What has happened to the Jamaicans???

[JitterBug]

booger, please do write on . . . can't ever have too much info . . . to keep safe . . .

[eddiemingus]

The lotto scam is definitely not the main reason of the murders and breakdown of this society. It is a big part in the last ten years but the demise of this country began in the mid 80s. A very large part of the murder rate currently is domestic violence. People who came here in the 80s for the first time don't have the knowledge of what this country was like before the scourage af Cocaine and crack showed up. No burgler bars no guns walk anywhere anytime of day or night. So it's much easier to see just how mashed up this country is from that perspective. This isn't rocket science you dont need all kind of news articles and what not to make any point here, just walk the streets and it's very apparent whats going on here.

[Accompong]

"Americans send millions of dollars to Jamaicans because they "won" millions of dollars in a contest they never entered and need to send payment to collect their "winnings""

The actual quote should have been

Sending money to scammers to collect on Lottery winnings when we didn't even play a lottery and now they fight over the business it brings in.

What you wrote just may actually be true but not what I wrote. The fact remains that a little less than $10,000 US is a Million Dollars in Jamaica so I am pretty sure the volume of money sent would incrementally exceed a million dollars US or much more. The problem is that it isn't only old "non tech savvy" people who are falling for this but also a good number of younger "greedy" people as well. Plus, they give out a lot of personal information that eventually gets used or sold to commit more theft. I live in Jamaica just a few miles from an epicenter of lotto scammers on the St. James/St. Elizabeth border. http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/lates...n-St-Elizabeth Although this started out in the urban centers, the access of island-wide Internet has enabled it to get more popular in rural, less policed areas.

My overall point was not the blaming of anyone, including trusting victims, but to answer JohnGs question which asked "What has happened to the Jamaicans???" It has just gotten too easy to scam and not work, to smuggle and not work and to emigrate and not work instead of an honest hard days work for an honest payment. And, in that, we are making it too easy and thus carry some responsibility for the situation.

I travel as I live. I don't reward bad behavior. That is why I find it rewarding and satisfying to be living in rural Jamaica both giving and receiving Respect!

Peace and Guidance

[johng]

Rob, I have a great deal of respect for your opinions / conclusions especially regarding this particular topic. You live in Jamaica, run Negril.com and are directly in the mainstream of the current comings and goings on the island.

I am the first to admit that the lotto scam that has been causing so much International turmoil is not completely understood by me and that its impact on violence in JA has a direct correlation to what has happened to the Jamaicans over the past several years. Yet deep down inside me knowing as I do so many great Jamaicans that have absolutely nothing to do with the scam I continue to look further and dig deeper.

Accompong, kudos to your comments. We the USA and Western World bring with us wherever we go it seems this negative effect that can have dire consequences to those in our path. I was deeply troubled by a TV program I watched recently on a new US cable channel called VICE. The episode covered the goings on of the current Dancehall / Hip Hop scene in JA. Although Vybes Kartel is in prison he is still somehow able to continue pushing out music and a message. The show talked about the onstage antics / war between Vybes and Mavado and the violence it encouraged. It showed several top female performers with the raunchiest lyrics I have ever heard and believe me there isn't a word I haven't used at some point in my life.

So despite the effects of the Lotto Scam there seems to me that there are many active ingredients at work in Jamaica especially the crack epidemic in the cities. Back in the 70's Ganja was the scourge (or so the government in JA and elsewhere said) so in comparison to the addictive drugs in the South / Central America to Jamaica pipeline of today it was minor in scope.

I love Jamaica and would love to return as soon as tomorrow but I take pause to do so. Me who has criss crossed the island alone several times including hitch hiking is concerned about finding himself on the wrong end of a bad situation where being at the wrong place at the wrong time could prove deadly. This is the only Carib Island I have ever visited counting more than 30 trips so JA is a second home for me. I usually do not allow negative journalism to sway my decisions but I must say that for the first time in my life I question whether I will go back.

Thanks for hearing me out!!
John

[bksmm]

What you wrote just may actually be true but not what I wrote.

Hi Accompong, I was replying to Rob and the quote that I mentioned was his. Sorry if that wasn't clear. While the majority of victims in the lotto scam are the elderly, some younger people are also swayed by the constant schemes and lies of the scammers. I think it's more fair to label the younger victims as naïve or gullible instead of greedy. They grow up under their parents' protection and haven't learned the lesson of hard knocks yet. The "greedy" are the criminals who do deserve all of the blame.

[Marblehead]

I agree with Accompong that WE are what happened to Jamaica. As I was peeping for my first trip in 1984, I came across an article about Jamaica in the High Times. While discussing the mellow vibe and celebrating the ganja culture, the noted a change that was afoot. Cocain and the American's appetite for it. Jamaicans I talked to in Negril voiced similar concerns. By my third trip in '86, the cocain culture had clearly sunk it's claws into the local economy. The laid back vendor that I had previously purchased herbal supplies from had a cadre of minions who pounced on us with entreaties to smoke some "rock". The experience was far worse than my worst interaction with any other vendor, ever. The ferocious addiction of the drug was clearly manifested in their behavior.

Once the door was open for our desire for coke, the cartels made Jamaica a transshipment point. Jamaicans living in the states received and sold shipments of coke and ganja. The vast sums of money bought guns in the US that were sent home to feed the appetite for guns that the national parties had fueled in their fierce competition for power. In the transition from Manley to Seaga, ~700 were killed in political violence. Scale that up to our current population from the Jamaican population at the time. It would be over 100,000 dead. How can this not leave scars that resonate to this day?

[Rob]

The lotto scam is definitely not the main reason of the murders and breakdown of this society. It is a big part in the last ten years but the demise of this country began in the mid 80s. A very large part of the murder rate currently is domestic violence. People who came here in the 80s for the first time don't have the knowledge of what this country was like before the scourage af Cocaine and crack showed up. No burgler bars no guns walk anywhere anytime of day or night. So it's much easier to see just how mashed up this country is from that perspective. This isn't rocket science you dont need all kind of news articles and what not to make any point here, just walk the streets and it's very apparent whats going on here.

Eddie,

As you know, I have been walking the streets of Jamaica everyday and have been doing so for some quarter century. It is very apparent what is going on here which is why I am giving the readers of Negril.com my perspective, and then back it up with facts from the news. A visitor can easily see something and misinterpret it. I cannot count the number of times that visitors have asked me "why are those guys fighting?" and I explain to them they are not fighting, it is just a very animated conversation.

I am sorry that things changed from the idyllic 70's that you so fondly remember. I was not here in the 70's. The year 1975 was over 40 years ago.

Many readers on this board were not even born yet. So other than a nostalgic magical mystery tour which can be fun to read, these 70's references provide no real helpful current information for our visitors.

Nostalgia can be a good thing, bringing back old memories to the present that make us feel good. But they can often be clouded by time. Let us take an actual history trip down memory lane.

The Gun Court Act provided for the establishment of a court in Jamaica to deal particularly with firearms offenses. This was created on April 1st, 1974. The reasons given were because Kingston in March 1974, was a city in the grips of "an upsurge of violence", in the words of then Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions Chester Orr, QC. If there were no guns in the 70's, why was the Gun Court set up in 1974?

And take a close look at this picture that Halfwaytree posted and I am stealing for demonstration purposes. I hope Halfwaytree doesnt mind, but it serves as a perfect moment in history. It was taken in the 60's.



Those iron structures on the windows are commonly referred to as "burglar bars". And they were in place in the 60's. That pokes a major hole in the "no burglar bars anywhere" in the 70's theory. Nostalgia is fine, but it can cloud one's perception of the actual facts.

And Eddie, while you dismiss my use of news sources, your domestic violence comment is quite interesting. Just yesterday there was an article in the Observer, "Domestic Violence Responsible for 60% of St. Mary Murders". Coincidence? The article states that of the 26 murders in the parish of St. Mary, 60% (or 14) are due to domestic violence. Unfortunately there have been more murders in certain parts of the parish of St. James that have absolutely nothing to do with domestic violence. In fact, a small part of the current murder rate is domestic violence. I wish the percentage was zero.

It is an unfortunate reality that the majority of murders currently happening are because of the international lotto scam. Why else would the FBI and ATF open offices here on the island at this time? The FBI is most definitely not here to handle Jamaican domestic violence cases. They are here to put an end to the lotto scam.

[Rob]

Hi Accompong, I was replying to Rob and the quote that I mentioned was his. Sorry if that wasn't clear. While the majority of victims in the lotto scam are the elderly, some younger people are also swayed by the constant schemes and lies of the scammers. I think it's more fair to label the younger victims as naïve or gullible instead of greedy. They grow up under their parents' protection and haven't learned the lesson of hard knocks yet. The "greedy" are the criminals who do deserve all of the blame.

bksmm,

I am in no way blaming the victim, the perpetrator made the contact in the first place. But when trying to explain it, I used quotation marks as no one "won" anything and there were no "winnings" for the non existent lottery. All I can do is help people not become a victim of the scam.

[Rob]

...I was deeply troubled by a TV program I watched recently on a new US cable channel called VICE. The episode covered the goings on of the current Dancehall / Hip Hop scene in JA. Although Vybes Kartel is in prison he is still somehow able to continue pushing out music and a message. The show talked about the onstage antics / war between Vybes and Mavado and the violence it encouraged. It showed several top female performers with the raunchiest lyrics I have ever heard and believe me there isn't a word I haven't used at some point in my life....

Thanks for hearing me out!!
John

Johng,

Thank you for your comments. And I do want you to understand the pieces of the puzzle. Please give a little more thought about digging deeper into the lotto scam. It may be much more influential than you realize.

One thing I want to mention is that TV show Viceland on the Vice network. According to the creative director Spike Jonze that unlike the HBO content, Viceland would be "far from objective [reporting]". I have been on a reality TV show and very little of it was "real". There were set up scenes, pre-picked characters, multiple takes from multiple camera angles and even impromptu scripting. And that does not include any of the post production editing and final version for public consumption. Viceland is targeted to millennials who want strong view points - not objective reporting. Please keep that in mind.

[captaind]

I have been reticent to post to this thread but here goes,

It's been 48 years since I first went to Jamaica for a job interview. I got the job and lived in Kingston. I've owned property outside of Negril for 43 years. Raised and educated two children.

Jamaica is still Jamaica but the whole world has changed and Jamaica with it. Times are different in so many ways. The world is connected by a neural net of data and that in itself changed everything. Jamaica used to move at the speed of a man on a donkey...no longer. To me it is a waste of time to live in the past. Love the memories but "be here now"
I am investing in Jamaica and it's future. The crime thing will be controlled. My roots go deep and I know that most Jamaicans have had enough.

My words aren't sufficient to express my thoughts so I'll quit for now. But be advised that I go home to Zion Hill every month or so.

Cap