I didn't think you were being uppity or holier than thou. I got what you were saying.Originally Posted by Jbizek
I didn't think you were being uppity or holier than thou. I got what you were saying.
I haven't used the route system before, but I am considering it. To me, it is a form of public transportation akin to the urban bus systems or rails. My family has exclusively used the charter taxis and we took a fleecing. I promise we paid more than we ever did in NOLA, NYC, Miami, etc.! There are obviously many route taxis and I can't see how tourists would take over and keep Jamaicans from having rides. SweetSue nailed it with the term paternalism. I view using the route taxis as contributing to the local economy.
My husband and I recently took our first non all inclusive trip to Negril in December. We stayed on the beach and the very first time trying to go to the cliffs for dinner totally turned us off from making a second trip. Taxi driver who pulled up to us at CCLP wanted US$25. for 2 of us. After reading this board and hearing that we should not pay that much for a taxi we turned him down. Unfortunately we then walked out to the road and used a white plate without realizing it until we got in for our ride back to CCLP after dinner. Round trip was $15. The whole thing just seemed too confusing and stressful to even bother trying it again so the other 8 nights we just dined within walking distance of our hotel or at our hotel. Wouldn't it benefit the businesses on both the beach and cliffs if there was a standard price for beach hotel to cliff restaurant without having to haggle or pay a ridiculous price? We would have certainly made more trips to the cliffs. The point of vacation is to "destress". Not get stressed.
many restaurants offer either a free pick-up or free delivery, we usually call for pick-up and negotiate our return, there is often a driver hanging out at the bar etc.
I'll tip the pick-up driver and usually pay $1000J for the return ride for the two of us
This goes for travel ANYWHERE...
If you get in a cab, especially one that is not on a meter, make sure you negotiate and know the cost of your trip [U]FIRST!!/U] There are those who will rip you off if they think they can. It is not representative of the entire industry, but some folks get greedy. I recently met two young girls from A Canada who said a driver offered to take them from the Negril Beach Condos to the Hi-Lo for $20. Fortunately for them, they were smart enough to say "No Thanks."
Another caution, especially when traveling alone (as I usually do) - stick to the cabs with the red plate. And if you have a cell phone, get a few numbers of reliable drivers. If you are out late, need a ride and don't feel comfortable - better to have someone to call. It's worth the extra $.
I have much respect for those in the taxi industry. I used to drive livery cab in NYC back in the day. I know what it is to have to hustle and how much tips can mean at the end of the day.
Our one dinner on the cliffs was at Catcha and we wanted to go for the sunset too. They said they couldn't pick us up until 7PM. Our dinner reservation was at 6:30. Sunset was at 5:30 Should have gone at 7 because 4 drinks at the bar before dinner was over $50. Dinner was another $100. Would love to stay there but wouldn't rush right back for dinner. It wasn't worth it. Add on the price of a taxi and it was an expensive night! Will definitely ask for free pick up the next time where ever we go.
To clarify a few points...
The route taxi system IS a public transportation system. It was designed to allow the residents of the island to have an inexpensive yet efficient means of getting to and from work, the stores, etc. It was not created with the ever expanding tourist trade in mind. There was a secondary system created to serve the tourist industry, the charter taxi services.
This may be your perception, but it is not the truth in the situation. Route taxis dont "sit idle" - they are constantly driving their route - thus the name "route taxi". Route taxis have their route clearly painted on the side of the vehicle. There are only so many route taxis to serve each route so as not to make it unfair for any of the drivers.
Route taxis can be full anytime of the day. By their nature, people hop on and hop off where they want. If a route taxi is turning around to head back the other way on their route, they may wait just a moment or two to see if anyone at the end of the route needs a ride. But if no one comes in a couple minutes, they will then head off on their designated route. If you see someone waiting for a full load before venturing off - they may be a long distance route taxi (such as Negril to Sav) or just a charter taxi capitalizing on the route - which is frowned upon by the true route taxi operators. No route taxi operator relies on tourists, they will accept their fare, but they do not rely on them.
This seems to be adding a whole unnecessary element to what is actually a very simple concept. EVERYONE pays the same in a route taxi. There is never any reason to tip - residents do not tip for this standard service. So, in reality, by tipping a route taxi operator you may be inadvertently perpetuating the myth of the rich foreigner spoken of above.
This also strikes me as an interesting comment. The charter taxi operator is equally Jamaican as the beach vendor - why is paying for the services of one over the other better? And to point out a simple fact, the charter taxi operator has a much higher overhead regarding vehicle payments, maintenance, gas, insurance, licenses, etc., than does the beach vendor. And please remember, that beach vendor is probably wanting to get home as soon as possible and they will be using the route taxi system.
In the larger cities in Jamaica, you will see urban bus systems used for public transportation. For the more rural areas, the route taxi system is used instead as a large scale bus system would be impractical. Simple economics. If you "take a fleecing" on charter taxis, please be aware that you should always negotiate a rate in advance for the charter taxi. If you agree to the price in advance, how could that possibly be a fleecing? If you didnt negotiate a price in advance, now you know to do so and that will eliminate any fleecing issue.
This addresses a great issue that should be discussed a bit more, as route taxis can be stressful in their own way. A uniform pricing has been discussed for years here in Negril, we have taken part in many meetings with the local business owners and discussed this very issue. To be honest, I personally dont see any workable solution to this in the short term, all options have been put on the plate, and there have been downsides to each of the options mentioned. Until the time that a uniform pricing for charter services have been arranged, here is a good way to deal with the situation mentioned above. When you encounter any charter taxi, it is up to the driver to accept your offer or not. If they suggest $25, and you only want to pay $15 - let them know. If they dont accept it, then wait on the next charter driver who will probably be along any second. As a general rule of thumb, if you are inside the resort grounds, you are going to be paying more than if you are picked up on the road. Door to door charter service charges more than road pick ups and drop offs.
This is not accurate. The route taxi system was created by the government in order to address the public transportation needs of the local populace. They are assigned specific routes that they are to adhere to, and charge a set fee for that route. There are a limited number of route taxis assigned to each route so that each driver makes enough to continue operating and making sure the needs of the residents are served.
Living here, both Lisa and I know this whole situation intimately. There are many dynamics involved. I will only cover a few of them, so here goes:
The following example is to provide some simple rational for using charter taxis. Lets say a couple is heading from CCLP to 3-Dives for dinner. A route taxi would currently cost js$200 per person and can involve two separate taxis - one on the beach road and one up the West End and could involve many other stops with passengers getting in and out of the taxis. The cost would be js$400 for the couple or just about us$5 for a one way trip for the couple.
In order to prevent the issues of the multiple taxis, and the various stops with other passengers entering and leaving the vehicle, a charter taxi can be negotiated. Offering a charter us$5 for the trip would obviously be on the low side, since the route taxi can make more money as they can fit up to 5 passengers in the vehicle. So I would start the offer to the charter taxi driver at around us$10 for that approximately 6 mile trip. If you pay us$15 - it is not out of line and there is no fleecing involved, it is a fair deal. You are paying not to have to change taxis, not to make other stops and not to have other passengers in the vehicle. It is a spot to spot private ride.
The example of the mother getting off her job and wanting to get home happens thousands of times a day in Negril. And the reality behind the situation is not always apparent to visitors to the island. The example happens more often than a visitor may think.
And finally, living here we do have a different take on the route taxi. Since we operate a vehicle here, we both feel a bit uncomfortable when we have to take a route taxi and pay the operator that very low rate for their service. We know the cost of operating a vehicle, the route taxi rate seems incredibly low. But once again, the route taxi system was designed to provide affordable transportation for the local population so the rate needs to be low otherwise no one could afford it.
Negril.com - For the vacation that never ends!
Btw, if folks tip Route Taxis it would be out of habit. Tipping your cab driver is standard, here, at least.
Awaiting our return to Negril, 07/01/12
[QUOTE=Rob;33239]To clarify a few points...
ROB - I get what you are saying about tips in Route Taxis - BUT, I tip on Holidays, or if a drive makes some special accomodation for me - not excessively, just to be courteous.
Also, it was my understanding - and I have seen this in other countries besides Jamaica - that the route system more or less started informally and then as it grew, became REGULATED by the Government. I am certain that there was some informal system before the Taxi Associations were formed. And the guys often wait at one end or the other to "fill up" before moving on. That has been my experience at the Round A bout,at Wharf Road in Orange Bay and at the depot in Lucea.
"And finally, living here we do have a different take on the route taxi. Since we operate a vehicle here, we both feel a bit uncomfortable when we have to take a route taxi and pay the operator that very low rate for their service. We know the cost of operating a vehicle, the route taxi rate seems incredibly low. But once again, the route taxi system was designed to provide affordable transportation for the local population so the rate needs to be low otherwise no one could afford it. "
I understand your thoughts on the low rate vs the cost of gasoline, but believe me it works out. That's why the fares were increased. When I drove livery cab, we used to make money as long as we booked a certain amount per mile. It was feast or famine but if you know how to hustle, there is money to be made. I especially loved the train stop runs where we had a route picking up at the subway, 5 fares to a car, and dropping off in the neighborhood. It was only $1 per person but those short trips really add up. Same thing as in JA. On a good day, driver can collect >100 fares and spend less than $3000 in gas. Plus, a lot of them seem to always have a side job doing private gigs as well. They can make a living.
To answer your question, I like to try and spread the money around. It's very expensive to use a tour service when you just want to run to the HiLo or to the west end. And it's going to effect how much money I spend at vendors and in bars. I'm pretty shocked at the reactions, my posts were not meant to offend or paint me as an uppity person. I clicked on this thread to learn something, we're spending 2 weeks next time and we can no way afford to use a charter service for short runs around Negril so I thought route taxis might be a way of spreading our budget out further. So what are our choices? Just stay within walking distance of our hotel for the most part? Which is what we did last time. Or try the Route Taxis? Isn't it more "responsible" of us to explore and spend our cash at a wide varieties of shops,drivers,bar and restaurants? During our first trip we didn't leave the beach to eat or drink was to expensive to get a ride anywhere else.
I'm well aware charter services have higher overhead. Rocky picked us up in MoBay when our cruise docked there and he was in his awesome new bus, I can only imagine the cost of gassing it up as well as upkeep. I have no problem with the rates but they aren't feasible for short trips. I'd also add when using charter we pay with American cash not J's.
Honestly this thread has left a really bad taste in my mouth as well as left me even more confused. I do wonder what a route taxi driver would have to say about this topic. Finally, I think it's BS to expect tourists to pony up more, doing so just leaves the tourist with less money to spend elsewhere. How is that fair to the vendors? I get that tourists can be *******s. On our first trip I saw plenty of behavior from others that embarrassed if not down right pissed me off. I don't want to be that person. I want to be a good repersenative of my country. But I don't want to be taken advantage of either or made to feel guilty either. And that is something this thread is quickly devolving into. To that, I say No Thank You.
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