On the Subject of Taxis....

[Rob]

...I'm not getting how it can be a bad thing for any of the red plates and/or locals. I could see if every tourist there is using the route taxi system, but that will never be the case. The majority I would think, wouldn't be comfortable with it.

i'd like to hear/read HOW it's impacting,
'cause i'm having a VERY-hard time imagine-ing this being the case

.
p.s. ----- my observation/experience has been that a lot of ex-pats, or folks who spend a lot of time in Negril, get sucked-up into the *game*, and too-frequently skew the information to enhance the profits of the Negril tourist industry.

I am puzzled as to why this is such a hard thing for some to accept. This is a very simple concept folks. Perhaps the reason why some think there is no impact on the transportation needs of the local populace is that those people are here for short periods of time and have no year round experience to draw from. What happens during busy season cannot be applied to slow times, and vice versa. Or maybe they are just not paying close enough attention to the reality to discern the truth.

The current route taxi system in Jamaica was NOT DESIGNED WITH VISITORS TO THE ISLAND IN MIND. While there is no rule, no law that states a tourist cannot use the route taxis (in fact, the drivers are required to pick up everyone who wants a ride - without discrimination), there is a common sense impact that must be present when one thinks about the issue.

There are clues for everyone to see that the route taxi public transportation was NOT designed with visitors in mind. The obvious first clue is visible to every single visitor who comes out of the airport - the public transportation bus stop is OUTSIDE the airport on the main road, not inside the airport where you arrive with your baggage. You would have to haul your bags outside the airport to get the public transportation. The previous government thought about changing this policy and create a bus/taxi stop inside the airport, but decided against it after they did an impact study. It was decided that it would put undue pressure on the current system. Clue number 1.

You will also notice the lack of "take public transportation" advertisements in any of the tourist literature or billboards in the tourist areas. Clue number 2.

A cynic or conspiracy theorist may try to claim this is a ploy created by the government and ex-pats alike to force the visitor into paying for charter taxis - that they are somehow in cahoots with the charter taxis to redirect money from unsuspecting route taxi drivers. Well, I suppose they are entitled to think this, but it is no more true than was all the scare about the Y2K bug that was supposed to cripple the planet at the beginning of this century. Back then, I told everyone who was freaking about the Y2K bug to think for one second. Banks had been offering 20-30 year mortgages, and these were running well into the next century since the 70's. You think they didnt anticipate this problem a long time before 1999? Simple reality check.

As with the above, logic will let you understand the truth here and not to give much weight to some uninformed beliefs from others.

Yesterday I was at the Corner Bar in order to count the number of taxis moving by there on the West End. In less than 8 minutes, I counted 13 route taxis and 5 charter taxis pass by. There is a sharp turn there so the taxis must slow down enough for me to read the wording on the taxi. The interesting factor was that only 5 of the route taxis had West End painted on the side. The other route taxis had designations from other areas. While technically they are driving the route illegally, this does show a very simple supply/demand relationship during busy season. The MAJORITY of the route taxis operating during this very short time period were not even supposed to be on that route.

As I have mentioned previously, there are a limited number of route taxis designated for each route, such as the West End (Smith even mentioned the West End designation on the taxi). The increase in demand during busy season in Negril is now encouraging other route taxis to service the West End. In addition to possibly making some of the West End route taxis not be as full as they might have been, all the other route taxis came from other routes. So now they are not servicing their own routes - which of course would have an impact on their route passengers. The local populace that was served by these route taxis are not being served during busy season. There is an impact for those people. This is simple deductive reasoning, no grand conspiracy required.

And then we have the issue of busy vs slow season. As stated, yesterday route taxis went by at a pace of about 1 every 30 seconds. During slow season, this is not the case. Passengers can wait many minutes in order to get a ride, sometimes 15 minutes or more. So, if that single route taxi that passes by is filled with tourists trying to save pocket change on a ride, then they may have to wait an additional 15 minutes before the next ride comes by. To claim there is no impact only means someone is not paying attention to the truth.

As for questioning the source - well, I live here. I have lived in Jamaica for nearly 20 years full time. I have friends who drive route, charter and tour vehicles, so I really have no personal interest in which one makes what money. Negril.com does have tour operators as clients - but they are not being discussed in this thread. Negril.com makes no income from route or charter drivers.

But lets take a second to check the sources of some of the other information. One of the proponents of the idea that there is no impact on the local populace when tourists take route taxis just last year was stating how fun "bike taxis" are to take and that their landlord happens to drive one. I pointed out that there are no legal bike taxis on the island and no visitor should take one. They said they would check with their landlord about this as they wouldnt do something that would put tourists at risk. It is interesting that there was no further defense of the bike taxis, that indeed there are no legal bike taxis on the island. Point here being just because you believe something does not make it so.

To address CarrieBean's comment, just a few years ago there was very little if any information on the internet about the illegal white plate taxis. Negril.com went on a mission to inform visitors to this reality since it had been too long overlooked. Thanks to the efforts of this website, we have educated thousands of travelers to Jamaica about taking only red plated taxis and that information is being spread on websites all over the net. This has happened in just a few years.

While you can think that "it would never be the case" that every single tourist would take a route taxi, the truth is that there could easily be enough of them doing it to seriously change the usefulness of the route taxis for the local population.

[Lola]

Much of what is or is/was built in Jamaica is not designed with visitors in mind - or even if it was, without realizing the future impact, that's why folks travel, to see things that are different than what they already know. This comment makes me think of the sidewalk from the round-a-bout to Winners Plaza - all broken up - rough for anyone to walk on. [/COLOR]

...interesting factor was that only 5 of the route taxis had West End painted on the side. The other route taxis had designations from other areas. While technically they are driving the route illegally, this does show a very simple supply/demand relationship during busy season. The MAJORITY of the route taxis operating during this very short time period were not even supposed to be on that route. During that same time period there were probably several West End taxis driving the Beach Road... Its not just tourists that purchase these diversions, locals do it too. Drivers take care of their personal business while they are out driving, as well. And possibly some of these route cars had been chartered for that particular drive.

So now they are not servicing their own routes - which of course would have an impact on their route passengers. The local populace that was served by these route taxis are not being served during busy season. The off-route drivers are going to pick them up if they come through before an on-route car. There is no timed schedule to adhere to.

And then we have the issue of busy vs slow season. .... So, if that single route taxi that passes by is filled with tourists trying to save pocket change on a ride, then they may have to wait an additional 15 minutes before the next ride comes by. As you stated, this example is for slow season, so not a constant occurrence. Seeing a route car full of tourists could mean that route driver decided to carry them as a charter and not that they picked them up along the way. (I don't see any discussion here that route drivers shouldn't do this - many have 'chartered' signs they keep in their car)... Folks who visit as part of a group of travelers tend to use charter drivers with larger vehicles.

While you can think that "it would never be the case" that every single tourist would take a route taxi, the truth is that there could easily be enough of them doing it to seriously change the usefulness of the route taxis for the local population. 'truth' is a word with different meanings. Is this a verified or verifiable fact?

Since tourism began in the Negril area, Jamaicans from other areas of the island have come to the Negril area to participate in it. Haven't they impacted the public transportation system? Are there more residents in Negril now than there were in the past, also having an impact? Hasn't there been an increase in the number of route drivers over the years to accommodate these changes?

Interesting discussion.

[Rob]

Since tourism began in the Negril area, Jamaicans from other areas of the island have come to the Negril area to participate in it. Haven't they impacted the public transportation system? Are there more residents in Negril now than there were in the past, also having an impact? Hasn't there been an increase in the number of route drivers over the years to accommodate these changes?

Interesting discussion.

Lola,

I am missing the logic in your comments in defense of the idea that visitors to the island have no impact on the route taxi system.

Lets start with the first comment "much of what is or is/was built in Jamaica is not designed with visitors in mind". Say what? The first thing thing a visitor to Jamaica sees is the airport or the cruise docks. BOTH were designed with the visitor in mind. How can you suggest the first thing they see wasnt designed with them in mind. The new highway project, the first roads they travel on, are most certainly designed with tourists in mind. Why else would the first sections to be completed be the road to Negril, and the road to Ocho Rios - both from Montego Bay. All three of these places are major tourist destinations.

Every hotel or resort in Negril was designed with the visitor in mind. Virtually every restaurant in Negril was designed with the tourist in mind. The original charter taxi union, JUTA was designed with the tourist in mind.

The water treatment plant and the sewage system in Negril was designed with the tourists in mind. That is the main reason they were built in the first place. The population of Negril, being around 5000, would have never been enough residents to have the system built to the capacity it was or as early as it was built. And even the sidewalk example you bring up, it was not designed being broken up. When it was designed it was smooth. It only broke up over time. It may be rough to walk on at present, but what makes you think it was designed to be rough to walk on?

The next comments you make are interesting:

1 ) "During that same time period there were probably several West End taxis driving the Beach Road... Its not just tourists that purchase these diversions, locals do it too. Drivers take care of their personal business while they are out driving, as well. And possibly some of these route cars had been chartered for that particular drive."

2) "As you stated, this example is for slow season, so not a constant occurrence. Seeing a route car full of tourists could mean that route driver decided to carry them as a charter and not that they picked them up along the way. (I don't see any discussion here that route drivers shouldn't do this - many have 'chartered' signs they keep in their car)... Folks who visit as part of a group of travelers tend to use charter drivers with larger vehicles."

Both these comments are interesting to me to gain insight into what you are thinking. In the first one you suggest that Jamaicans have an impact on the route taxi system. I have to agree with that - of course Jamaicans have an impact on a system that was designed with them in mind. But if that is true and we both agree that it is, then logic dictates that the impact the tourist has on the system is ABOVE AND BEYOND that of the Jamaicans.

The second comment simply points out that even if the route taxi has decided to carry the tourists as a charter, then there would obviously be one less route taxi on the road at the moment to pick up the local residents. Thus, more impact on the route taxi system by tourists using a route taxi as a charter rather than using a charter taxi in the first place.

This comment "The off-route drivers are going to pick them up if they come through before an on-route car. There is no timed schedule to adhere to." doesnt make much sense to me. What off route taxi are you talking about? And why is it okay for someone who depends on this service daily to have to depend on some off-route taxi that may or may not exist? While there may not be a timed schedule, when you depend daily each year on a service like this to get to work, to pick up your kids, get groceries, etc., then you do become acquainted with the usual time frame to accomplish these trips. If there are less route taxis on your route because they are serving tourists, then your daily routine and schedule will be up set.

And yes, the number of residents in any given area determines the number of route taxis to serve that area. As mentioned, the Negril population is around 5000 residents. When the influx of tourists can increase by 10,000 people in a given week - this DOES have an impact on the system. You can pretend this is not the case, but the facts do not bear this out. The word "truth", as I used it, can be interchangeable with the meaning of the word "fact".

The truth in this situation is that very few, if any, route taxi operators will hesitate to give you a ride and accept your money. But just because they will accept your money does not mean there is no impact on the route taxi system.

As Monk and Big Frank have both pointed out, the charter taxis can be very competitive in price and are always more convenient to use. They take you from point a to point b in a private ride. They stop where you want to stop. They go where you want them to go.

Yes, you can save some pocket change and perhaps buy an extra beer or two with the money you save taking a route taxi and that is your right. There is no law against it. But to think that there is no impact on the system only means you are ignoring the obvious reality. You are not a Jamaican who relies on this system, you are on vacation.

[smith744]

the public transportation bus stop is OUTSIDE the airport on the main road

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

that's not 100% accurate, mi fren

there IS a public transportation route-taxi pick-up point(s) inside the airport area

i've caught route route-taxis from the airport, *INSIDE* on a few occasions

[Rob]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

that's not 100% accurate, mi fren

there IS a public transportation route-taxi pick-up point(s) inside the airport area

i've caught route route-taxis from the airport, *INSIDE* on a few occasions

There are no public transportation pick up locations near the arrival area for visitors coming to the island. There are some in the worker drop off areas as well as the shipping areas - but none where the arriving passengers exit the terminal. The previous government's plan was announced in October of 2011, but nothing came of this plan:

http://go-jamaica.com/news/read_article.php?id=32625

[smith744]

There are no public transportation pick up locations near the arrival area for visitors coming to the island.

not to split hairs,
but it depends on how you define *near*

for me,
it ain't *far*

'bout 1/2-block from the arrival-door

sometimes,
the route-taxi man will drive-pass the arrival-door
and will gladly stop
so passenger can hop in

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm
but that *drive-by* is *probably* "..not designed for the tourist/visitor/foreigner..."

he's probably driving-by,
to pick-up returning residents eh

[captaind]

Nothing like an esoteric discussion about taxis........

Makes an old Freemason get excited.....

[BrenJaLee]

I'm trying to remember the last time I got into a full taxi. If it is close to full, I will wave them on so as to not take a space away from a local. Most times, I'm the first or second in. And I can't remember the last time one was full before I got to my stop either. Never thought twice about being the first one in before. If I'm the first in, they almost always end up pitching me additional services - either taxi, tour or "personal". But once they know it's not my first time at the rodeo we usually just end up having fun conversation.

When I mentioned before about the angry reactions from the white plates, it was when I was on the road clearly flagging down a taxi but if it's after sunset, it's hard to tell if the plate is white or red until they are right there stopping. Then when I said no, a few have gotten a little hostile. This isn't late night, usually just after dinner going back to my hotel (maybe 7 p.m. or so).

[smith744]

I'm trying to remember the last time I got into a full taxi.

lol
lol
lol
lol

me too..!!!...

lol
lol
lol

When I mentioned before about the angry reactions from the white plates, it was when I was on the road clearly flagging down a taxi but if it's after sunset, it's hard to tell if the plate is white or red until they are right there stopping. Then when I said no, a few have gotten a little hostile. This isn't late night, usually just after dinner going back to my hotel (maybe 7 p.m. or so).

those *few* do the psuedo-faux-hositle thing because they didn't get your money.

no biggie
"..water off a ducks back.."

[smith744]

tourists trying to save pocket change on a ride.

lol
lol
lol
lol

i so-love-love-LOVE your choice of words

lol
lol
lol

pocket-change for one person
might be real-money for another

for mi-personally,
like to apply that Jamaican-proverb/saying:::>>> "..every mickle, makes a muckle.."

i look-for and have NO problem picking-up a Jamaican $1.00 coin, or a USofA 1-cent piece
in fact, i'm a VERY-happy vacation-er whenever i find a Ja $1 coin

i'm not a '.big-man.' with long-pockets

so,
it's route-taxis all the time
everytime