Bravo, bravo!
Well said Rob and Bnewb.
Bravo, bravo!
Well said Rob and Bnewb.
i,m with MARBLEHEAD..........cheers...>>>>>>>>>i call it getting smarter not older
ps. right behind you .............i owe you a drink..the good stuff
My idea of "living in Jamaica" is leaving the midwest the day after Christmas and returning to the states March 1st and hoping I don't have any medical issues in between....anyway, that's my retirement plan.......
This is my 8th year living in Negril. I have an apartment but I don’t have residency. Jamaica has become my home and I ‘visit’ my country, where I don’t have a permanent home. Its worked good for me to go back and forth. When I’m in the US things move very fast because I need to find things to do to keep my mind busy until I return to Jamaica. When I go to Jamaica I get to relax, but I still have plenty of interests, I just put them off more
In the early years I prepared to apply for residency but my interpretation of their phrasing for qualification turned out to be different than theirsHowever the wording of some requirements have changed over the years and I may qualify now. After residency was a bust I spent about 2 years exploring business ideas and the requirements for starting a business in Jamaica, but I didn’t have a compelling enough idea to carry me through the challenges of doing it in Jamaica, and eventually it became a relief to let it go.
I generally have good experiences in Jamaica. Only 1 relationship, so a good reputation in that regard. I stick with his family, and stay out of other people’s business. Even among close siblings, they don’t know each other’s personal business. One time a couple of us were hanging out so I said, “What can we talk about that isn’t private?” They laughed, and I waited for one of them bring up a safe topic.
I make an effort to get out a couple times a week for a drink or a meal, just to be around other people. Unless its a concert I don’t feel a need to be ‘with’ anyone, and I love to read. It seems best that I only get together with friends who are here on vacation. Partly because I move to the beat of my own schedule, LOL. In other part because I don’t want to get into other people’s personal business, nor discuss mine. Sometimes I see people that I know who they are, I am tempted to say hello but then I think ‘what’s the point?’ I’m not going to move in their circle nor they in mine. A lot of ‘un-necessaries’ drop away in Jamaica. I prefer interacting with street vendors, store employees and other shoppers. That way its ‘business not personal’ in a friendly and often fun environment.
For me, family, faith, governance and politics ARE good topics with Jamaicans, perhaps because I’ve studied and experienced quite a bit in recent years, and I am closer to their beliefs now than I used to be on some topics. I ask questions and they ask me questions. However, the closer the conversation gets to topics in Negril or their town/parish, the less I give an opinion, because I truly don’t know enough nor have lived here enough to have any realistic input.
I try to follow what I’ve been taught, that is, to think like a Jamaican. At first it seemed so different than I was used to (and I argued against it) but eventually I learned to appreciate the wisdom and now it comes more naturally. I can usually tell at once when I’ve done or said something I shouldn’t have, or missed something that I should have picked up on.
American-thinking doesn’t seem to be all that useful in Jamaica but, Jamaican-thinking proves useful everywhere I go
Example, the power of observation and trusting my 'sense' about things: recently I rented a studio (in the US) for a week through VRBO, have never met nor seen an image of the owner. After a couple days in the place I concluded the owner must be pretty tall, just by how they had a few things set up in the room. I was thinking 6’2” but downplayed the number to 5’10” in case he wasn’t that tall or I was way off. He admitted he’s tall and in a later conversation that his original height was 6’2” but he had lost some due to an injury.
Picking sense out of nonsense: I clicked on a cable tv show “90 Day Fiance” – Americans and their foreign boyfriend/girlfriend. For the most part I understood the perspective of the foreigners, and they were reasonable and decent people. For the most part I saw how the behavior, expectations and attitudes of the Americans caused problems in the relationships. A lot of Americans especially women, would not see it the way I’ve learned to see it.
Some folks complain “Nothing in Jamaica is what it seems.” I say, ‘Nothing in Jamaica is AS THEY SEE IT’.
Jamaica is full of wisdom for the ‘foolish’, but can appear foolish to the ‘wise’.
I’ve made a couple attempts to have a ‘friendship’ with other expats but so far it hasn’t worked out, because we see Jamaica differently and move differently. It is more important to give priority to my existing relationships and maintain my reputation, safety and well-being than any ‘friendship’.
I am happy renting an apartment; owning property would be more work, cost and worry. I like my landlord and I get along with the other folks that live in the yard. By get along I mean, if we pass or see each other eye to eye, we say hello. We don’t try to be friends or hang out. We might offer excess produce or lend a hand for a moment’s task or have a brief chat about a sport event, but its rare. They welcome me back and I’m glad to see them, but we don't need to ‘know’ each other.
I wouldn't move to Jamaica with an American (or other foreign) spouse, there is so much neither of us would know, we'd just be coming with our own ideas. I know I've had good instruction by my good experiences. When I try doing things my own way they don't work out as well as using what I've been taught and learned about Jamaica.
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Lola you spoke my mind so well thank you. I no longer hang out with expats, snow birds or any other visitors to the island. I did not move down here to hang out with white people. All the major problems I've had here are because of those people. I live with a jamaican family I've known for 43 years and its a large family so I have many friends with them and that is more than enough for my social needs. One of them is a doctor another one just finished pre law at U.W.I. and graduated this year. And yes you must think like a jamaican you don't need to speak potois but using their phrases and following their manners goes a long way. They do give me some static for not trying to speak potois but its just friendly kidding. I love it here but im constantly on my gaurd and that has now become second nature so it's no big deal. Any how one love to all.
Hey Lola...your post was quite thought provoking, very open and honest.Originally Posted by Lola
The two lines that resonate with me the most I've bolded above. I think I'd shared years ago with you about having to change my thinking very quickly when I first moved down here and particularly in the context you've described. I made a few enemies right off the hop when women were contacting me to check on their boyfriends and I refused (this was before Facebook got busy). The 90 Day Fiance show should contact me...I have a few words and stories for them.
Unfortunately, one of the down falls for women (and men) that aren't able to survive here...is that they don't change their thinking. Some are not always able, as they've gotten into relationships that bound them into one perspective.
I've seen the same thing happen even with non romantic relationships...visitors will come down, meet a "friend" and take their word as gospel to all things Jamaican but, Jamaicans are like any other human...they all have their own opinions and beliefs about the world as they view it. Meeting people all over the island or even more than one or two families in Negril...can give someone a much more wonderfully balanced perspective about Jamaicans as a whole.
This can directly determine the success or failure of those moving here. With limited information you're setting yourself up for failure.
And, for those that really want to try living here...be gentle with yourself...give yourself some time...and be prepared to view things quite differently than you might have when coming from your own country.
By being able to change how you view things down here...you'll be able to see it from a Jamaican perspective...you'll be able to see it exactly...as it seems!
And just for the record...there's white Jamaicans also Chinese, Indian ++, all born and raised here...some famous, some not so famous. Personally...I just want to hang out with fabulous, down to earth people and have been lucky enough to surround myself with many!!
^^^Clap, clap Lisa! Same with me "just want to hang out with down to earth people" !
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm not that cerebral about my relationships in Jamaica. My kids are just that. My family is just that also. After 43 years in the same district most everybody knows me. I speak patios when in Jamaica (albeit with a NE Florida/ South Philly accent) and have embraced the good, bad and ugly of life there.
I'm a member of the Masonic Lodge in Sav and have friends across the financial and educational spectrum. I do what I say I will. I don't lie or gossip and stay out of other people's business. I just returned after two weeks and never went to Negril once.
I do like meeting boardies and other visitors. It's helps with our business (Linston's Zion Hill Taxi) and I enjoy the social intercourse. Can't say I know even one ex pat.
As I say I'm not that cerebral.
Cap
Linston's Zion Hill Taxi
Captain Dave
Ummm...Capt...don't you know Rob or Chris at Seastar or even me?
I know you well enough to know I can tease you this way!
Wow Lola,
You have spent a lot of time thinking about Jamaica, yourself and how you fit into your life situations. I have visited JA and Negril many times and have thought, as probably most everybody does at one time or other, how cool it would be to live in JA full time or a good portion of time. The realities as you point out are different than the perceptions.
I have seen many visitors / tourists, especially in Negril that really do not have an understanding of how life would be there. I met a family, husband, wife, two or 3 little kids between 5 and ten years old. They had never been to Jamaica before and had left British Columbia with the intention of moving to Negril based on what they had read and heard about the place. This was back in 1977 or so. They thought that Negril was going to be this utopia with no problems, the land of milk and honey. I remember them telling me that when the immigration officer at Sangster asked how long they were staying they replied "We're moving here" and the officer just chuckled and replied something along the lines of " Oh well maybe yes, maybe no". Too make a long story short after a few days of the tropical heat I could tell that they were not at all prepared for the realities of everyday life in Negril and with each passing day the optimism was replaced with realism. Their stay ended in disappointment after a week or so.
The reason I bring that up is because for every Cap, and Bnewb, Rob, Lola there are thousands that have passed though. Many really good people, some bad people but the place as a home is not for everybody. The best case scenario seems to be a Florida resident who owns, rents a house or apartment in Jamaica / Negril and is able to balance their lives back and forth. For me I have my Paradise North in Maine in the summer but I am pondering, thinking about an opportunity in a tropical climate that is close enough to NYC airports (4-6 hour flights) to be able to have a Paradise South from December through May or June.
We should each write a chapter of our stories and experiences in Negril and Jamaica and compile them. It would make an awesome read!!!
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