Fruits & Veggies

[*vi*]

Rob,

The custom form reads:

"I am bringing: (a) fruits, plants, cut flowers, vegetables, soil, meat, live animals and organisms, honey, wildlife products, plant material, food, animal products or live birds. Yes or No"

Directly over the signature line, this can’t be ignored

"I declare that the information given at the front and reverse of this form is true and correct. I understand that the failure to make a full declaration is an offence and may result in fines, forfeiture of the goods and/or imprisonment. I also understand that I have the right to appeal. 6 Country of Issue: Other (Please state) (a) fruits, plants, cut flowers, vegetables, soil, meat, live animals and organisms, honey, wildlife products, plant material, food, animal products or live birds."

On the back,

"If you are in doubt, declare all your goods to the Customs Officer"

So instead of checking “no” which would not be the truth, I checked “yes” and listed the items. That’s when the customs officer explained to me that Question 13a is for merchants who import goods to the wharf for resale therefor an official permit is required. That made sense to me. Fruits, plants, cut flowers, vegetation in mass quantities can present potential infestations of some sort if they were not declared and inspected upon arrival. He was stern in telling me I was not violating any law and not to list foods, in this case limes, for personal consumption on the customs form.

How can you say I am “suggesting that others should break the law” when according to the experience I related I was told by the authorities who make the laws and are paid to enforce the laws inform me I’m NOT breaking the law? If anything I was guilty of wasting their time.

I know you are adamant about not tolerating wrong information to be posted on Negril.com. I definitely support that effort. When I realized, by Bnewb’s and your responses to my statements and my explanations, there was a possible conflict of the understanding of the “restriction” and who it is directed to I respectfully suggested you provide the reason customs (the law enforcers) allow me and many others to continually take fruit into Jamaica freely, without legal repercussions. Or perhaps ask a customs official to interpret that particular question on the customs form to see if it matches the one I received from a customs official.

IMO you receiving then communicating official clarification would be a more constructive way to administratively provide your readers with the correct information than to publicly accuse someone of doing something illegal.

[*vi*]

Rob,

The ludicrous remark was not directed at you or Bnewb. I admit I wrote it out of frustration reacting to another comment and I do apologize for that. I took everything you both posted seriously and respectfully.

[jojo p]

Hi Lady Vi !!!!

[*vi*]

Vi,

...Since when is saving a dollar worth risking the agriculture of another country? Do you have so little regard for another country that you will disregard their laws in order to save a buck?

Rob,

I have tremendous regard for Jamaica. That's why I faced the custom official to make sure I wasn't violating any laws. My regard for the well-being of Jamaica is also evident in my trip reports. It's not about saving a dollar. Believe me, I spend plenty there.

[*vi*]

LOL hello jojo my ray-of-sunshine

[captaind]

It would seem the customs officer you spoke with didn't know what he/she was talking about.

Cap

[TAH]

Tah,

Everyone is allowed to share their experiences and knowledge, including Vi, Bnewb or any one here. Bnewb's personal experience has not been the same as Vi's. Bnewb was told and has seen something completely different from what Vi has experienced. Everyone should be entitled to their own personal experiences and I hope that you are not trying to insinuate that one experience is "more real" than another.

Getting back to the actual subject, there are many places to stop on the way to Negril from the airport and buy whatever fresh fruits and vegetables that you want. As for bringing them from your home country, nothing in anyone's personal experience changes the fact, as stated on the official Jamaica Customs Agency website, that bringing in fruits and vegetables is illegal. And the reason is to protect the local produce from harmful pests and diseases. Bringing fruits or vegetables to the island is illegal. Simple.

Whenever someone wants to persist in providing wrong information to others based on their own experience, then they should and will be challenged as their personal experience does not change the law.

Because of this, I have to disagree with your logic. It would be in poor taste to jump on Vi for her personal experience. But no one is doing that. Vi is being challenged for suggesting that others should break the law based on her personal experience. The reactions to her posts are appropriate and necessary because of this fact.

As I have stated before, I hope that new visitors as well as returning visitors think twice before bringing things to the island that are illegal and have the potential to harm the local ecosystem.

Rob,
I'm not at all suggesting that anyone's experience is more real than anyone else's. I just felt like you guys basically told vi that her experience wasn't valid. I've expressed similar sentiment on here in the past. You guys can come off as being pretty hostile to anyone who disputes something you say. I definitely understand the position that you're in, and I honestly appreciate the effort to get accurate info out there. My issue comes in how it's handled, on occasion. I think that drives away some people from your site, whether intended or not. Take that fwiw, or toss it out the window.

[TAH]

Vi,

I do not find anything funny at all with this. More sad in my perspective. Since when is saving a dollar worth risking the agriculture of another country? Do you have so little regard for another country that you will disregard their laws in order to save a buck?

The ones who say it is illegal to bring fruits or vegetables to Jamaica are called the Jamaica Customs Agency. Since they wrote the laws and they are the ones to enforce it, I tend to use them as the source. The penal code associated with this is located in both the Customs Act and the Customs (Amendment) Act 2014. Here is the link to the wording on the Jamaica Customs Agency website:

https://www.jacustoms.gov.jm/customs-legislations

You may consider it ludicrous, but if you follow the number of eco-systems effected by invasive species, pests and diseases world wide then you would never call it ludicrous.

You say you asked for clarification about this. Bnewb posted a link for you from Jamaica Customs and you dismissed it. I gave you information and you dismissed it. Others have chimed and have also been dismissed. It seems that if the clarification doesnt agree with your experience so that you can bring in items that you should not, then it is dismissed.

Ludicrous? Interesting word...

See, this comment is what I'm talking about above. It's how you handle things. Again, I get having a responsibility to inform, but a modicum of respect would go a long way. Vi has contributed a lot to this site over the years.

[Rob]

Rob,

The custom form reads:

"I am bringing: (a) fruits, plants, cut flowers, vegetables, soil, meat, live animals and organisms, honey, wildlife products, plant material, food, animal products or live birds. Yes or No"

Directly over the signature line, this can’t be ignored

"I declare that the information given at the front and reverse of this form is true and correct. I understand that the failure to make a full declaration is an offence and may result in fines, forfeiture of the goods and/or imprisonment. I also understand that I have the right to appeal. 6 Country of Issue: Other (Please state) (a) fruits, plants, cut flowers, vegetables, soil, meat, live animals and organisms, honey, wildlife products, plant material, food, animal products or live birds."

On the back,

"If you are in doubt, declare all your goods to the Customs Officer"

So instead of checking “no” which would not be the truth, I checked “yes” and listed the items. That’s when the customs officer explained to me that Question 13a is for merchants who import goods to the wharf for resale therefor an official permit is required. That made sense to me. Fruits, plants, cut flowers, vegetation in mass quantities can present potential infestations of some sort if they were not declared and inspected upon arrival. He was stern in telling me I was not violating any law and not to list foods, in this case limes, for personal consumption on the customs form.

How can you say I am “suggesting that others should break the law” when according to the experience I related I was told by the authorities who make the laws and are paid to enforce the laws inform me I’m NOT breaking the law? If anything I was guilty of wasting their time.

I know you are adamant about not tolerating wrong information to be posted on Negril.com. I definitely support that effort. When I realized, by Bnewb’s and your responses to my statements and my explanations, there was a possible conflict of the understanding of the “restriction” and who it is directed to I respectfully suggested you provide the reason customs (the law enforcers) allow me and many others to continually take fruit into Jamaica freely, without legal repercussions. Or perhaps ask a customs official to interpret that particular question on the customs form to see if it matches the one I received from a customs official.

IMO you receiving then communicating official clarification would be a more constructive way to administratively provide your readers with the correct information than to publicly accuse someone of doing something illegal.

Vi,

Now that we have gotten past the laughter, I am glad you mentioned the Immigration/Customs Form C5. This is the form everyone arriving in Jamaica fills out. It has changed slightly over the years, but always seems to collect the same information. This will be in depth because you want a full explanation. Before we get into the information provided by the actual government agencies and news outlets, lets examine the form C5.

Item 13 states the following, as you have in your previous post:

"13 I am bringing: (a) fruits, plants, cut flowers, vegetables, soil, meat, live animals and organisms, honey, wildlife products, plant material, food, animal products or live birds."

The Customs Officer explained to you that 13a is for merchants and not to list foods. Now lets look at item 16. Item 16 reads as the following:

"16 I have gifts or articles for resale"

Now reasonably this would apply directly to merchants as their business is having articles for sale. If 13a was meant for merchants and foods, why does item 16 exist. If both apply to merchants then this would seem like duplicate work for the Customs Officer.

If you look to the back of the form you will see 2 lines describing items 13 to 16. they read as follows:

"If you have checked 12A only and checked NO to 13, 14, and 15 or 16, please use the GREEN LINE
If you have checked YES in any of the boxes above, please use the RED LINE"

So if you have marked yes to 13a, 13b, 13c, 13d, 14, 15 or 16, you are to go to the Declare line for Customs. There is no differentiation made for items 13 and 16. Once again, if 13a applies only to merchants, then 16 would be duplication of work.

And below that is "If you are in doubt, declare all your goods to the Customs Officer." The form asks you to declare everything if you have any question about what is what. Obviously they want you, as a visitor to Jamaica, to be sure and declare all that is necessary. It doesn't appear like they consider that a waste of time.

Time to start looking at the information that has been posted on government websites. We could rely simply on the people we know, some friends, who work in Customs, but then you would not be able to verify that information. So to the source we go!

The Jamaica Customs Agency website under FAQ, item 6 states as follows:

"6. Why are fruits and vegetables restricted items? Ans: To prevent the importation of pests and plant diseases which may be present in these produce which can pose a threat to our food security. The requisite permit is needed before bringing these items."

So now we have written documentation from the JCA directly saying that fruits and vegetables are restricted as a security measure. No mention is made about merchants but more tourist personal use when you read item 1 in the FAQ:

"1. I would like to take with me my turkey and ham for my Christmas vacation, is this allowed? Ans: The importation of meats whether processed or not is restricted and will require a permit from our Ministry of Agriculture before importation."

So now meats have been specifically mentioned as restricted. Meats also happen to be mentioned in 13a. The above FAQ most certainly does not apply to merchants as the question is worded more from a tourist, or at best a returning resident after spending many Christmas' in foreign.

From the Jamaica Post (government snail mail) website, "Fruits, Vegetable, Plants & Plant Products" are listed as Prohibited Items along with meats.

https://jamaicapost.gov.jm/prohibited-items/

From the Jamaica Gleaner, November 2012, Restricted and Prohibited Items:


"The most popular items on the restricted list include (but are not limited to):


*Meat, animals, red peas, fruits, vegetables, plants/plant products, ground provisions, milk-based products which all require a Permit or Phyto Sanitary Certificate from the Ministry of Agriculture."

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...items_13109202

And from USA Today, Travel Tips:

"Certain items must have special approval to be brought into Jamaica. Any meat and animal products brought in must have certificates of inspection from the Government Veterinary Division or Ministry of Agriculture and an import license. Firearms, ammunition and explosives must be accompanied by an import permit and license. All plants, including fruits and vegetables, as well as soil must have a Phyto Sanitary Certificate from the Ministry of Agriculture."

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/items...ca-110145.html

There seems to be a pattern forming, and it relates to the restricted items mentioned in 13a, all of which apply to everyone and not merchants only.

The reason all this sounds repetitive is because they are all derived from the Jamaica Plants (Quarantine) Act:

http://moj.gov.jm/sites/default/file...e%29%20Act.pdf

Honey is another restriction in 13a. The Ministry of Agriculture said in 2015: "Illegally imported bee products, honey and pollen can introduce bee pests and diseases that will affect the health of the local bees stock. For example, if imported honey reaches the hands of the consumer and is used, usually the empty containers are disposed of as waste."

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Ministry--No-imported-honey--honeybee-products-allowed_19240109

Honey production can be harmed by disposed containers. This is why you cannot bring in your own honey.

Meats, live animals and animal products are also restricted in 13a and have their own importation restriction definitions: "ALL LIVE ANIMALS AND PRODUCTS OF ANIMAL ORIGIN ARE SUBJECT TO VETERINARY CONTROL IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ANIMALS (DISEASES AND IMPORTATION) ACT OF 1948. Travellers are required by law to declare all products of animal origin."

http://www.moa.gov.jm/VetServices/data/DOMESTIC%20IMPORT%20OF%20ANIMAL%20and%20animal%20p roducts%20document%20for%20NMIA%20and%20MBJ.pdf

Travellers are specifically mentioned in this quarantine notice. This notice covers non-commercial, domestic personal use importation, meaning no merchants. So now back to 13a.

Even if you dismiss the website words from the Jamaica Customs Agency as well as our own personal discussions with friends and other agents who work at the JAC, there are still many others that back up the fact that bringing fruits, including limes, is illegal for everyone and more than that, a simply dangerous thing to do for Jamaica.

You may not feel that a single person bringing in limes makes a difference. Even one can have an effect. Please read the honey link. But it isnt only one. If just one percent of the annual visitors to Negril bring in illegal fruits, that is over 5000 people! In the end is having to have limes from home when Jamaican lime juice is always available really worth risking the agricultural safety of Jamaica?

[gregandkelly63]

There will always someone that thinks the laws don't apply to them. smh