Customs Question

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

If you bring an electronic item down for your personal use, customs expects you to take it back with you. If you do not take it back with you, this is not what is keeping with the "personal use" concept (please dont confuse this with something that you can "use up" like soap, shampoo, etc). So yes, if you fail to bring back an electronic item that was declared as "personal use", whether you want to believe it or not, you are breaking the law.

I know about that half of the customs rules - tourists bringing down personal items on vacation. Most questions and answers on this board are focused on that category - for obvious reasons.

But there is a whole other set of customs rules if you are moving there (even half-time) and bringing your household items there. When doing that you are obviously not going to take the items back off the island when you travel back-and-forth between USA and JA. I thought some of the people on this board might have gone thru that and could explain some of THOSE rules to me. I am sure I can't just explain to the customs official that I am engaged and am building a house and bringing down goods that are for my personal use only - not gifts or for resale. I know once married, and we both are eventually "legal" in each others countries - I will be able. But is there something I can do in between those two conditions?

Some people on this board have moved to JA without marrying a Jamaican. I was hoping to get benefit of their experience with customs rules. Or from people who were in the same condition for a while I am in - engaged and/or building a house and therefore wanting to bring down household items - before becoming "official" with a TRN, etc. Maybe there's a bright line - nothing doing before marriage vs all allowed after marriage. But Jamaica just seems like it always has gray areas - if you know where to go and fill out the right forms. That's what I am asking about.

[Sweetness]

Ohio - they are re-selling the TV. Its not for their use.

I bought an "inbetween" 17" model (not old but not flat screen) for $100 in Negril. Hopefully Rob or other local can help more with something that large. I think Sav or Mobay wil have what you want in your range for sure. Most hotels have big flat screens now so they may be able to give you a tip on where to get one. Keith at Westender might be a good contact to network with.......

[RockRobster]

Ohio-let me make sure I understand your last post. You have a home in JA. You want to bring a new TV to JA for your JA house because you can save money buying it in USA. And, as part of the savings, you wont be paying JA taxes on the purchase. The TV isn't destined to leave the island when you do. Isn't this the exact scenario why you should be charged duty on the TV?

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

Ohio-let me make sure I understand your last post. You have a home in JA. You want to bring a new TV to JA for your JA house because you can save money buying it in USA. And, as part of the savings, you wont be paying JA taxes on the purchase. The TV isn't destined to leave the island when you do. Isn't this the exact scenario why you should be charged duty on the TV?

I am marrying a Jamaican and establishing myself and a home down there. The plan is to do what typical snowbirds from Ohio do, except in JA not Florida - live in Jamaica 6mo when it's too cold in Ohio and live in Ohio 6mo when it's too hot in Jamaica. So the TV is for my personal use in Jamaica - not to sell or gift. It's my understanding this is the case where one is not expected to pay duty (when moving personal goods to live in JA)?

If I need to wait until married and established in JA with home, TRN, etc - to be entitled to bring household goods to JA exempt of duty, that is what I am asking about. Or would only my wife be able to return to JA with such goods exempt of duty. I know they have a pretty good limit each trip - I think is either $US600 or $800. But what about me with a TRN?

[Lola]

Wonderful, thanks!

[Sweetness]

Ohio--- ?? OP didn't need a TV. How cool that you are going to split your living - it is my dream too at retirement. I am still learning the runnings in JA and how to respectfully coexist within the wonderful culture.

Last reach I went thru the nothing to declare line as always but because I had large suitcases she made me go thru the other line and get completely searched. It was nerve racking - was questioned on every item I had. I was staying a month so brought extra kitchen items, etc. Had a few color books for the kids I love there (no duty but noted something like "culture" on the paper). I also took down some biz cards for a taxi driver friend - slipped my mind that there might be duty on them and she was puzzled and pissed I didn't admit I had them when she asked what I had in my bags - how much did they cost? - she let me go w/no duty but I was not allowed to even touch anyting in my bags during the search and she meant BIDNESS. Whew - only time I have ever had to do this.

For me, only reason I would carry down things not available in JA (which is not much) or that I prefer (personal items) is if moving there and then I would prob send down a small container - I hate traveling already and the less stress the better for me anyway.

Hey where are you in Ohio? I grew up in Cleveland (Parma, Olmstead Falls, Strongsville). Dad retired from NASA.

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

Hey where are you in Ohio? I grew up in Cleveland (Parma, Olmstead Falls, Strongsville). Dad retired from NASA.

Sweetness - thanks for the Customs story. You're not the only one I heard being told to go thru the other line because of bigger bags than they thought reasonable.
How much convincing did it take that they were YOUR pots and pans - and did they ask if you were going to take them with you when you left?
It's funny you mention the business cards. I got some for my fiance (has a nail shop) in JA and they were outrageously expensive for like just the first 100 - they said others later would be cheaper because the die was already made???? But instead I brought a box of a 1000 down next trip for half the cost. Until you mentioned it now, I didn't think of them even being declared for duty.
I know a few people who put stuff in storage so don't have to take so much every trip - wonder how customs handles that?

Luckily now, I have a place to leave the bulky stuff - pool floaties, snorkel gear, rolling cooler, radio, beach towels, some clothes,... - all brought down one trip at a time. This trip WAS to be the TV - LOL.

Oh yeah - I am from suburb on South side of Dayton, Centerville. But grew up on a farm in Clinton County - a little to the south-east. Wilmington and Blanchester are towns there.
With my previous job I traveled to Cleveland area a lot - great deli's. You must have loved Drew Carey when his show was on. (I loved that Parma song-and-dance they did)

[Sweetness]

LOL yep I loved that show and at the end of the dance they all yelled OHIO......I got to go up last yr and forgot how beautiful the countryside is there.......but I digress

Yes I was grilled about ever single thing in both suitcases. the Kitchen stuff I told the truth and she raised her eyebrows but kept going on and on (did make me show my hotel info showing I was staying a mth). Lucky for me that a JA local was getting it worse than me at the table next to me (go figure?) so she was busy yelling at him. I felt lucky I didn't get charged for anything but did not mind paying if needed. Best of luck as you transition to paradise!

[SweetSue]

Well said Rob. You give us all something to think about. And I am sure it will affect my thinking about what I do or do not bring down in the future.

[Ohio_Buckeye_1]

Believe me, doing construction on a house and planning a wedding to a Jamaican - I support the JA economy more than you'll ever know. LOL.

This is way off-topic from OP, but I'll get out my soapbox for this one reply.

Yes, all gov'ts protect their economy with tariffs - but the usual amounts are a small percent of the value of the item. There are political fights all the time in the USA whether or not to impose them, or to raise them - trying to balance protecting domestic sources vs harming the people by artificially inflating prices. It's the age-old balance of how high do you set prices before you start losing customers. Whole economic classes are taught on this "economic elasticity". If private industry gets it wrong, they lose customers to competitors - if gov't gets it wrong, there are no competitors, but they cause a black market to form. You're starting to see it with cigarettes in the USA (I'm a non-smoker, just talking economics not efficacy).

My opinion is JA has gone way past that line. In Jamaica, the gov't has such bureacracy and adds such a high duty (I have experienced it at over 100% the value of the item with electronics) - that the gov't is standing in the way of improving their economy. Thoses tariffs, taxes, duties, etc are NOT just on us tourists bringing down goods - it's also on the imports sold by retailers. The prices on electronics are double and triple the costs in USA - and those prices aren't charged only to tourists, Jamaicans have to pay them too - that is hardly helping the people. (I focus on electronics because that is what my experience in JA has been with)

Improving their economy and providing jobs would help their people more than any retail jobs protected by tariffs. And around the world, it's lower taxes and smaller bureacracies where economies are flourishing. Yes the gov't needs funds to run - but if they eliminated their excessive bureacracy, they would have a much less bloated gov't to fund.

Back to the black market, In JA you see it with all the corruption in the system. Because the system is so-filled with rules, red-tape, and fees - it's almost become part of the official system for many bureacrats to just fish for "fees to expedite" the process (most of the world calls it bribes). There is so much corruption - the gov't doesn't trust itself to have just one official handle a transaction. Try looking up the rules to bring in imports legally - like a JA business would do. It's why you have to go to agency A for one form, agency B for some approval, agency C to pay the fee, back to agency A with the stamps on the form from B and C - it's mind-boggling. I know the gov't is trying to clean that up, but their first step should be to eliminate what causes that corruption - excessive bureacracy and fees.

To sum it up, I just feel the lion's share of the hiked up prices in JA is due to the duty (aka taxes) and other fees the gov't adds to get their "cut" - not to protect domestic sources or help the people. If I thought paying these dutys was helping the people - I wouldn't complain about it so much. I just feel I am being forced to contribute to keeping the corruption going - and is actually hurting the people in the long run, not helping. I could be wrong, but is my opinion for the above reasons.

This pet peave against paying these taxes/duties has to be put in context. I try to do my part by giving directly to the people - and hate so much giving it to the gov't. When there, I tip my hotel maid every day what my fiance says is too much. I go out of my way to pay people who want to do some service or task for me - that I could really do myself. I would rather do that than just giving to the guys asking for a handout.

Soapbox is put away again.