing the wata lines on the West End back in the late 90's......especially around 97
> there were days and days wi no wata......but now wi back to that kind of situation....and der no utility construction going in the West End
> 
> Cool Runnings, Marko


Marko,

I am laughing at your "by far the worst its ever been" comment. And I hadn't even thought about the construction years. There were months if not years without water. Yes, those years were much worse than today's situation.

Before the mains were put in, the make shift water "system" were small pipes being gravity fed from large tanks on the surrounding hills.

If and when there was any pressure in the line (4am was the most likely time), the water was generally discolored and not suitable for much of anything.

Tank systems were only used by the hotels as most people couldn't afford them or the expensive water truck to fill them with remotely clean water.

Catching rain water was the best choice back then and you hauled​ it around a bucket at a time. I took more bucket showers than I want to remember.

Today, in the worst case scenario, you can call any number of competing services to fill your tank. That is if the main doesn't fill it at night.

Today is in no way "the worst its ever been". Not even close...

----------


## captaind

This is how we got water to Zion Hill. Eight gallons at a time for numerous trips.

----------


## Marko

> Marko,
> 
> I am laughing at your "by far the worst its ever been" comment. And I hadn't even thought about the construction years. There were months if not years without water. Yes, those years were much worse than today's situation.
> 
> Before the mains were put in, the make shift water "system" were small pipes being gravity fed from large tanks on the surrounding hills.
> 
> If and when there was any pressure in the line (4am was the most likely time), the water was generally discolored and not suitable for much of anything.
> 
> Tank systems were only used by the hotels as most people couldn't afford them or the expensive water truck to fill them with remotely clean water.
> ...


actually as far as this guy goes and our lane.....which mi been on since 1996......this is the absolute worst.....trust mi 

Cool Runnings, Marko

----------


## Uncle Johnny

I get it, we get it. You don't want us tourists sucking up YOUR resources. Your life would be so much better without us. New hotels and housing projects... complaints, complaints, complaints. Garbage, sidewalks, horses... complaints, complaints, complaints. Perhaps you should contemplate moving back to your country of origin and leave the vital resources for the Jamaicans who can't leave. Or you could complain to your local government and leave the steady economical stream of tourists alone.

----------


## Bnewb

I've always had the understanding that Jamaica didn't beg me to move here...I've been given the opportunity and privilege to live here for the last 10 years and I don't feel I have the right to beatch about the runnings...Jamaicans are quite capable of handling their complaints/issues.  :Smile: 

Not to pick on Marko's complaints as of late...but there is something called Island Fever and it can get under your skin quite quickly...it sends many packing back to their "country of origin".
One of the issues...too many forget this ain't  :EEK!:  their old home...not everything or anything is going to be done the same way as you've been taught. You can think you know the runnings in Jamaica, you can think you know the language after visiting for years but the reality of your knowledge or lack of knowledge becomes very apparent once you move here FULL time.

Second issue...many that move here expect the same treatment that is given to a tourist and obviously that doesn't and shouldn't happen. If one chooses to move here, you need to understand that you're now part of the environment, you are no longer a tourist.
Particularly in the tourism areas...you are now expected to get by on your own. As I was told countless times by very generous and patient Jamaican friends...you make Jamaica what you want it to be and it will treat you accordingly.

Marko...since you've announced you've recently moved here full time...maybe you can reach out to the politicians instead  of airing your complaints on a tourism related forum...it's obviously not helping tourism based on the comment above.

To anyone thinking of moving to Negril...please remember after you move here you become a member of the community and the tourism industry. You will no longer be viewed as a tourist and will no longer be treated as such...you WILL need to change your thinking and your approach to the different issues that may arise.

I'm no expert or claim to be by any means...but hopefully there is some understanding in my very simple writings that may help someone that is thinking of making the move here.

----------


## TAH

I don't know, I don't think it's a bad thing to discuss on a tourism forum. It helps people see the impact of their choice to stay at the big glitzy AI's, and their impact on the infrastructure and the residents. I think Jamaica as a whole would be much better off without the international hotel chains locking down the coastline. Granted, I'm an ignorant tourist, but that's my perception anyhow.

edit: I'm certainly open to correction/education. Just stating it as I see it.

----------


## Accompong

*You can start off by moving to someplace on the island that doesn't have piped water PERIOD.
My water supply.

*

----------


## Rob

> I don't know, I don't think it's a bad thing to discuss on a tourism forum. It helps people see the impact of their choice to stay at the big glitzy AI's, and their impact on the infrastructure and the residents. I think Jamaica as a whole would be much better off without the international hotel chains locking down the coastline. Granted, I'm an ignorant tourist, but that's my perception anyhow.


TAH,

This topic is quickly becoming more of a "Living In Jamaica" thread, which I will be moving it to later today. It really doesn't effect tourists as most properties have already taken this into account. It should not alter their travel plans to Negril. This is a matter that can only be addressed by the Jamaican government.

That being said, there is always a trade-off with foreign investment. But Jamaica would be in a far worse economic position should the international hotel chains stop investing in our island.

The infrastructure of Jamaica is one of a *developing* country. Water supply is no exception. For Negril, if the afternoon rain continues, the issue will become moot. In the short term, a new water plant at Roaring River will solve the issue. An island wide fix can be obtained by using the Rio Bueno water supply. Future fixes include desalination plants, which would help prevent the inevitable world wide water shortages that our grandchildren will be facing.

The immediate solution to Marko's problem is to call one of the many water trucks and fill up the tank in his yard. You have to pay for water whether it comes from the main or from a truck. Addressing an easily fixed situation on Negril.com as the "worst ever" is not beneficial to the community he has chosen to live, especially when it is not true.

----------


## Rob

> *You can start off by moving to someplace on the island that doesn't have piped water PERIOD.
> My water supply.
> 
> *


Ugh! I remember that... (grin)

----------


## Irine

I can't understand the success of the entire AI industry. You don't meet any Jamaican's, you don't eat locally, visit this sweet culture and people. You may as well be in Florida. And forgive me all you AI people, but the food outside the resorts kicks the crap out of what your eating. I was staying at the point when they were destroying the land to build the new resort where the Grand Pineapple used to be, "somehow" they convinced local authorities to let them go 4 stories instead of the legally adopted 3 stories. Now there is no view of bloody bay from the point, and now how do they say no to everyone else who can afford to "ask" to build 4 stories? Growth is always a struggle, but the government in Jamaica really needs to start protecting Jamaican's. And where does the money go that is spent in the AI's? certainly not to the Jamaican's.

----------


## johng

Hi Irine,

You are treading in a controversial topic as although your questions are justifiable the answers are perhaps not. Do a little research and see who owns the AI's and you will see where the money goes that is spent in the AI's. As they say "Follow the money".

----------


## JohnNYC

I may be wrong, but I thought the Beaches resorts are owned by a Jamaican family.

----------


## Odinson

Just some new-ish technology that is hopefully very close to fruition.  As Rob has stated, low-energy to run it is the key.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...rom-saltwater/

I don't think posting this is a copyright violation as it is open source - but if it is - please take down!

----------

